Thanks to all of you who've given me so much help here these past 13 months.

I'm feeling particularly DOWN this weekend.

This week marked three years since ExH moved out of the house. That's a long time.

I've been asking him to work on the marriage/relationship with me for 2 years, six months. The answer has been no. He never asked me to end it with exOM, although I finally did end it 15 months ago. I would have sooner, if he'd indicated he wanted to work on the marriage. Let me try and explain this, I know it sounds awful-- His lack of interest in trying to save the marriage told me he didn't care too much, although I realize that was wrong of me to think that. I don't blame him at all, but let me repeat that when a BS shows so little interest in saving a marriage, the WS in her/his fog state often feels that the BS doesn't feel much of a loss. In my case it made me feel like, "See, he doesn't love me."

ExH asked me out to dinner 1 1/2 year ago, then he 'took it back', and retracted the offer.

This summer, at the end of July, he told me he'd take 'baby steps' towards being around me more. He said he was actually 'considering' a reconciliation.

He did come around more in August, and helped with household things.

Three weeks ago he told me that he felt 'nothing' for me, not a bit of chemistry. (I'd asked him for a supportive hug, after our son's surgery! I wasn't wanting it for sexual purposes. ) I suggestedb at that time that perhaps we should do something alone, without the kids, as a 'baby step'. He mentioned going out to dinner that upcoming week, but it's not happened. He hasn't mentioned it again.

He joined us in a celebration last weekend. It went very well, so I thought. He called twice this week from a business trip to speak with the boys. The first time, He said to me as I answered the phone.."Is so and so there?" He didn't say 'hello', nothing. I started a thirty second conversation, but that was it. The next time he called, he did say, "Hi. Is so and so there?" So at least I got that much.

He mentioned 'baby steps' in July. I feel there were some for awhile, followed by more withdrawal. Is this normal?

I'm beginning to feel as if this hoping and longing on my part is all hopeless. Sorry, but that's how I feel. We've been divorced over a year already. He moved out over three years ago, as of this past week.

Does hanging on to this make me a complete fool?

He obviously doesn't miss me, need me, or want me. He's said there's no love there. Yet, the next day after he said that...it was "considering" a reconciliation--followed up by little, if nothing.

Please understand that I'm using this forum to share my feelings, as I know many here understand the pain of all of this. I so need your insights!

It dawned in me during the night. Can't a former WS have a depletion of her love bank for the former BS, simply by not having any 'love deposits' for so long. After a while, self-preservation comes in to mind. This sort of long term rejection/igoring gets hard. I'm not saying it's happened to me, but I can where it could.

I guess I need to again ask him about the dinner, or some other activity. All suggestions, ideas are welcome.

Some friends in my 'real' life have told me that in their opinion I shouldn't bring up the dinner at all. Let it go, they say. They also kindly said, "Someday he'll wake up and realize what he lost in all of this, by not forgiving you and reconciling." Maybe so, but at this point it seems that he is happy this way. So be it, I say.

I'm not giving up, but I really could use some thoughts, ideas, or a pep talk this day.

Is it time for H_P to confront him on all of this, and draw my line in the sand? Or, should I continue this 'waiting game'. Espoir had a timeline idea-of my own-- I like that one. How much more time would you linger and wait? Thanks for your input.

GOd bless,
H_P

H_P,

{{{Hug}}} Wanted to let you know that I read your post and you ask some heavy duty questions that require a bit of thought before I respond (I have a sinus headache so I am a bit clouded with pain). But I will check back later today, ok? I have some thoughts formulating but want to put it down in a concise manner (is that even possible for me - LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) .

I believe that if our WS reacted as quickly as you did and had your attitude, more w/b in recovery. Don't think your H appreciates that and there is what I need to think about.

Will check back later.
Hang in there ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

H_P

Oh, dang it's Sunday again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Listen, I too have some thoughts, but it is late here and I need to get some rest, but know that I am thinking of you.

I had one of those days too - sadly I binned my BF and then had the girls round and heard way toooo much info on Pound Man. Need to get some shut eye and it will all seem brighter tomorrow.

Take care, please don't get too despondent

Thinking of you.

Lisa

hopeful

Love dies in inactive accounts....it really doesn't matter who is the betrayed or wayward spouse.

Now understandably shortly after discovery almost no betrayed spouse is going to make any love deposits.

But over time the need to go from stop making withdrawals to making small deposits and finally making the normal deposits any couple wanting to be happily married would make.

You have a pretty long time line for trying to reconcile.

Perhaps you shuold make one more good faith try with the idea that if he nixes the idea then you move on with your life.

There is a good chance he is not motivated to reconcile because he hasn't really considered losing you forever.

H_P,

You said and asked a lot of things. I thought I might try to answer some of them. One thing I beleive you need to understand is that part of me wants to tell you to move on and make yourself happy, and part of me feels that you would be happiest if you perservered and got back with your exH. I will in my answers point out again that your expections and view of things is not considering what he say and felt during your A. My comments are not meant to condem you but to hopefully help you see things from his point of view. I am sure I am not going to give you good answers, because those will only come from you and your exH. But, I hope that I can help you focus your thinking indirections that are productive and useful.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks to all of you who've given me so much help here these past 13 months.

I'm feeling particularly DOWN this weekend.

This week marked three years since ExH moved out of the house. That's a long time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is trigger time and you need to realize it. It may be trigger time for your exH as well. Please consider this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been asking him to work on the marriage/relationship with me for 2 years, six months. The answer has been no. He never asked me to end it with exOM, although I finally did end it 15 months ago. I would have sooner, if he'd indicated he wanted to work on the marriage. Let me try and explain this, I know it sounds awful-- His lack of interest in trying to save the marriage told me he didn't care too much, although I realize that was wrong of me to think that. I don't blame him at all, but let me repeat that when a BS shows so little interest in saving a marriage, the WS in her/his fog state often feels that the BS doesn't feel much of a loss. In my case it made me feel like, "See, he doesn't love me."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, let's do a little reconstruction here. I apologize if I get some of the times wrong. You were in an A for two years before your exH separated from you, AND HE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE A when he left. This suggests that the marriage had become so toxic to him that he would leave a W you claim he was loving to, and children he clearly loved. His life was so miserable that he felt the need to leave WITHOUT knowing that there was another man in your life. Think about that.

Next, you offer to reconcile with him, but OM is still in your life and in fact moves to be near you during this time period. Let's see if we could reconstruct his thinking here, I know it is a DJ to do this, but consider. His recent memories of the marriage are bad, OM is still in your life, and you are talking about reconcilling. I can see him thinking: "I was born at night, but not LAST night."

Further, if he had been posting here, we or certainly I would have been recommending that he NOT have any contact with you nor try to reconcile with you UNTIL OM was gone: Plan B.

OM was NOT gone until the divorce, slightly over 15 months ago. His lack of interest in saving the marriage probably had a lot more to do with how you were treating him BEFORE the separation than the A did. He may or may not have connect those two things. Your treatment and the A. Nevertheless, he had little reason to work on the marriage, or want back what he had left. Your A was just part of the explanation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ExH asked me out to dinner 1 1/2 year ago, then he 'took it back', and retracted the offer.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He wasn't ready. But, he has eaten with you and been around you since.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This summer, at the end of July, he told me he'd take 'baby steps' towards being around me more. He said he was actually 'considering' a reconciliation.

He did come around more in August, and helped with household things.

Three weeks ago he told me that he felt 'nothing' for me, not a bit of chemistry. (I'd asked him for a supportive hug, after our son's surgery! I wasn't wanting it for sexual purposes. ) I suggestedb at that time that perhaps we should do something alone, without the kids, as a 'baby step'. He mentioned going out to dinner that upcoming week, but it's not happened. He hasn't mentioned it again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He isn't going to have any feelings for you until you reach the status of friend. I think right now you have the status of Mother of his children.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He joined us in a celebration last weekend. It went very well, so I thought. He called twice this week from a business trip to speak with the boys. The first time, He said to me as I answered the phone.."Is so and so there?" He didn't say 'hello', nothing. I started a thirty second conversation, but that was it. The next time he called, he did say, "Hi. Is so and so there?" So at least I got that much.

He mentioned 'baby steps' in July. I feel there were some for awhile, followed by more withdrawal. Is this normal?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds pretty normal for someone in withdrawal from you and absolutely afraid to get burned again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm beginning to feel as if this hoping and longing on my part is all hopeless. Sorry, but that's how I feel. We've been divorced over a year already. He moved out over three years ago, as of this past week.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Three years of things burning in his soul is a long time. He need to let it out. I suspect but I am not confident in what I am going to say, that he needs to you to confront him, get into his face and demand that he explain what he is thinking and why? I mean a really ugly nasty fight, what will hurt you both a lot. That might break down the wall, and it might to start to let the poison out. But, it might end his or your interest in working this out.

Frankly, a good counsler such as the Harley's might really help you develop a strategy, and I think given where you are that you need to spend some money and counsel with them as to your strategy. You will NOT sleep well the rest of your life if you don't address this, and I think they or some other good professional, perhaps Cerri is your best bet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does hanging on to this make me a complete fool?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not only are you NOT a fool,it makes you quite a woman in my eyes. Remember he hung on for roughly two years, and then found out about the A. I suspect he simply gave up hope at that point. And to this day he has no hope. He hasn't been dating anyone else, suggesting that he is very very wounded on the inside.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He obviously doesn't miss me, need me, or want me. He's said there's no love there. Yet, the next day after he said that...it was "considering" a reconciliation--followed up by little, if nothing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He may or may not, but think how long he has to go back to find the you that he would miss? I would say he has reached an accomdation internally to protect himself and allow him to be able to deal with the children and be around you. But, his lack of dating suggest a real loss of hope for himself. Remember it has only be a little over a year since you have had a man in your life, it has been 3 years since you were in HIS life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please understand that I'm using this forum to share my feelings, as I know many here understand the pain of all of this. I so need your insights!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is clearly understood, but I am thinking you really might want to spend some money and get the pro's on your side.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It dawned in me during the night. Can't a former WS have a depletion of her love bank for the former BS, simply by not having any 'love deposits' for so long. After a while, self-preservation comes in to mind. This sort of long term rejection/igoring gets hard. I'm not saying it's happened to me, but I can where it could.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely your LB can be depleted. It was depleted apparently when you started your A, although you still claimed to love your H. My problem with that statement is that without knowing of the A he left, suggesting that your treatment of him wasn't consistent of what you now think you felt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I need to again ask him about the dinner, or some other activity. All suggestions, ideas are welcome.

Some friends in my 'real' life have told me that in their opinion I shouldn't bring up the dinner at all. Let it go, they say. They also kindly said, "Someday he'll wake up and realize what he lost in all of this, by not forgiving you and reconciling." Maybe so, but at this point it seems that he is happy this way. So be it, I say.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can see why your friends would suggest such a thing. You would be happier if you gave up. But, you need to understand something, your H can and probably has forgiven you, but that doesn't mean he isn't petrified of what you could do to him again.

Long term I suspect you would be much happier with your exH than anyone else for a whole host of reasons, so you have sort of a short term, long term issue to address within yourself. You two are no longer married, so you owe him nothing at this point, and he owes you nothing at this point.

But there still unsettled issues aren't there?? That is why I am recommending the Harley's at this point.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not giving up, but I really could use some thoughts, ideas, or a pep talk this day.

Is it time for H_P to confront him on all of this, and draw my line in the sand? Or, should I continue this 'waiting game'. Espoir had a timeline idea-of my own-- I like that one. How much more time would you linger and wait? Thanks for your input.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I don't know if I delivered a pep talk. I don't think so, but I do think there is hope, but this is going to be slow. Recovery often takes two years, suggesting that is how long it takes couples to forgive one another, and HEAL from what has happened. You are not at the two year mark.

I wish I could offer more, but right now I don't know what to say. I would ask him to dinner if I were you though. You take a few steps. Yes, I know you run the risk of pushing him and being rejected, but given his adjustments in his life, I think you are going to have to be the one to start cracking that wall. He may come along later and start taking it down.

Must go, I hope you find some peace this weekend.

God Bless,

JL

Hi H_P,

Sorry to find you so down. I have seen that Sundays are bad for you so don't make any quick judgements in your condition. I would however like to give you some ideas, not advice.

You have to remember H_P you cannot make your husband do or think anything. I know you love him deeply and try to show it but you cannot do any more than you are doing. Don't beat yourself up because of it. Let that part of it go. You can only do what you feel you want and need to do. If you put conditions and time-lines on him, it won't work. If you want to show him you love him DO IT, but, you are going to have to release him from YOUR expectations.

I don't know what is going to happen with you and your Ex, noone, does. There are things you can do to help bring about your desired outcome, the things you are doing. But the rest is up to him. If you don't want to try anymore, don't. No one would blame you. But if you want to keep trying, do it. But IMHO the only way you are going to be able to do that is to let go of the intensity you feel to bring this to a conclusion. You will always have contact with your H, because of your children. I don't think there is any way he could not have feelings for you, but, obviously he isn't ready yet. That doesn't mean he couldn't be soon, but it also means he may never be. Can you accept that? If you can I would encourage you to continue. But if you can't I worry about the affect this has on you. I am not telling you to move on. You can't do that until YOU are ready.

It's okay H_P you are a wonderful person, you are trying hard to get back what you lost. Take pride in that and be happy. Yes you messed up, but it is not all on your shoulders. It isn't too often someone messes up a marriage on their own. And don't get down about all the BS here who are so forgiving, I am sure there are plenty out there who aren't, you just don't find them here.

Keep your chin up and try not to be so hard on yourself. Someday things will be right again. Believe that.

Take care freind,

Sharon

Thanks to all of you for your heartfelt replies.

I'd like to comment on each of them, but it'll have to wait for later on tonight after the workday, etc...is done.

Thanks again for your support and caring, it means a lot to me.
H_P

H-P,

Before you despair, I think you need to do some of the things I suggested in my last post.

Draw up your timeline.
Draw up your plan.
Remember consistency. Consistency builds trust.

I suspect that in the case of your H, you will end up taking to the end. Meaning you may have these steps forwards and backwards, and you will reach the end of your timeline and you will say to him- I give up. That may galvanize him into action. Or he may let you go. But I think it is very easy for him to sit back right now and let you do all the work.

Re: the phone calls. I would suggest you tackle it with your H. Tell him it hurts you when he calls and doesn't even greet you with a polite hello. See if his telephone manners improve. Don't demand this of him, and don't suggest that he "owes" you this as part of a relationship. Only bring it up if he does it again.

for example-

H: Is X there?

HP: Yes, but gosh, it does hurt my feelings when you call and don't even say hello to me. Let me go get X now.

Another tactic to consider could be:

H: Is X there?
HP: Oh hi H! it's HP.
H: I know.
HP: Oh I thought you didn't realize it was me, you didn't say hello. Let me go get X.

Thanks again to all who've replied here. I'm mentally forming my reply, will write hopefully tonight!

Work has been keeping me overly busy, and I've had to work on reports at home in the evening--no time to respond here.

On top of this, exOM called last night. First 3 weird hang-ups when son #2 answered, and then when I answered he asked for me. I promptly hung up. I had no whistle handy, as suggested here. This is the first call since early August, and before that it'd been a year.

Off to another busy day including a post-workday dinner meeting.

Thanks again, I'll write later.

NO contact w/exH in many ,many days now. Still dreaming of him, which is a combination of good/sad--when reality hits the good goes to sad.

Take care,
H_P

H_P - how funny, I just came back to post a proper reply, and you were there, but I had to log in, spooky cross-cosmic ocean thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Firstly, I hope you're feeling a bit better this week. My first suggestion to you is get a hobby that you go out and do something on Sundays. Visit with a friend, go shopping, have a run, go to the gym, do something different and break your Sunday routine. It inevitably leaves you sad and pondering.

OK, what to do? I think both Espoir and JL have some excellent thoughts, but then they usually do. Firstly, as JL has pointed out to you quite often, your timescale of events is probably quite different from that of your H. Please just bear this in mind when you think you have not been moving forward at all and the length of time you have put into trying to recover your M.

Secondly, I agree with Espoir, I think you need to have your own idea of what is acceptable to you, and only you can really decide what that is, no-one can advise you. Realistically, how long can you continue with your effort without your LB draining dry, because in answer to that question, I think inevitably it will? Especially with the way in which your XH sometimes responds to you. Me, I think it is plain rude, that he doesn't even say "Hello H_P can I speak to X". I can understand why this upsets and frustrates you, but again some excellent advice from others about changing the status quo of this.

H_P, this isn't easy, and no-one ever told you it would be when you came here. Some days look positive and hopeful, some days seem bleak and worthless. But what it seems like to me is that you have many more positive incidents occuring than the negative. I know they are very very small steps, but that has changed and is an improvement since you first came here.

What else to do? I don't know really, others here are so much better at this than me. I just want you to know that we all support you and care about you, whatever you do H_P.

Take care
Lisa, in very bright sunny, still quite warm, London!!

Thanks, Lisa.

I still haven't had a chance to sit here and write out a reply to all of the kind folks who've responded. I'm overwhelmed at work, and with an important project right now for my parents. I appreciate your time and efforts, and I will respond soon.

Hope you're having a grand weekend. I'm taking Lisa's advice and have a full day planned. No time to sulk and think of my losses , and the losses of my kids, and exH.

Take care, more later....
HP