We just found out that a BIL and SIL just seperated. She says she's still in shock, it all happend out of the blue...and that he said he needed some space to think.

Big red flags here...dontcha think?? And I've told her as such. I immediatly ordered HNHN and Lovebusters, and, upon her ok, am going to send her SAA. I also directed her to the main MB website. I'm only hoping I haven't overwhelmed her with too much info all at once. But I'd rather have her informed, than divorced.

I've written a letter to her husband...our BIL. I'm not even sure it's appropriate at all...and am looking for some advice from you wise posters. Please help me edit or add as needed...or tell me to leave it alone.

The letter follows:

J&M,

I apologize for possibly overstepping some boundries by writing you this letter…but after everything that H and I went through, and all the time I’ve spent over the past 4 years researching and learning about marriages…I felt the need to atleast make my plea.

You know that H and I almost divorced. We tried counseling and we read books. It seemed so hopeless. I truly believed my husband could never be enough for me, and that our marriage could never be fulfilling. Just 2 weeks before our marriage was to end, the reality of my life hit like a ton of bricks. I was lucky enough to get one last chance. Our marriage is more than I ever dreamed we could have. Needless to say, what we went through made a believer out of me. I don’t believe that any situation is unchangeable and hopeless…unless extreme abuse is involved. Marriages that make it through these troubled times are far far stronger than any relationship that’s built only on good times and good feelings.

My biggest worry was our son. I didn’t want him to suffer for our failure. I was adamant that H and I would have an amicable relationship for the good of our son. It sounds great. But enter in other people. And eventually there will always be other people. The mere thought of having another woman have a say in the raising of my son blew amicable right out the window. H was convinced that if I found a new husband, son would forget about him and start calling the new man daddy. The loss of the little things, like kissing my son goodnight every night, getting to celebrate all the holidays, sharing all the little daily things. When I signed up to be a parent I signed up for it EVERY day and EVERY night with a few nights and weekends off…not part time. But that’s what you’ll get if you get divorced. I know you also want only the best for your children.

I remember how painful it is to feel lost and disillusioned…to feel like there’s no end to your pain and frustration. I also know how good it feels to have someone else appreciate you and tell you that you deserve more…someone that seems to see only the good in you. But that’s the problem. It’s an illusion…an escape. We are all human…and no matter how good we really are…at some point, someone is going to be sick of us That realization comes too late for many people. Their worlds come crashing down around them and only when they hit rock bottom do they realize that the course of their life could have been changed…they didn’t have to lose their family, the respect of friends, and many of their assets. Marital reconciliation is difficult…it’s not fun…and it’s not instantly rewarding. But it’s a viable solution. When you run away from your problems, they inevitably catch up with you again down the line. Because most of life’s difficulties stem from US…ourselves…and no matter how far you run, you’re always there. Justification and blame only go so far in easing guilt…eventually it too catches up with you and you will see what part you played in your marital issues.

Divorce is just not a very good solution. Especially when children are involved, the same issues that led to your marital problems, will filter through in to parenting issues. Hopelessness, resentment and depression are all curable issues. The marriage itself does not cause them…the lack of solutions and skills to negotiate within the marriage do. Without those things, any future relationships will eventually be doomed to the same fate. Being a businessman I would think you see the problem there. Any answer that doesn’t permanently repair the problem isn’t actually a solution…it’s a temporary fix.

From Divorce Busting:

“Do not get sidetracked by pessimism and hopelessness. Hopelessness is a reasonable response to an unreasonable solution. Nothing more, nothing less. It is natural for people to feel pessimistic when, day after day, month after month, nothing is solved. Feelings of pain and rejection are always present. I am convinced that pessimism and hopelessness are feelings based on past performances; feelings that are changeable, feelings worth changing. People can and should stay together and work out their differences.”

“I have heard countless divorced couples battle tenaciously over the very same issues they believed they were leaving behind when they walked out the door. They learned too late that the act of divorce does not free them from their ex-spouse’s emotional grip.”

“60 percent of second marriages end in divorce”

“Research shows that except in extreme cases of abuse children want their parents together. Children have no say in a decision which profoundly affects them for the rest of their lives. When parents decide to end a marriage, it means the death of a family. As the family disintegrates, a child’s sense of comfort and security becomes shaken. … I’ve met children of all ages who, even after both parents re-marry, secretly hope their own parents will, someday, reunite. Many well-adjusted adults whose parents separated or divorced when they were children admit an emptiness that never goes away. Most parents recognize that divorce will impact on their children, they just don’t anticipate the lasting effects. In regard to this, I’ve heard too many divorced parents say, “I wish I knew then what I know now.” Gradually, I have come to the conclusion that divorce is not the answer. It doesn’t solve the problems it purports to solve. Most marriages are worth saving.”

I understand that you are currently separated. It sounds like it occurred rather unexpectedly and that you felt the need for some space to think. That’s often a sign that someone is having an affair. If I’m wrong…then I apologize for the assumption. But more than 70% of marriages are afflicted by infidelity, so it wouldn’t be unique or rare by any means.

Marriage Builders says:

“The unsuspecting jilted spouse usually senses a problem when an affair begins. For one thing, an affair usually takes up quite a bit of time, and all sorts of excuses are given to be away from home -- having to work late, impulsive trips to the store and unexplained absences from work -- they all become more and more difficult to believe. Telephone records and credit card receipts are carefully hidden, for if they are found, they will often reveal the scope of the affair.

When the spouses are together, an emotional distance usually prevails. Sex is almost always a problem for women who are having an affair, and many men having an affair find they cannot make love to their wives, either. In many cases, intimacy in marriage becomes so bad that a separation is requested to "sort things out." An affair is often suspected by the jilted spouse, but almost always vigorously denied by the offending spouse. It usually takes solid evidence, to get an unfaithful spouse to admit the truth.

I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.

Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings.”

EVERY marriage goes through down cycles. Cycles of turmoil and conflict. Times where many of neither partners needs get met. It’s easy to become susceptible to praise and admiration from another. People rarely go LOOKING for someone else to sweep them away…yet it happens all the time. Next thing you know you’re feeling things you may have NEVER felt for your spouse and you feel more alive than ever. You start thinking that your marriage must have been dead for some time, and you become resentful for being taken for granted all these years. And this other person admits that they too have never felt this way before…you’re soul mates…yadda yadda yadda… Sadly it’s rather text book. I’ve spent 2 years mentoring on a site that helps people who are going through infidelity. Every wayward spouse feels their situation is unique…this other person is different…their partnership WILL WORK. Yet merely 1% of infidelity partners ever actually get married, and 60% of those marriages end in divorce too. Pretty bad odds to gamble entire lives on.

I apologize if this doesn’t fit your situation, but I felt the need to address it in case it was an issue. Because I’ve seen too many people fall in to infidelity and then blindly follow the path to divorce, thinking their situation is unique, believing that their marriage is hopeless and that their feelings will never change. The scary thing is that the feelings can and will change. And one day the divorced wayward spouse wakes up all alone, with no family, fewer assets, and a profound loss of respect from others and most importantly from themselves. It’s a tragic scenario that plays out far too often.

So that’s it. I hope you truly use your time to contemplate the far reaching consequences of your future choices. Regardless of what others may have told you about divorce…most people look back on it with major regrets. I hope you choose a better path. And I sincerely wish you well with whatever your future may hold. If there’s anything we can ever help you with, or any questions we might answer…you know where you can find us. We’re the big happy family, across from the inlaws, at the top of the hill.

Hope4future

<small>[ October 24, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

I think that this is a good idea, although be prepared if you do not get the desired result (complete change in behavior). Remember...FOG.

This does logically lay out what is bad about this decision, however, affairs typically aren't logical.

I still think that this person needs to see this letter. If anything, they need to realize that their actions have consequences.

I think stating you suspect he is having affair will cause him to tune out the rest of your message.

May I suggest you ask him if he is having an affair not that you suspect. Then he will be more willing to read the rest of your letter rather than run it thru the shredder in anger.

Be prepared for him to assume his wife put you up to it.

I agree with SDRF. I would leave the infidelity part out. I am not sure how close you are to them but it might be better to deal with the SIL in the beginning. I know that when my wife wanted space she didn't want to hear anything from anybody that contradicted what she wanted to do.

Did you ask SIL if she is o.k. with the letter?

God Bless

I honestly don't know hope4future. I refrained from posting my "gut instinct" last night and I've thought about this since.

First of all you don't have any proof of an affair right? Just red flags?

You and I were both WS. How do you think you would have taken this letter? I think it may have irritated me and I would have said through my fog that "you didn't understand, my case is different." ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> No one understood me during that horrible time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Also, what if your assumptions are wrong? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My first thought is that you are not going to be able to educate him or change him with this letter. He is going to have to figure this out on his own. It may be a bumpy ride for them for a while.

You can share your experience, but I would much rather that be in person, not a letter and just words on a paper. I'd much rather he be able to see you show him your love and support by looking at you while you talk to him.

What is his wife doing for herself?

Susan

<small>[ October 24, 2003, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

I would hold off on the letter until you are certain of the facts. He doesn't need to be pushed right now, though your intentions are to be commended. You may push him farther away. He may feel that your SIL put you up to it.

I suggest waiting for a few weeks (2-4) until you have more insight. Pray for them and offer support for SIL and rest of family in the meantime.

I've been emailing with my SIL, and I fully planned on getting her approval to send the letter before I'd do anything. I'd have to get his address, for one thing!

I understand that accusing him of infidelity is likely to tune him off to the rest of the letter...at first. But my hope was to shock him, in case...like me, and I think most WS's...he thinks he's being so sly that no one will notice. If I had received a letter like this...I would have been shocked and it would have shown me how obvious my actions really were. I guess that's also why I admit to having done the same thing myself...so that he doesn't think that his wife put me up to it, but might see that I have some experience in seeing those signs. I guess I'd just like to pop a couple of his bubbles.

I'm not deadset on the letter. It felt good to just get it out. Now it can sit in my documents until a little more information comes my way, or for a more right time. I did send SIL the books...she ought to have them today...so maybe she can turn things around. I hope.

Thanks for the thoughts!! I'll ponder it all some more.

<small>[ October 24, 2003, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

H4F,

I don't know about whether or not you should send the letter, but....

from the perspective of a FWH, who still is working on things.....

It's a great letter.

I think a lot of couples need to read it.

Thanks.

Oscar

**Revised letter replaced original post**

<small>[ October 24, 2003, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

Hope prior to all of this were you and your BIL close, civil or barely had contact?

If you were close then I think the letter is a good idea. After that its sort of a crap shoot it my do well it may backfire.

JMHO

No, we weren't really close. Civil with barely any contact would be more accurate. It's not that we don't like one another, it's just that the entire family isn't really close. The SIL and my H were close growing up, but aren't really any more. Meaning they don't see each other often, but they still care very much about each other.

How do you think it might backfire? I know I'm probably blinded by my desire to help...so I'm just not seeing the whole picture. I just see it as a letter of concern, addressing a couple of reality of choices issues, on the offchance they have any bearing. You think he'll take it as an attack???

<small>[ October 24, 2003, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No, we weren't really close. Civil with barely any contact would be more accurate. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a question here...

If you were not that close with barely any contact, why do you have such a strong desire to help them try to fix this now?

Just curious...

Susan

H4F,

People, in general, tend to listen more to people they feel have been there with them through the good and the bad. If you've not had much of a relationship before, offering such strong advice could be received as condescending or judgemental, when you mean it to be caring. Think about it A LOT before you send the letter.

I still think it's a good letter, though.

OtG

H4F:

I'm a bit surprised at the responses you've gotten. Most would have you not send that letter. I wish every potential WS would get such a letter.

I think it's entirely appropriate 2 suggest 2 him that you suspect he might be having an A. Your experience is worth a lot more than "something" in this regard. The main focus I would put would be on his "needing space" remark and reason for moving out. That's a betrayal of his M whether he's having an A, fencing stereos, or hiding weapons of mass distruction. Regardless of the na2re of the betrayal, the simple fact is that he's lying 2 his W. If he weren't, he wouldn't need "space" - separation from her.

If you have 2 change anything in what you've written, I would focus the premise on his "space" remark. Rip that nonsense apart.

-ol' 2long
P.S. The only kind of "space" that would be appropriate for a betraying spouse 2 "have" would be the hard vacuum kind. THAT would take their mind of thoughts of betrayal REAL QUICK. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think the letter was excellent and can't hurt at this point.

Well I just went to lunch with a very dear friend...actually, the friend who was very implimental in me coming to my senses during our marital problems. I talked with her about everything...she knows this couple, went to school with the SIL...and showed her the letter. She suggested a couple of things. Switch the order...putting the information on infidelity towards the bottom of the letter. And send the letter to both the SIL and BIL, making a comment that since I know they are seperated I sent the letter to each of them seperately. That way in NO WAY does it look as if SIL were in on it, and it doesn't single either out.

I like her suggestions.

Why do I have such a strong desire to help if they aren't close?? Are you serious?!? I don't like to see ANYBODY go through this crap. Why do you think I spend what little precious time I have each day trying desperatly to give whatever valuable input I think I can contribute to this board?? It's how I'm wired, I guess.

Plus, just because we aren't CLOSE, doesn't mean I don't care about them. We just aren't close! I like them. It's a family dynamics thing...I didn't set it up that way...it's how the family was structured long before I entered the picture. But this is also H's favorite sister...and I do like her!! I don't want to see her blindsided of there can be some benefit of information and experience from H and I.

I'm not under any impression that my words are going to turn their marriage around. But if I can pop a few fantasy bubbles, and plant a few seeds...then that's my hope. Maybe, at some point, IF he's having an A, those seeds will grow in to a few moments of clarity. If he chooses to see it as a judgemental attack...well...that's his choice! BECAUSE I'm not someone close, he can choose to dislike me all he wants and it doesn't affect my life one bit.

I'm going to sit on the letter a little longer...but I'm leaning very strongly towards sending it...but with the above stated revisions.

Yes! That's what was niggling in my head -- talking to BOTH of them is an excellent idea. They're both responsible for this marriage, and they both have tremendous work to do in order for there to be any chance at all to succeed.

I also think that providing your support to them both is exactly the kind of thing that family should do.

And one more thing: Don't get more involved than that. State what you think is best, offer your support to both of them, but STAY OUT OF IT. They're the only ones who can fix this, even if you support them through every second of it.

Oh, and really, it should be "afflicted," not "inflicted." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yup, and that's exactly what I'm doing. I sent the books to SIL, directed her to this site, and offered our support if she needs it...and will send the letter to BOTH.

Atleast I will sleep at night knowing I tried..knowing I offered the information. What they do with it from there is their choice.

Okay, I replaced the original post with the newly revised letter. I think the flow of it is less threatening...the infidelity issue is listed more as an information, in case it applies, kind of thing. I'll still sit on it a while.

H4F:

Nicely done.

-2long