Never mind my situation. I've posted elsewhere. I want to keep this short and sweet in hopes of getting some responses that will make sense to me.

How can my WS possibly love me and still carry on with the OW, with full knowledge that it just kills me? To me that is not love. Please help! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

(And if you use the word "fog" in your reply, please go into more depth. I need to know the answer to this. I am ready to throw in the towel.)
Thanks, you all are AWESOME!!!

He can say it because he believes he is making sense. He thinks he is being truthful, honest and clear. In reality he is being selfish, deceitful and babbles a lot.

Now play back to him the same situation with different names of people he is familar with or you can give some MB examples here. You will find he will make excuses why the other WS babble is wrong and their's is unique/special.

Of course as a result in their little p-brain, you the BS just 'does not understand'.

So he will say more foolish, inconsistent, hurtful and babbling statements. He may even start to use this warped logic on others.

Like the emperor's new clothes.... he will look, walk, talk and sound like a F _ _ l.

L.

I think it has to do with them being confused about their "wants". They call it love, because that's what it feels like to them, but what they are doing is not loving, what they are doing is "getting" for themselves what they want.

From you, they still want the home and all the comforts that come with that - hot meals, clean shirts, kids taken care of, the home they have built with you - but they have found this little added extra something that is like a shot of adreneline in the arm. Its exactly like an addiction - they are shooting up in secret behind the garden shed. Of course, they can say they still love you, because you are still meeting basic needs for them, and they want those, without having to give up the new "high".

They have become selfish people without realizing it - THEY think they are giving - giving to a wife, AND a lover, and that makes them feel great for a while. In reality, they are taking from everyone and giving nothing. Love affairs masquerade as "giving", when the reality is they are sucking the life out everything. Love affairs turn everything on its head and, to the WS, make bad look good and good look bad.
This is what is commonly referred to as "fog".

I noticed this in the conversation I forced on my H when I asked him to leave. My H was well into his 2nd EA in a year, and 6 weeks after D-day, I had had it with his lying. But my H, because he was not yet physical with her, was labouring under the delusion that they were just friends, and that made it OK. I said to him "these "friendships" you have had with OW1 and OW2 are not like the friendships you have with X and Y" (women friends of his - professional colleagues and wives of friends). I said "You laugh and joke and exchange e-mails with Y, but you don't have that kind of R with her, nor am I jealous of her, nor have I ever been jealous of her. You wouldn't have this kind of R with her." H said "Well, I wouldn't, would I, because she's married!" It somehow totally bypassed his consciousness at that point that he was married. LOL And that the reason why he wouldn't have that kind of R with a married woman would be because he would be betraying the woman's husband, and hurting her marriage. So how come it didn't work in the reverse? How come the girl he was having an EA with wasn't hurting his wife and hurting his marriage?

See, the person in the fog sees only one side - his side. He has compartmentalized the BS out of the picture, especially if she hasn't found out yet. It's a "what she doesn't know can't hurt her" scenario until D-day. Then it's a terrible mental scramble to justify and excuse their selfishness.

For us - I think it was that conversation that twisted something in him - he stopped dead when those words fell out of his mouth. He was frustrated and angry with me. I had the sense to say nothing, but he was hoist on his own pitard, as they say. He got himself into counselling that week, which is the only reason why I stayed with him. We went through a lot of Hell after that, but we are still together, and now working on loving each other in small ways every day.

I hope this helps.

LIR

Thanks, Orchid and Lady, What you say makes a lot of sense. I can see how he has an altered reality and how he can only see HIS pespective.

But, given the nature of this, how could he possible love ME when this is how he sees reality? I mean, I know I offer the comfort things, stability etc. But that is not love. Love makes it impossible to knowingly hurt someone, right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SusanBT:
<strong>Thanks, Orchid and Lady, What you say makes a lot of sense. I can see how he has an altered reality and how he can only see HIS pespective.

But, given the nature of this, how could he possible love ME when this is how he sees reality? I mean, I know I offer the comfort things, stability etc. But that is not love. Love makes it impossible to knowingly hurt someone, right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Susan,
In his mind, he is the 'same man, H and father'. In reality he lost the H title and is now a WS. As for being a man, he may be physically a man but many of us have 'seen the alien'. They are not human in their emotional and mental state. That is why it confuses the BS, family and friends so much. Looks like, walks like, smells like (this can change), kinda talks like (this also can change), same fingerprints, knows all family members, info etc. but HE ISN'T THE SAME PERSON you once knew. Sound familar?

A former poster used to call them aliens from the mothership. I am not sure what they look like without the human shape but it is scary. Of course this is just our vivid imagination's way of explaining their weird behavior but it sure comes close.

Once I realized my WS was like that, became much eaiser to detach myself from his words and not be as emotional to his statements.

I would tell the WS when he spoke that way, that his talk confuses me and he needed to come back when he could speak in English and stop babbling because it just was not making sense. Yep I said that. By that time even the MC, my cousin and his family could see his babble, so I was not alone in this conclusion.

I would also tell the WS (not a lot but sometimes), that I loved him but right now I just couldn't understand his hurtful words, they made no sense. Maybe he had learned a 'new language' and he needed to get me the babble dictionary. In fact he started speaking just like the OW! That was scary. You see I hardly spoke to the OW and at that point had never met her but I could tell through her e-mails how she communicated. He even whined a few times like the OW would whine to him in her e-mails and phone messages. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> YIKES! Share that piece with your H.

When he says that, ask him what is he doing to show he is being loving and what is he not doing?

L.