I blew it big time tonight. Picked up my D from school and she had it out with her BF. On the way home she dumped on me for spending time w/friends when she didn't have any except her BF. Then she started up about listening to my stupid "His needs/her needs" tapes saying it wasn't going to do any good w/WW. I said maybe it might help if I ever have someone else. She told me there would never be anybody b/c after 2 failed marriages I was a looser and I should just give up. I went into a funk and just stopped talking. D said she wanted to spend the night W her mom, I said OK and dropped her off there. Later D called and said her mom had "plans" and was bringing her back to me.

When WW came w/D that's when I blew it. I asked WW couldn't she just change her plans for one night because her D needed to be with her. She said NO because she didn't have enough notice. I told her she didn't give a damn about anybody but herself and to "just leave and go be with your man". She walked our and said "bye" and I said "bye... enjoy yourself".

I am sorry I lost my cool but it has been building inside me for months. WW had been talking pleasantly with me for a few months but never wears wedding rings or wants to tell me what she wants. She always said she doesn't want to talk about it. I guess I just keep getting madder while she is so cool, well adjusted and enjoying herself.

Why doesn't she divorce me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Maybe she will after tonight. We have been no contact except about bills or my D. Why am I such an [censored] or am I? Am I looking at reality or the fog? On the other hand I know she left because she felt I didn't really love her and she didn't love me. No words could tell her otherwise. It was too late for that. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hey Monty, I am sorry you are having such a rough time tonight. You can only take so much! Give yourself a break, you are only human. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S. go smack your daughter around a little for me, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Uh, Monty? This is not the end of the world, and you appear to be applying the 2x4 to yourself quite thoroughly.

I will say, though, that it's a bit foolish to take your anger at your daughter out on your wife. Your daughter was incredibly disrespectful of you, and you let her get away with it. Time to ground her butt, I'd say. (Remind me of this when my DD, currently 10 months, is a teenager...)

Also, do you have a situation where your daughter gets to pick where she spends the night, or do you have some kind of regular schedule for when she spends time with each parent? If you blew the schedule without coordination, your wife has some reasons to be upset.

Okay, small 2x4 here. You said your wife is being calm, courteous, and respectful of you, basically. Uh, that's not bad! I understand that you're upset, but you don't get to take it out on her just because you are and she's not. (Something I need to learn as well...)

So. You LBed big time because you were furious with your daughter. Rather than punish her in a straightforward, responsible way, you "went into a funk," didn't deal with the problem, and then exploded later.

I don't much care what your wife thinks of all this. I DO care what you do about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

(How was that?)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> P.S. go smack your daughter around a little for me, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My D has been a little B especially since the separation. Was in therapy for awhile, if anything she got worse. She does need something the think about, before she starts dumping again.

I don't know what to do about WW though. I did dump on her but I meant it all. All she cares about is OM, but she has threatened 3 times to divorce, (only tells this to D and not to me, but D tells me) but still hasn't done it. I am getting PO'd in limbo and oten think about filing for divorce myself. I don't really want one, but at what point do I decide that it's really over? I'm not getting any younger and I fear wasting too much more of my life waiting for someone who more than likely will never come home.

In spite of all, I can't make myself file. I have been in the lawyer's office 3 times and after talking to him, he said don't file, your not ready. Of course I still had to pay his fee.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Also, do you have a situation where your daughter gets to pick where she spends the night, or do you have some kind of regular schedule for when she spends time with each parent? If you blew the schedule without coordination, your wife has some reasons to be upset.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have my D every other week we swap up on Thurday nights. I guess you are right about W having a reason to be upset. I was upset because I thought D was wigging out and needed to be her mom and her mom thought spending the night with OM was more important. I am flexible about time with D. I just thought my W should be too. Maybe not?!

Monty - Well let's see. Your W is wrapped up in her selfishness, could care less about you and D. Your D is telling you that you're a big loser. Then she goes to see mom (who only thinks about her lover) and then has to come back to you, the loser. Please give yourself and D a break. Your whole world has just been hit by a tornado. Your happy home is gone. Your little girl is devastated and needs your support now, at a time when you have hardly any support to give. Put the blame where it belongs - on your wife's me,me,me behavior and go out and try to have some fun with your daughter. Be strong and take care of your D and yourself. This too will pass.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ML you just posted to me after I did the big LB and my D disrespectfulness. Did you ever LB as bad as I just did and did it set you back much???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Monty, your LB was not that bad at all! A bad lovebuster is when you pull your spouse over on the side of the road in his truck and commence to kicking and scratching him during 5 o'clock traffic while wearing a business suit with a skirt. THAT is lovebusting, Monty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ALTHOUGH, I sure don't recommend the practice of lovebusting! But it does happen, and I have yet to see a rare example, like yours, completely mess up the works. Yours wasn't that bad at all!

I think you are just being too hard on yourself, Monty. If your W really wanted to come back, this incident sure wouldn't stop her. It is an isolated incident and she knows this isn't the pattern.

Monty,
As for your daughter's behavior---her world has collapsed just as yours has. Her mother is off in another world, without a lot of attention left to focus on her. You are the "safe" one to get mad at. She knows you are not going to give up on her. Sometimes it helps to just say, "I can see you(or, "we both") are really stressed out. I don't think this is a good time to discuss this. We can talk about this when you (we)are not so upset." Once the discussion is escalated nobody is going to get anywhere. And acknowledging her stress helps her to see that she is not alone with nobody paying attention. It is so hard for our teenage kids. They don't feel comfortable in talking too much with us because they are afraid of getting caught in the middle. Perhaps there is another adult with less at stake that she can talk to. Does she have a counselor or an adult friend she can talk to?

LWH I beleive that you should convey to your daughter how hurtful and cruel her comments were to you, and how deeply sad you are that she has no empathy to the pain you are going through.

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Monty, my 3 daughters have done the same sort of thing, calling me a loser, and lashing out at me for everything that's going wrong in their lives. And sometimes they were all doing it at the same time LOL (not too funny at the time though). AND those are the times when I am most likely to love bust my husband too BECAUSE it's such a button-pusher to see our children hurt by our spouse's selfishness and lack of concern for their own children! Don't be so hard on yourself. Considering the situation I don't really think you love-busted much at all anyway. Your daughter feels safe dumping on you because she knows YOU won't bail out on your responsibilitites as a parent. MY daughters have told my husband this directly on many occasions - that they're afraid to tell him how they feel sometimes because he will just cancel his visitation with them if they do, so they complain to me instead.

And you know what? I'm willing to bet that when your daughter got to her mother's place she did try to tell her mother about her feelings but her mother suddenly had to go out to not have to deal with it. It must have been humiliating for your daughter to have to get you to come back and bring her home after saying such hurtful things to you and asking to be with her mother instead.

I agree with what Believer, Don't Bang On Beehives, AND Too Much Coffee Man said. Let your daughter know you understand why she thinks you are the parent with the big its-safe-to-vent-here target on your back... BUT tell her as the parent who stayed instead of strayed you deserve MORE respect. That's what I keep telling my daughters (but come to think of it I don't think it's helping much LOL) It's the boundaries and consistent application of household rules and schedules that make kids feel safe and loved. My kids have never before challenged my authority so much and it's a strain to have to carry the responsibility that used to be shared by two parents.

Another thing to consider is if your wife is doing the Disney parent thing because of guilt? Is your wife buying her more stuff than usual or having trouble setting limits?

Hang in there and don't be so harsh on yourself. You're a mere mortal and are there for your daughter when she needs you.

Monty,

Sounds like you and your daughter need a stress reliever. Are there any fun activities you enjoy together? They don't have to be expensive or anything. A night at a roller rink, pizza and a movie, etc. Something to just blow off steam and enjoy each other's company. It won't fix the problems, but it could help ease the tension so you can relate a bit better for a while. She may be of an age where she's getting too "cool" to show how much it means to her, but these little memories add up.

DObie

Thanks to all who responded.

I do however have a few questions.

This happened AFTER daughter dumped on me. I was asked by friend on my volleyball club to go with on a cruise with him. He had booked a year ago for he and his W but his W's sister is seriously ill and W cancelled out of the cruise. I was the only single friend and a logical choice to share the room and expenses. I really wanted to go. I ask my D if I could celebrate her 16th birthday on another day since I would be on the cruise.

D wants WW and myself to be with her on 16th birthday (admittedly a big one).

1. I am on Plan B. Should I apologize to my WW about my LBing last night so we can make up and be with my D on her birthday? Though I meant every word I said.

2. Would I be doing harm to my D by going on the cruise? I wonder what kind of birthday celebration it would be. I won't enjoy either now. I'll feel like I am neglecting my D if I go. I'll be miserable in my WW's company if I stay. I don't know if this means a lot to my D or if she is just playing on my feelings to get attention????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Monty:
<strong> I was asked by friend on my volleyball club to go with on a cruise with him. I ask my D if I could celebrate her 16th birthday on another day since I would be on the cruise.

D wants WW and myself to be with her on 16th birthday (admittedly a big one).

1. I am on Plan B. Should I apologize to my WW about my LBing last night so we can make up and be with my D on her birthday? Though I meant every word I said. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My opinion is, yes, apologize to your wife, and come out of Plan B long enough to be there for your daughter's Sweet Sixteen birthday. She's had her life and her home destroyed by selfish adults. She is entitled to security and an intact home with two parents in it. Sixteen is really young. I remember being that age.

Don't talk about your needs to your child. She is not your peer. You ARE entitled to respect, you ARE entitled to demand that she apologize to you for being rude and insulting. Come her and talk to us about your needs.

Your daughter's life right now is pretty horrible. She has only one friend, her boyfriend. All her trust and hope in the future has been destroyed. She's seen her home and family divided and split. She may look like an adult, but she's a child.

It's terribly unfair that your wife is indulging in an affair at the expense of your family and your daughter's security, well-being, her future. It's also unfair that you are the one burdened with the extra responsibility of parenting your daughter. It's also unfair that the responsibility entails being the only adult in the family to set an example of moral behavior.

Do you realize that essentially your daughter is homeless? We like to say to children when we split up their households, "Isn't it wonderful? You get to have two bedrooms, two wardrobes, two neighborhoods to make friends in, and when Mom and Dad remarry you will have more grandparents, cousins, more family!"

They know that they have half a life in each household. They know that they are less important to the dating or remarried Mom/Dad than their right to an intact home until they're old enough to go away to college. Your daughter knows she is less important to her mother than the plans Mom made with her boyfriend. How humiliating, how shameful your child must feel. She needs an "appointment" to be in her mother's home.

Yes, she should behave and speak with respect. Demand an apology, you are entitled to one. She's venting at the safe parent. What has made you the good and safe parent is that you have sacrificed for her. The way you continue in that role is to sacrifice even more, and do it with pleasure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2. Would I be doing harm to my D by going on the cruise? I wonder what kind of birthday celebration it would be. I won't enjoy either now. I'll feel like I am neglecting my D if I go. I'll be miserable in my WW's company if I stay. I don't know if this means a lot to my D or if she is just playing on my feelings to get attention???? </strong>

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I were your daughter, you would hurt me by leaving me home and taking a raincheck for my birthday. You know how you can be your daughter's hero? Stay home, and tell her how crazy you were to even think for a moment of going away on her birthday. Tell her you are thrilled that she wants you to be there for her important date.

Eat dirt, be a doormat to your wife, do whatever it takes to have a celebration that shows you love your daughter. I'm not talking about spending a bundle and taking out a loan to finance a party. I'm talking about doing really thoughtful stuff.

Write her a letter about the day she was born. Write about the wonderful memories you have of the milestones in her life. Put a lot into it. Dig out old snapshots, make a little picture book of her important life events.

Ask her how she wants to spend her 16th birthday. She may simply want to go out to dinner with you and her mom, and she may want to bring a friend or three along (I haven't forgotten you said she only has one friend; the boyfriend, but she may decide she has more than him in her circle)

So what if she is just playing on your feelings for attention. She is a child. If she doesn't deserve attention from her parents, she will seek it elsewhere. Affairs with men, sex with boys - if I were you, I would give her the attention she is begging for.

You are the rock in her world. You have no idea how important you are to her wellbeing.

<small>[ October 31, 2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Bellevue ]</small>

Monty

You have gotten some great advice. I hope you take it. You and I are of comparable ages and I think you need to be reminded of something I know you KNOW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Your D is your legacy to the world. She will only be 16 once, and you need to be there for her. It will only be 2 short years before she is off to college or out into the world of work. You don't have much time so don't waste it.

You mentioned that your D and her BF (best/boy friend I don't know which) had a fight. Have you talked with her about this? Have you sat and let her vent about this fight, and perhaps empathized with her about her situation. You should know how she feels right?

I have a son 16 and sometimes kids don't realize how much they can hurt you, because they really see you as invincible. Being a "loser", "lame" (my personal favorite), "too old", "out of touch", "not getting it", etc is pretty normal for this age. But, we get better with age or at least that is what Mark Twain observed with his father. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I realize you have major things to deal with concerning your D, but just remember you are her best, and biggest protector. So, I would talk with her, listen to her about her fight with BF, and ENJOY these two years. Be there for her 16th, I doubt seriously that you will regret it.

God Bless,

JL

PS: My experience is that girls can be a bigger pain than boys at this age, but boys are more frustrating. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for the cruise, I agree. Don't go. It is your D's 16th after all. You mentioned you were in PlB. That is a PlB?? There is a thread in JFO about the PlB wagon, which I must say you seem to have fallen off of. PlB means NO contact. Period. An apology is in order though, not for your feelings, but for the way in which they were delivered. I would let her know the feelings are genuine even if the delivery was disrespectful. But NC means NC!! If there is contact then it is not PlB. Period.

MTD

Thanks for all of your valued opinions. I did feel a need to cancel the trip and did so earlier. I can take other trips but there is only one 16th B day. Don't know why I had so much problem figuring that initially. I was up in the air about an apology to WW.

Although I meant what I said, it was really disrepectful. I guess a retailiation in frustration to her unbelievable "inslavement" to the OM.

I sent flowers (not roses though) asking for her forgiveness. Hopefully that wasn't taken as a folding on my part.

What's done is done.

Monty:

If she views your limited interactions as a "battle", then yes, she probably does think she won this one with you sending the flowers. But so what? You may have prolonged your need 2 do plan B is all. LB? Heck yes, but again, so what? You ARE human. You do need 2 get the LBing under control, and I believe you are. But then, it 2k ol' 2long a good 15 months 2 stop LBing much worse than you just did. When you do, and when the A starts 2 burn out, you'll be amazed at the ease with which you'll handle any upsets that might follow.

Good that you canceled the cruise. D's are women, mostly, and women remember dates like that for the rest of their lives, maybe longer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"In spite of all, I can't make myself file. I have been in the lawyer's office 3 times and after talking to him, he said don't file, your not ready. Of course I still had to pay his fee."

I like this guy! I don't think I've ever heard of a DV lawyer that would recommend you NOT file. He's also very perceptive. Has he been 2 MB? Was his M subjected 2 infidelity? ...you don't need 2 answer that. Just tell him "thanks" for me for being one of the few, if not the only lawyer interested in your feelings at least as much as your money.

Best,
-ol' 2long