Mimi,

How can your husband believe in this, when you go off doubting everytime things have a downturn? He is counting on YOU showing him the way...and then sees you waffling as much as him.

You know the truth. The Lord is leading you. Trust that. It is ALL you need. Your husband will fall in line.

Ok, guys.

It did seem to make a difference that I was stronger this morning.

However, he is acting EXACTLY the same as the day he left last time.

Iit's not easy to do some things but are they are necessary for your sanity.

Are YOU acting just like YOU did prior to his leaving the last time?

I suggest that if he leaves, you need to be ready to go to a REAL Plan B and not "Mimi's sorta, kinda Plan B".

OK, Chris.

Be straight up with me.

I can't understand what you are saying.

When I see your posts, they are filled with CAPITALS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
You've had counseling. You've been here long enough, asked enough questions and read enough to know what to do, yet. at times, you still run around like a chicken with her head cut off. ANd that's okay but do it for a bit and then setle down.

Instead of freaking out, stop review what your options are. Think what the best course of action is (not necessarily the least painful in the short term) and then ask Harley and post here to see what everyone thinks of it.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Interesting phone counseling...when's the next one?

Sounds to me like H would like to take the reigns w/S but he's not confident. Hehas sat on the sidelines and seen the mistakes you're making but may not have the ideas to fix it...or knows how to fix it, but doesn't know if it will work or not.

How about being very positive and complementary with H's parenting. See something you think he did right, say "That seemed to work pretty well, mind if I use that next time S does....to me?" Or be humble...and work together. Come to H with problems..."I don't know what to do about S's ....? What should we do?"

H and I appear as though we undermine each other because one of us will be the authoritarian and if that doesn't work the other will sweep in with kindness. It works really well, and we call it "Good cop/Bad cop". We take turns, generally we intuitively know when our place is needed. We've been both (talk about confused kids). We talk about an event after the fact and how WE could have handled it differently. Sort of a debriefing.

POJA works for parenting, and in this situation, it seems essential.

I'm plugging for you! You've got a great guy there, but he doesn't feel so great...how can you show him/tell him?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by mimi1254:

I'll try to calm down.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no "trying' only doing.

Trying is not good enough right now.

You are better and stronget than "I'll try" ....

You WILL calm down because you have the power to do that, and you recognize that it is useful to recovery that YOU remain calm.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Mimi,

OK, I am a FWS....I saw your requests for help on the recovery board....I do have to say that I haven't read your entire story. I am having major depression/guilt/shame this morning, and am somewhat nauseous, so I am going to try to keep this short....

You guys are playing games with each other. He is trying to play games with you saying that you did this, I didn't feel this, yada, yada, yada. He is still in FOG. He is still blaming you.

I am out of fog. I blame only myself for the A. Our M was both our faults. That's the honest to God truth.

If he doesn't take responsibility for making the choice, he is still in FOG.

So that being said, quit trying to "beat" him at his own game. Realize you can't control him. If he does not do what SH suggested about parenting, then do what you normally would do, and next time you converse with Steve, let him know what your H told you. Then your H will have to defend himself.

This whole situation is not going to be "fixed" in one counseling session. Besides, your H is not thinking rationally right now. That's clear. And no - it's not fair for you or your children. But if he keeps up with NC, then he will slowly come out of the fog and begin to really work on the M.

The thing is, he is not ready for recovery yet. He knows he wants to stay with you, but he is so fogged, he is not going to be able to face reality for a bit.

So here's what you need to do. TRUST YOURSELF. Take a good hard look inside, and figure out what YOU need for him to do to stay. CALM DOWN. Start focussing on you for you. Don't expect him to make you happy - work on doing that yourself. From your posts, you are desperate for someone to tell you how to make him do the right thing. The fact of the matter is that noone can.....he is the one that has to. And you, us, SH, etc can't control that.

So try not to LB, try not to tell him what to do, or remind him the SH "said so." Rather, make sure to write down the ways in which he did not follow SH's directions, do the best you can with the situation, and hang on. Continue to get help. Focus on what you want.....and realize that you cannot control him. I know it's hard, and I'm sorry that any of us WSs ever put our spouses in this horrible position. Most of us are too clouded by selfishness and getting our own needs met that we choose not to see the effect and damage that it will cause.

So PLEASE calm down, and come to peace with yourself. Quit doubting your feelings. Accept that what he will do is what he will do. You cannot speed his processing of the A and the M any more than he can make you forget about the A. But start figuring out what you want, and start strengthening yourself to the point where you can say "If I don't get this, then I am not afraid to leave this M and find what I need elsewhere." Think about if you can live like this for the rest of your life? My guess is NO! So use that to be strong and stand up for yourself. But not by trying to beat him at his own mind game. Just out of your own self worth.

Good luck. (So much for short, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

PS - Your H seems to be acting like an ar$$...I don't think many here would disagree. So realize that your feelings about this are not wrong. Trust yourself. Have confidence in yourself. Find your own strength - don't expect him to give it to you.....

And everytime he says something remotely idiotic like that, just think of his face on a donkey's body....and remember that he is just acting like an ar$$!

We can all be ar$$es sometimes....

Good luck, Mimi

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: lost in tx ]</small>

Thanks, Lost in Texas and PEP.

You are helping me to get back to strong. So is Hillary Clinton, my role model, who I just saw on TV. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

He has some antidepressants that he is taking, Pep.

All calm now. We are working together around the house, consulting with each other on where to place things. No R talk.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hillary Clinton, my role model </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are kidding about this, aren't you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I'll make it somehow, though, with God's help. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, is this just a "nice thing to say" or do you have some faith that you are relying on?

Mimi, we all understand the lunacy and fears and sheer terror. But I have to tell you that you cannot do anything to help the situation if you have a meltdown everytime something negative happens. Why? Because the beginning of recovery is frequently two or three steps backwards for every step forward. Until both of you are committed to reconciling, there will be an unbalance amount of "trying." There will be "slips" along the way. The emotional security is non-existant at this point for either of you.

That is why one the two, husband or wife, BS or WS has to shoulder the load for an unfair amount of time. That person has to be the "strong one" in the recovery.

But let's get real here Mimi, are you trying to do this alone or are you trusting Christ to help? Just what was your reference to God all about?

Mimi, here's the cold hard fact. Your husband is already gone. If you want to have a chance to recover, you are going to have to decide to be the one who "carries the load" despite how you are feeling. Despite all the thoughts of just "throwing in the towel." Despite all the hurts and pains. They are all real. Your emotions are all real. But you cannot let them control your actions or you have already lost.

So when I say, "get a grip", I mean get a firm focus on what your objective is and what you are willing to do and to endure in order to achieve your objective.

God bless.

Hey, Hillary (no matter what you think of her politics) is in our sisterhood, she deserves respect for coping with her WS under the eyes of the nation.

Mimi, just wanted to say... as many other posters have said, this recovery business ain't easy. Take a deep breath now and calm down. Start by remembering one thing- your husband is at home. That counts for a lot. People tend to favor inertia. They don't like change. All this moving back and forth is difficult and stressful for them.

The withdrawal syndrome is real and difficult and must be gotten through. I went through this myself... my H broke it off, then there was about 6 weeks of continued contact. (I didn't help things by falling out of my plan A and completely lovebusting him about the A.) When I found out about the continued contact, I said that's it, leave. And that was the end of it. He never called again.

I had the advantage that my H did not want to leave, face the questions of others, disappoint my inlaws and worst of all, hurt our 3 young children. Also my H's affair was long distance and had only been going on for seven months.

After that ending, for several weeks my H continued to say that he wanted to move out, he was going to get a place and live alone etc. He would say, I think we should have a trial separation, and I would say, no I think it is a bad idea. Little by little things got better.

9/11, which happened about 2 months after the end of the affair, was a big wakeup call for him, we went through it together. He was truly glad that he was home with his family during that terrible time. But the first year post A was very very hard.

In the case of your H, there are a few things you need to do. 1) avoid R talk, focus on your plan A-just doing some fun stuff together, doing stuff as a family 2) you have to be strong and don't let him see that you are scared of him leaving. Don't let him abuse you verbally. Walk away from him and tell him you will discuss it with him later when he wants to have a respectful conversation 3) I recommended before--- give him a taste of his own medicine. If he is abusive, take a break from him for a day, leaving him with your son. (Always let him and son know where you are). Tell him you need rest and calm to soothe your soul. I did that one night, went and stayed with my sister. It blew my H's mind, and catalyzed him to break up with OW.

Your H will freak if he thinks you might bail out of his life and leave him to cope with your son. Believe me, that is NOT in his plans. He's not imagining mixing OW and son in the same room.

4) Do the counseling!!! and try to find a good family counselor.

The fact that he went back to you is going to piss off OW. The longer he stays the more she will lovebust.

Hoping and praying for you Mimi- remember it is a long road.

espoir - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hey, Hillary (no matter what you think of her politics) is in our sisterhood, she deserves respect for coping with her WS under the eyes of the nation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With all due respect, Hillary was, and is, nothing more than an enabler. She has been aware of Bill's infidelities for years and years but she is so totally focused on her own attainment of power she allows/allowed it as a means toward her own end. Their's is NOT what I think, IMHO, any of us here would want for a "definition of marriage."

Then there's the issue of her own probable infidelity. Can we call this an "open marriage" meant to serve the goal of political power? It's better to be married than single in the world of politics. The Clintons have always been about their personal quest for power. So if being a self-serving dominatrix is what you want as a role model, have at it.

If you want her in your "sisterhood", more power to you. But neither Hillary nor Bill would rank much higher than the bottom of the pit as examples of how to have a loving, God-honoring, marriage.

So what else would you tolerate as "okay" in your marriage? Think about it.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

I guess I can attribute it to him being irrational right now.

A lot of the time he is himself and talks reasonably.

I am having the hardest time with when he makes "cruel" statements like "I hate my kids and don't want to have anything else to do with them. Why don't you support me in that?" This is making me think "Who is this man that I am with?" Did the OW support him in his hatred of his family?

Behaviorally, he is definitely here and is doing nesting behaviors around the house. We are both off this week. He refuses to go out to the movies or anything. He seems to want to be stuck in his anger.

Then, he slips out of it for awhile and acts normal, apologizes for his statements.

It's the flip-flopping that's confusing.

I'm hanging in there. Espoir and Pep, I can't really get away. I had some minor surgery and can't drive. Really trying to focus on building up my self-esteem again, not letting him tear me down.

Mimi,

Bumping you up...checking on you.

How are you doing?


*S*

SPARKLE:

Please give me a hint to who you are. Male or Female? Check me out on OH HAPPY DAY!!! topic.