I understand where everyone is coming from on this, but first of all, I never know what her work schedule is so I never know when she's home & will answer the phone. Second of all, I don't even know what this girl looks like. Third of all, when I called down there to confirm the A, I got her. H told me at the beginning that she was getting abused & that she was leaving her H for him. She was supposedly moving out the first day I spoke to him. Then I heard that she did move out to her parents, but then she went back to her H's. I know, it doesn't sound anything like he is abusing her, I mean, why would her parents want her to go back to an abusive man? But regardless, my belief systems are very strong. I do not fight evil with evil. Plain & simple. I put my trust in God to do the work. I rely on Him. If I go calling her H, making trouble for her, then aren't I just as guilty as they are for making trouble with our family? I mean, who's supposed to be the better person here? When you "fight fire with fire" you usually get burned. The goal here is to bring him back to a decent, caring individual who loves him not some vindictive b**** who's been scorned. That will never bring him back to me. Giving him ultimatums sounds like it will just push him farther away. Then he will really be glad he left.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you are NOT responsible for the OW's H's behavior in how he deals with the truth about his W having an affair with your H </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would be responsible if in fact her H is abusive. I'm the one that would have caused a situation in which she would be beaten (if that would be true). I couldn't live with myself.

But MelodyLane has a point in that, just like I wanted to know if my H was having an A, I'm sure her H would like to know as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Standing_for_M:
[QB] But regardless, my belief systems are very strong. I do not fight evil with evil. Plain & simple. I put my trust in God to do the work. I rely on Him. If I go calling her H, making trouble for her, then aren't I just as guilty as they are for making trouble with our family? ]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, no, no Yvette, it is not evil to warn someone they are being destroyed behind their back. Honesty is GOOD. Evil can only THRIVE if good men stand silent. You aide and abet evil if you do not tell him. Adultery is EVIL, telling someone they are being destroyed is NOT evil.

Standing by and not warning this man that he is being destroyed behind his back makes you an accessory to the crime. Period.

If someone is embezzling money from you, would you consider the police to be "evil" when they informed you someone was embezzling money from you? Of course you wouldn't. It is not evil to warn someone they are being destroyed. It is evil to commit adultery and to embezzle money. It is NOT evil to expose evil.

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Standing_for_M:
I'm the one that would have caused a situation in which she would be beaten (if that would be true). I couldn't live with myself.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, you wouldn't be responsible. He would be. However, I don't believe for a minute he is an abuser. Otherwise she wouldn't move in and out, have an affair and otherwise do everything to risk his wrath. If she planned on leaving him she wouldn't live there anyway.

He is probably some poor heartbroken chump who is sitting there wondering what the heck is going on. His wife is probably telling him everything is just fine while sneaking around behind his back because she has no intention of leaving him. I also doubt that she ever left him at all in the first place. Often when the OP is busted, they immediately end the affair.

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I understand what you're saying MelodyLane. But how do I contact him without her being there when I never know when she's going to be there? Just take my chances? I'm not sure how I would go about all of this.

Yvette, you just have to figure it out. Maybe call her work and confirm she is there before you call his house. Send a letter to his workplace. If you call his house, use #69* so your name and # won't be on the caller ID.


*Is this how you mask your phone #??

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Hi Standing for M

First off I do agree it is more likely that your WH is lieing to you, or just parroting what the OW said to him. Some OP's will say or do anything to get their hooks set. By exposing the A to her H, you are disarming that. If you do verify that the OW is working and get ahold of her H, then if you feel obligated call the OW at work and let her know you exposed the A. Then she has the option to not go home if she is being abused. As TMCM says, I would also start telling your H's family, your family. Any and all support that your H might have.

Really you have no responsibility to the OW at all. Look at what she has done to your family. Do you think she was/is worried about you?

Yes Plan A, until you know you can't anymore then Plan B.

You are not at fault for the A at all. If your WH was having problems for years he should have shared them with you. All you can do is except 50% of the problems that opened the door to an A, your WH is 100% responilbe for the A itself.

You will be in our prayers

Okay, I've been hearing what everyone is saying. I do agree to a certain extent, if they were hot & heavy like the beginning. From what I understand, they are fighting more now than at the beginning & they usually do not see each other that much. He feels she is playing "head" games with him because every time one of her H friends is over, she's very cheerful & flirty, but when they leave, she gets very cold & "tired" all of a sudden. When he tries to talk to her by phone, one minute she's fine, the next she's ice cold. I might not have to do anything. It looks like they are fizzling out on they're own. He is starting to feel used. Maybe, just maybe, he's starting to think that the "grass ain't greener". When approached about his belief in God, he made the comment that he felt he was straying from Him and needed to work some things out. I don't know exactly what that means, but I think maybe he's having second thoughts. I mean, could he be scared to come around the children & me because he actually has a good time with us and that scares him because then he'd have to realize that he made a mistake. He is stubborn. He is full of pride. He has a hard time admitting that he's feeling certain feelings. He tries to ignore them. But they eat at him until he has to admit them to himself. I think I might wait this one out,for a little while anyway. His family & my family know all about the A & he is not receiving any support. They all believe he is making a mistake, so his twin brother talks to him & gets a "read" on how he's feeling. From what I understand, H is starting to get depressed. This is a very good sign. It very well could be the reason he hasn't been around. That old guilt might be kicking in.

Yvette,

I think you are right, that the affair is dying a natural death. And I think the best way to kick it down the stairs is to tell her H. It will hasten its death by putting pressure on the affair from that end. She likely has no intention of leaving her H and her children.

But that is not the main reason for telling her H. The main reason is that you have a moral obligation to warn this man that he being destroyed behind his back. While this might be a first affair for your H, it's just as likely that this is not a first affair for her, nor the ONLY affair she is having. When her H sleeps with her, he is exposed to any STD that her sleeping partner would have.

This man has a RIGHT to know what is happening in his own life and that information is being WRONGFULLY and CRUELLY withheld from him right now.

The bottom line is that this man needs to know so he can protect himself and his children FROM HER. It doesn't matter if it helps you or not, the man still has to know.

So how do I tell him? Do I make an anonymous call to him or tell him plain & simple, Your wife is having an A with my H? I would opt for the latter. Just be plain blunt. I just hope this doesn't backfire in my face. She knows where I work, she knows what I look like, I'm not sure if she knows where I live. If I make trouble for her with her H, then she could very well end up wanting to get revenge. This could open a big can of worms that I'm not sure I'm ready for. I understand what you're saying about him needing to know, but it just all seems so sneaky, so deceitful. And please don't tell me they did it to you, you do it to them.

Yvette, I also vote for telling him straight out. He might have questions and it will also be good to keep the lines of communication open so you can help each other. It would be an enormous help if he would come here so we can help him!

But it is not deceitful and sneaky to EXPOSE evil. Your SILENCE only aids and abets their evil and makes you an accessory. Adultery and lying is deceitful and sneaky. The police are not deceitful and sneaky when they warn a victim of embezzlement. It is the RIGHT thing to do to expose this affair to its victim.

This is not about tit for tat or getting "revenge." First off, exposing evil is not evil so the actions are not the same. What they are doing is evil, what you are doing is GOOD and JUST. Evil cannot survive the light of day, Yvette.

As far as the logistics, you will have to look at the situation and figure out the best way to contact him. Maybe call when you know she is at work, but disguise your number, and tell him that your H is having an affair with his W. Would he like to meet and discuss further? [or something to that effect]

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

So you're telling me that I should warn this man & what he does with the information is totally up to him. Well, let me ask you this -- what if his reaction is to go ballistic & decide to harm my H? What if he decides to come home early from work to "catch" her in the act & goes ballistic when he sees my H there? I do not want my H hurt. I love him. Some people do not handle news like that very well. I know my reaction wasn't that great. And I did have thoughts of hurting this OW. But being I am the person I am, I didn't. I have no idea what her H is like. I don't know anything about him. I could see if he was a friend of mine then I could get a feel of how he would take the news, but being he's a stranger, I don't know.

Well, tell her H, then and only afterwards, tell your WH that you told. He can then make the adult choice to either stay out of another mans marriage bed, or not. Sorry to be blunt, you are not responsible for your WH choices. He is.

I also wouldn't worry about the OW. I do think that if this is just the most recent A, she will just look for easier prey. Its time for daylight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Standing_for_M:
<strong> So you're telling me that I should warn this man & what he does with the information is totally up to him. Well, let me ask you this -- what if his reaction is to go ballistic & decide to harm my H? What if he decides to come home early from work to "catch" her in the act & goes ballistic when he sees my H there? I do not want my H hurt. I love him. Some people do not handle news like that very well. I know my reaction wasn't that great. And I did have thoughts of hurting this OW. But being I am the person I am, I didn't. I have no idea what her H is like. I don't know anything about him. I could see if he was a friend of mine then I could get a feel of how he would take the news, but being he's a stranger, I don't know. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I promise this is the last thing I will say on this subject so we can move onto other subjects if you want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yvette, this man is being destroyed behind his back by your H and his girlfriend. Your concern should lie with their VICTIMS, not the VICTIMIZERS. You seem to be more concerned about the VICTIMIZERS facing the consequences of their CHOSEN BEHAVIOR than the best interest of an INNOCENT MAN and his children. Of course, there will be consequences when the truth comes out.

That is what happens when people do cruel and evil things to others. To withhold that information is just as cruel. It would be unrealistic to think that the OWH is going to give your H a medal for rutting with his wife.

But your fear of this victim's anger shouldn't preclude his or his children's BEST INTEREST. They did not ask to be destroyed. But your H and his girlfriend willingly chose this with no regard to their victims. It is in his best interest to know the truth so that he can protect himself from your H and his W. A stranger deserves to be warned just as much as a friend.

Either way, protecting the WS from the consequences of the affair only serves to prolong the affair.

And either way, I am not going to discuss this issue any more, because, even though I think it is vitally important to your situation, I believe I have said everything I can say about it. It is now becoming a distraction to your other issues, IMO, and is not helpful to you. So, you do whatever you want to do with this, I won't discuss it anymore unless you want to, ok?

What else is going on? Have you heard from your H today?

Yes, heard from H today. He went trick or treating with all of us tonight & then took the kids to see his mother. I went to my big sis's house until they got back. He's going to pick them up tomorrow after work, probably around 6 or so. D11 asked if Mommy could come along & he said, No, I'm taking you guys. Then he asked if I was angry & D said no. He just said, Oh. Maybe he was waiting for me to get angry - that's what I normally would have done, but I'm changing so that won't happen anymore. Even though inside I was dying & just waiting to be invited.

I don't know what hurts more, the fact that he left or the fact that he's enjoying life without me. My D & I look exactly alike. I wonder if he even thinks about me when he looks at her. I don't dwell on it, but I do wonder if he misses things at home. It's so odd for me to hear him say things like, your house, your bathroom, May I have this or May I have that? This is his home. This is where he belongs. I just wish & pray that he'd realize that.

I am getting better at dealing with my emotions. I didn't cry when I saw him drive away. I usually do. So that's a plus. I cried though when the kids left with him & I was by myself. I try not to think about it. It usually gets me depressed. I've been trying to keep busy, it's not working. It's on my mind 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I am trying to be content with what I do have, but it's not working. Baby steps, I know. And I am a lot stronger now than I was 3 weeks ago so I think those baby steps are paying off somewhat.

Hi Standing

How are you doing? I hope things are ok with you. How about an update

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is stubborn. He is full of pride.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yvette, that is what you should be praying about. Pray for the Lord to confound and expose her and him. Pray that your husband will be shown without a shadow of a doubt that "pride goes before a fall" and that the Lord hates a prideful spirit. Prayer is so powerful Yvette, your signature line says it all -- Nothing is impossible with God. Nothing, including turning your husband's heart back to you and your children. I fully believe in Erin Theile's book and if I were in your position I would definitely follow those principles. Whenever you have contact with him, be of a kind and gentle spirit, with kindness on your tongue.

There is a scripture you can pray regarding your situation. It is Luke 8:17 "For nothing is secret that shall not be made manifest, neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad". Pray scripture over your husband, pray and fast. God will prevail because GREATER IS HE THAT IS WITHIN ME THAN HE THAT IS WITHIN THE WORLD!

I will be praying for you dear sister.

Yvette your reluctance about telling the OW's H's for fear of his reaction if you tell him the truth is the mirror image of the WS reluctance in telling his/her BS about the A for fear of what s/he might do. It is dishonest as well as condescending of you and makes you an enabler of the betrayal that is happening behind his back. Imagine if you are wrong, and he loses his marriage all because nobody told him the truth about his W's affair, could you live with that?

AW,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yvette, that is what you should be praying about. Pray for the Lord to confound and expose her and him </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what I've been doing. And it finally paid off. OW confessed to her H. I don't know what's going to happen to their M. I will pray that they can be restored as well. H wants me to meet her so he can take the children with them places. He wants to be able to take his children wherever he wants & with me not wanting them around her until I see her first & know what kind of person she is, he is limited on where he can go & with whom.

I can kind of understand this, but in my opinion, what kind of person, knowing that someone is madly in love with somebody & married to them, will deliberately try to take that away? Not one of very good character. But then again, who am I to judge? Her sins aren't any worse than my own, just different.

All I can do is pray that their souls return to God & get on the path to righteousness instead of destruction. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Whenever you have contact with him, be of a kind and gentle spirit, with kindness on your tongue </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is also what I've been doing. It seems to be working. He doesn't mind staying for long periods of time as long as I'm upbeat & cheerful. Everything that I say, I try to have kindness with it & think of how Jesus would talk to him. After all, he is God's child & God loves him too, although he might be angry with my H, he disciplines with love in mind just as I do with my children.

We did arrange for me to meet OW last night, but she called & cancelled saying that "something came up". H didn't ask her what. She then called him later while he was at our house & he took the call outside so I praise the Lord that he had respect for our home, me & the children by not speaking to her inside our home. I really do believe that God intervened on that one. Maybe He knew that if we met, it wouldn't go well. I do believe that she was probably with someone else and lied to my H, but only she & God know that. I keep praying that H sees through the lies & deceit that she's hurling his way.

Yvette, I'm sorry I haven't responded sooner. Have not been on line much lately as my H is home.
All I can say about your post is PRAISE GOD! He is hearing and answering your prayers. He will take care of you and your marriage. I am praying for restoration for you for God's glory.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">in my opinion, what kind of person, knowing that someone is madly in love with somebody & married to them, will deliberately try to take that away? Not one of very good character.But then again, who am I to judge?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to agree with you on this too. One day your husband will see that this is not a woman of integrity and it will hit him like a ton of bricks. After my H came home he felt horrible about his behavior and said it made him sick to think about it. Pray Proverbs 5-7 that God will reveal to your husband this woman's true nature and the consequences of this sin. You just keep doing what you're doing and stay in prayer and in the Word and He will answer.

God will greatly bless you for your faithfulness. I will pray for you tonight Yvette.

Blessings,

AW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everything that I say, I try to have kindness with it & think of how Jesus would talk to him. After all, he is God's child & God loves him too, although he might be angry with my H, he disciplines with love in mind just as I do with my children.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope that you are a little easier on him than Jesus would be. Remember Jesus yelled at people and called them some pretty choice names when he was angry. He wasn't very politically correct or "Jesus-like". I wouldn't suggest that you love bust your H at this point and thusly push him away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We did arrange for me to meet OW last night, but she called & cancelled saying that "something came up". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For what possible reason would you meet with the OW? I know that Harley does recommend confronting the OP in some circumstances, but not with your WS. Were you intending on confronting her?

Has her H been told yet that he is being destroyed behind his back?