Why am I sitting here trying to figure out what is going through my WH's mind as if I might find some logic or even acceptance in this mess?

Tell me more about false recoveries. Why would he come back home and say he wants to work on our marriage but never back any of it up w/ actions?

I mean he has led such an independant lifestyle for much of our marriage and he never included me in any of his activities. Most people that he associates w/ wouldn't know what I look like if I was staring right at them. This is what I've had for far too long.

When DDay occured he only seemed half interested in making us work. But when we seperated the first time, he would call or even come over late at night telling me he missed me. This time we are not only seperated but in the early process of divorce. I filed b/c he escalated the verbal abuse and won't send a n/c letter to OW. He just was so angry when he was back home and was giving me nothing to work w/.

Here is my confusion. It seems apparent that he doesn't love me in fact I really believe he hates me. I did talk to him once this time about the reason why I asked him to leave but I guess he feels it's too hard to be kind to me and too difficult to end contact w/ OW. I've pretty much been in a strong plan B but is there even such a thing as plan B if you are divorcing. I would call it more or less Plan E. (end) Or plan O (over). He hasn't indicated even once in over a month now that he would be remotely interested in saving our marriage. He's never said he's sorry. He just doesn't seemed to be bothered by this.

And basically I'm feeling like a big stupid fool b/c why would I even want to be w/ a man who so blatently despises me. I want my family back together and yet I feel his love is toxic.

Earlier today I had this stupid vision of going up to him and just hug him. Just kiss him. But again why? He could care less.

I'm trying so hard to detatch but this dull aching pain just won't go away. I almost feel as if I will never have the privilage of experiencing a happy, warm, nurturing family. It's like it's not in the cards for me.

So many people who know both my WH and me have told him that he needs to keep his family together. So many people have told him that he would be missing out on a wonderful life w/ me. I am generally very personable and it's not like I'm some huge scary mistake.

I hate what this is doing to me and my kids. And the latest blow to my heart is that the A he denied all along was more than he ever told me. He told my 11 year old boy that he loved her the way he loved me. There's so much hurt in that statement on so many levels, but me aside, my son will always remember that. That's horrible.

Tell me how I can detatch myself more effectively. I don't know how much longer I can hold my head up.

I'm so sorry.

There are so many things to comment on but I need to run so let me just say that you need to sit down with your husband and explain to him that making a statement like that to an 11 year old boy is inexcusable. Regardless of whatever anger, rationalization, hurt etc he is feeling it is not fair to the boy. Take it from a 45 year old male who rarely talks to his father because of similar comments over 30 years ago, your husband may think that he is getting your son's sympathy but he is not. As time moves along there will be tremendous resentment. Your M issues are just that yours. Keep them away from your children!!

Pay no attention to anything he says, and tell 11 year old not to take anything too seriously. When these folks go into the fog, everything else goes out the window. My H kept coming back and saying he loved me, wanted to stay in marriage, blah, blah, blah. But everytime he promised NC with OW, he was right back with her. I never did Plan A, probably should have, just threw him out and started Plan B. His constant deception just got too much for me. Now I am very happy most days, it's been only 3 months since D-day. Anyway you need to put him on the back burner, start taking care of yourself, doing things, and thinking about having a life. Then if you get back with him, things will be alright, and if you don't, things will still be alright. It's hard at first, but so worth it. Also keep posting here. Just writing about all the crap helps, and there are some great people here.

The fact is that you can't compete with OW. OW is a fantasy.

Let the fantasy play itself out.

When I read your story, it reminded me of a call to Harley on his radio show. The man had been divorced from his first wife (mother of his children) for 17 years, he had been having an affair with a woman during his M, he eventually married this woman 10 years ago, and now this woman was having an A with another woman.

Harley's advice was to consider going back to his first wife, who had never remarried. The caller was flabbergasted, but Harley said that the relationship with the second woman was based on the false assumption that love comes from being with the right woman instead of building a relationship of care. If your H didn't treat you with care, sooner or latter he won't be treating OW with care.

While your H is saying such terrible things, best to remove yourself from his presence and let the fantasy die.

I've thought about the fact that my WH didn't treat me w/ care too. He had an A during his 1st marriage (not w/ me, I didn't know him) and claimed that she wasn't giving him enough sex so that's why he went outside the M.

Something has occured to me also about this whole situation. This can't be my burden to shoulder b/c this has been a pattern for him. Let me explain... After his 1st M ended in D he had different girlfriends. But when I met him (about 3 years after his D) he was involved w/ a woman who had 2 kids. He was pretty serious w/ her and was involved w/ her for about 2 years or so. Ok, he meets me and I'm not particularly interested b/c I was ending a relationship w/ a long time boyfriend and was enjoying the dating world now.

But he persues me. He would pop in at my work. He would show up where I would hang out on the weekend. I was interested but not THAT interested yet. The girlfriend he had he said was ending b/c she wanted more and he didn't want to marry her and he didn't want to be father to her kids. BUT b/c I wasn't exactly committed to begining a dating relationship w/ him, he still kept her around (I suppose as backup). I did't know all of this at the time however.

Now, after some time I decide that I wanted to start dating him exclusively. He ends his relationship w/ GF. My point to all of this is that my WH always had to have one skirt to hang on to before he would let go of the other. Ok so now that I am looking at this I see the pattern of his behavior. But the truth of it all is that there was no woman who ever could meet his pathetic needs b/c I don's think HE knows what they are!!

This doesn't lessen the hurt and devestation I'm feeling. In my relationships I am faithful. Always have been. In fact I've always been more like "when I'm done, I'm done". There's no waiting for the next one to come around before I dump the current.

Right now it's so tremendously hard to totally distance myself from him b/c he is living in a house just a few houses down from me. I don't go over and talk to him. But when I see him dressed up to go out for the evening like he has no cares in the world, while his kids are playing on the street...well it kills me.

Ok, you know what? I know I don't need this POS husband. Like I said, he's toxic. But when will it not hurt so much? I want him to feel the hurt too. It's not fair. And I'm stuck here in h*ll on the same street w/ him. I just don't want to have to see him...preferably ever again!

The MC also is my IC. What she said about my H before we started MC is, "It's possible that the concept of care doesn't make sense to him."

I thought -- how sad? You know what? A guy like your H is to be pitied. The sizzle of an A does not compare with the solace of a constant, faithful companion with whom you have children and on whom you can rely in times of trouble. People who hook up in affairs are likely to be fair-weather friends.

Look at the movie, "Hud." In it the father says to the son, "You live just for yourself, and that makes you not fit to live with."

OW will be good for a period of time, and then he'll be on to the next one. Someday, he may well be all alone, with a string of broken hearts as a legacy. If that is the sort of man you married, then the A is a blessing -- you have many more years ahead of you and without him would be better.

I am typing to myself as well as to you. My H says the A is over and we are in MC. However, there's a lot that is muddy in his approach. He's not really taking responsibility for the A, for one thing.

I already know that the A is a blessing. I hope you can see your H's A that way too. Your children will be better off with him out of the house.

One day, my H was complaining about how I don't like all his outside activities. He said, "You won't let me play golf, you won't let me play volleyball, you won't let me run, you won't let me watch TV..." I responded by asking, "Where am I on your priority list?" I know how degrading it is to get some cast-off crumbs of attention from him. BUT what really struck me was, "Where are the kids on his priority list?" And how are they going to feel in the future when they realize that he chooses to spend so much time away from them?

Better one caring parent than one parent distracted by the blatant lack of care of the other.

Ok you guys, DO YOU WANT TO HEAR THE LATEST TWIST IN THIS SAGA?

I called the OW yesterday. This is the 23 yr old former sec. When I called her once before she seemed very open and very talkative. I wasn't sure if she was completely truthful but she was friendly and cooperative.

So based upon the lovely statement my WH said to my son that he "loved her like he loved me" I wanted to talk to her about this. She is states away from us in law school so at least I know he isn't seeing her.

Again she was very friendly. So I basically told her I was calling to appeal to her as a woman and a future mother. I told her what my WH said to my son and said that I wanted to talk to him about that statement but his anger and hostility are running high where I'm concerned. I told her that my WH's statement was very inappropriate and that my son will never be able to erase what his dad said out of his mind and that I'm very concerned over that.

I told her that we were willing to accept her if this is what my WH has chosen to do. And since I can't change things I felt that at least maybe she could help to minimize the damage by helping my WH to choose his words carefully.

Well, she flipped out! Not b/c she was mad that I called, but b/c she said that she in no way shape or form had ANY feelings for my WH. She said that she only looked to him as a father figure. He is 21 years older than her. She said he looks like members of her family. Also she said "no offense but he's not the type of man I would be interested in dating". (He's short, stocky, balding...you know older) Then she just kept apologizing to me over this whole situation. She is angry that he would throw her into the middle of this and said that he has "big problems".

I talked to her on the phone for over 30-45 minutes. I completely believe this girl.

Can I ask you experienced MBs out there...What then is this all about?! Why would my WH sacrifice this girl at the expense of our marriage? I feel that she is a decoy b/c she is so far away and he probably thought that I wouldn't ever find a way to talk to her. But more importantly, why would he say that to my son if this isn't even the girl he has been involved with? What do you make of this mess? And how am I going to get to the truth? My WH is so messed up. I just cannot understand how he got from normal to certifiable.

Give me some insight if you can.

Dear ljkm,

With this info, do NOT confront your H. IMHO it w/b better to take your son to a good counselor. U may want to run this by Steve or Jennifer 1st. Let the counselor deal with addressing this issue with your H. If he is using hte decoy, you will find out, if she is lying to you again you will probably find out. Either way you would find out but it maybe painful.

Remember that A's are fantasies. What he has concoted may or may not have all the player's buy in, in real life. Little girls do this while young and imagine what their future husband's would be like..... sometimes adults take that thought pattern into their adult life's and it just doesn't look good.

JMHO,
L.

No, I'm NOT going to confront WH on this one. Would you have an intellectual conversation w/ a mental patient?! Lord, this man is in so deep over his head. This sheds a new and more disturbing light on him.

I'm sure that one way or another the truth will be revealed. But if he went to this extreme to carry this lie then how bad is it for real?

I will be talking w/ the counselor this week and will be making arrangements for my son or even all 3 of my kids. This new information throws a huge wrentch in the mix.

Why would he lie like this? I mean things are as bad as they're going to get for him I suppose... He lost his wife and kids. He's lost all of our respect for him, people in the community see him in a different light now.

One good thing that happened today is that he showed up to church. I've told the kids to keep on inviting him. So when he did come I was glad. He may be in denial but he at least got to hear the Lord's words. You can't hide from God and His Word. Well, it ought to be interesting to see what bus is going to hit me next on this long journey. What a mess!

Before the A came to light, I had several conversations -- initiated by me -- with the OW, and the information provided was false. Consider it possible that the OW is lying.

Yea, I often wonder if I am just too naive. I don't know what to believe anymore. this whole thing sucks. I am feeling like throwing in the towel. Really. Things are so bad right now that I wonder if I should just call off the divorce and have him come back home. I mean at least he was paying the bills then. So maybe it would be better for my kids if I just turned a blind eye to what has been going on and just suck it up.

ALOT has happened over the past few days. First my WH cancelled my credit card. I used this card to purchase groceries, gas, and odds an ends that the kids and I needed. He hasn't given me any cash in over 3 weeks. Last night when I came home it was raining and I heard a loud drip...drip...drip. Water was seeping in through my back wall and it was coming out like a small waterfall over the fixed window that is there.

Guys, I'm losing it. My WH has no intentions of helping us and he wants me to give him an explanation for every penny he does give to me. We are going through a divorce..I don't need to give him explanations anymore. I am stressing so bad now that I only feel like crying.

I called the attorney yesterday and they said that my WH had until the end of the day yesterday to respond to the petition. If he didn't respond they were going to set a date in court for an emergency support. In the mean time I will be running out of gas soon and I can't afford to put one thing more on my MC. Outside of that, I have nothing.

How am I going to make it through this? I just want to give up and move as far away from my WH as I possibly can so that I won't have to look at him. What am I going to do?

Take one day at a time. Water seeping through the back wall has to be addressed today.

It doesn't matter if OW is with your H. What matters is that he is not with you.

I sucked up to H when he pressed down so hard on my forehead that I still have a lump in the middle of my forehead. In fact, the other day, my 2 year old pointed to it because she thought it hurt.

I decided to let go and forgive him and trust in God and show my commitment to him and all that CRAP!

Four years later, 12 days after major pelvic floor surgery which included a hysterectomy, he breaks my ulna in seven pieces because I am threatening to call a woman whom he says keeps calling him and it would be rude of him to hang up.

Since then, I have gained 30 pounds, my 9 year old is overweight, the 7 year old has physically hurt his sisters, the 4 year old feels herself up constantly sucking her thumb and touching her nipple, and the 2 year old seems unaffected.

If you accept him back after what he has done with no intent on his part to change, you will be doing your children the greatest disservice you could. You will be telling them to accept this behavior from their own spouses.

Don't go back!!!

Now my H says he is changing and says he wants to show care and have me care for him. We both agreed that care means attentiveness. He's spent the last 5 years saying "Leave me alone!" I don't know, I don't know. I proceed with MC wondering if the only person I am fooling that this could work out is myself. I am glad that I realized it wasn't just a matter of my forgiving him and moving on.

Don't go back!!!

My Lord, you have been going through hell! Who am I to complain. I'm so sad to see how your kids have been affected by this. It's very disturbing. What makes us try to keep holding on when you know it's WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Last night WH called. So, you guys would be proud of me. I was completely calm. As a matter of fact everytime he tried to argue i was able to diffuse it. So I told him about the leak in the wall and that I was concerned about mold growing and that it could be a potential health hazzard to the kids. Do you know what he told me?! Of course you all do b/c all WH's are popped from the same mold!!!! He said that since there's a potential health hazzard to "his" children that he was going to make me leave the house. He was going to force me out and make me move into our rental house since it's fixed. He said that he would move in and just live in the bedroom upstairs and fix the house over the next several months. OH YEAH..He can't fix it w/ us in there but he can as long as he's in there. I asked him how much it could cost to nail some plywood over the exposed fiberglass in the ceiling and to caulk around the window.

He is such a jerk!!! NO, I'm not leaving, I just feel like it. Anybody got room for us out on the west coast? I did finally get a chance to talk to my attorney. They are filing an emergency motion for temporary support right away. My WH didn't even respond to the petition that he was served w/. He had 20 days to do so.

One final question, How do you keep your sanity when the sh** hits the fan and you just feel like throwing in the towel? How can I know that I don't need to do anything and just trust? I know God is here. I love Him so much. I know I'll be ok some day, but how do you get yourself there when everything is looking so bad right now?

My mother, bless her heart, gave me some good advice. If you were the mother and your daughter was in the position you're in, what would you advise her to do?

In your case, would you suggest he come back so that you wouldn't have to be directly responsible for the leak -- would you, in effect, whore yourself for handyman services?

Marriage is a commitment of mutual care, not a commitment of slave and slaveholder.

Trust me -- the affair hurt far, far worse than the abuse. Don't underestimate the damage that WH is doing to you and your children. Most WH's see the light of day when the A is exposed. Yours did not.

Oh man, you sure do know how to sum it up! I like how you put it. You're right, I would never consider whoring myself for handyman services! I'll just go out then and buy some duct tape for the window and some plywood and nails for the fiberglass exposure, ha ha.

My counselor was saying that he is living his fantasy w/ this other girl all by himself. For whatever reason he believes there's a mutual love there. This girl is thousand of miles away and not willing to commit to some crazy old mid-life crisis man who is 21 years older than her. It kind of makes me think of some men that you meet that just don't seem to "get it". You know, they will express an interest in you and you are polite to them, but there is nothing there on your end as far as feelings. I've been there before and these guys will keep pursuing you thinking that you'll change your mind or something.

No, my WH isn't even phased that his behavior has been brought into light. The only other concern would be any involvement w/ the cuban women who prostitute themselves to survive. That's sad, but it's rampant in that country. And these women will make you feel like you're the only one on the planet and that they love you madly. But in reality they are only looking for $ to help feed their families.

I am officially proclaiming that I am taking my life back!!! I know I have a tough battle ahead of me and I know I'm going to do a lot more crying before this is all said and done. But I know in my heart that I could never go back to where I was. NEVER!

Last night in my Bible study, Beth Moore on her video said that sometimes when we go through fiery trials they are not only meant to refine us. They are meant so our children and others too can see how we stand in the midst of them. That is how we grow and that's how we can be good disciples to bring forth God's Glory. I choose to bring forth God's Glory.

ljkm3:

I hope this does not offend you, but it sounds like your WH is a major "player."

Listening to your story, how you met him, what he did before you met him, etc. how he's lying aobut R w/ow now, it sounds like someone who loves to control people around him.

Secondly, he loves the "thrill of the hunt" - and if that's true, there will always another OW......

Dr. Phil says, "We teach people how to treat us..." and then YOU say, "Most people that he associates w/ wouldn't know what I look like if I was staring right at them. " This tells me that you have allowed him to disrespect you, and keep you out of his daily life! Don't do this anymore. Unless he is willing to step up, and treat you as an equal, respect you as a W, and GIVE UP his philandering ways, I would (at this particular time) go about your business without care or concern for him!

ljkm, please consider doing more work on yourself and things that bring pleasure to YOU. You deserve them!

Cyberhugs, {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ljkm3}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} and God Bless,

I have learned so much about myself since this all came into light. You in no way offended me. In fact it's true. I allowed him to control me in every way. My fault for allowing it to go on for so long. My WH never respected me, that's a given.

I'm actually looking forward to a relationship w/ someone someday who will be kind and considerate. Someone who will think of my needs as well as his. Someone who will never want to leave my side. Someone who would be proud to include me in his life and activities.

I am finally starting to get it. One friend said that I have been opressed for a very long time by him. You know, that's true. I was thinking today that if I would talk to him I would thank him for all that has happened. Think about it, if I knew that I would feel this GOOD about myself even in the midst of this pain, I would have welcomed the change a long time ago.

I never want to go back to the kind of relationship I had w/ him before. I would never want to get involved in a relationship w/ someone who has those same characteristics. I never really saw the value in me before b/c my WH would point out any negative attributes he thought I had way above any positive. He pretty much has torn me down w/ his words rather than build me up.

I believe he ultimately did me a favor. I just need you guys to help me get through the impending storm. He's going to come out kicking and screaming. For the first time I'm challenging him and I'm not giving in to his control. But the worst part of it is that since I've been in this opressive relationship for so long I struggle when he cuts me to the core w/ his nasty words. Help me by giving me some words of wisdom and some tools that I can use to make it through w/o falling victim to his garbage. Face it, I see where I've been and I know where I'm going but climbing out of the pattern I've repeated for years is not going to happen over night.

Every single one of you here have helped me to stay grounded and focused. Where do I send the check for services rendered?!

You guys I feel so sad for my kids. They want to be w/ their dad, but since he's not quite the daad that they know, they don't exactly have fun around him now.

My WH asked to have the kids all day yesterday and I said of course. technically if we are to go by a visitation schedule this would be his weekend. (not just day)

So in the morning I had to go out. I had scheduled myself to take the parenting class that the state requires parents to take. (very good by the way) So I told the kids to go down to their dad's house after they got up. He takes them out to Target and a pet store and out to lunch. Later on my son had a football game so he was going to take him to the field. The girls wanted to go w/ me when I was going to leave for the game but I told them daddy wanted to spend the day w/ him and they would have a good time. So they went. Later after the game, my son wanted to go back to our house to shower and change and I told him that he had a change of clothes in my car and that he could shower at dad's. I just handed the clothes to him and started walking away saying that I would see them later and to have a good time w/ their dad.

I felt kind of bad but I knew they needed to spend the WHOLE day w/ him and really stay over night too. This is the first "official" day like this so it was awkward on all ends. But I stood firm. I went out and had dinner w/ some friends and had a good time.

But the kids, all 3 of them called me numerous times asking me when I would be home b/c they wanted to go home. I told them that they should spend the night and they didn't want to. Now he doesn't have any furniture really but my kids do have sleeping bags. So after the last call I started heading home. It was about 11:30 or so. I told the kids I would call when I got closer to the house and they could meet me out front. Well they did. And my WH looked all ticked off w/ his arms folded like I just did something horrifying.

I guess I'm writing all of this b/c this is my first experience w/ the visitation thing. I feel bad for the kids, but they need their dad too. How can I make this less traumatic for them as we have to do this more often?

Dear L,

U did good. It was hard and hard for the children but the right thing to do.

I am sorry the children are suffering so but Mr. Folded Arms is gonna have to realize that he can't buy their love.

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ljkm3:
<strong>

I guess I'm writing all of this b/c this is my first experience w/ the visitation thing. I feel bad for the kids, but they need their dad too. How can I make this less traumatic for them as we have to do this more often? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lj, sure they need to see their dad and I would encourage visits, but they still need the security of their own home and bed at night. Their world has already been so completely rocked, thats about all they have left: their mom and their HOME.

I'm sure they want to visit with their dad, but I don't see why they would have to spend the night away from their own warm, secure rooms to acheive that. He sure doesn't have rooms for them. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like being forced to sleep on the floor somewhere strange for no good reason. It doesn't benefit them one bit to spend the night there. It's not fair they have to give up that security to accommodate his craziness, IMO.

Haven't their lives been disrupted enough?

<small>[ November 02, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>