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#2985221 11/04/03 09:57 AM
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As a OW/WW I have spent 3 yrs in C. I have learned so much about myself and others. I only wish I had learned it before I hurt myself and others.

I visit MB site and seen the same painful events happen over & over again. I feel compelled to give some insight from the OW or WW in which case I am both. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I the OW seem to be the outgoing, confident,mostly positive, caring person. I like to do things for people, and often found if fun and challenging to help evryone. It made me feel accepted & needed. I would also have friends. Guess what, all of that was selfish on my part.

You see a person that enters into an A is nothing more than selfish. Yes,all of us are selfish, but those of us who choose to enter into an A has the ultimate trait of selfishness!

Women that have A are perceived on the surface as caring, confident humans. Those traits are used for selfish reasons. They do those things in the name of caring because they want to get something out of it...Attention, Love, Soulmate, Emotional stability, Friends. We will go to great lengths to accomplish it. What we don't see or won't see is,none of that is achieved in an A or any relationship.

As a OW/WW I have been in that trap several times. (only one affair, but several relationships) I felt loved when I was helping a man though hard times and he in turn would help me. (Sometimes my needs were embelished) Of course, we both thought it was love not realizing our selfishness would eventually eat away our relationship, as it did several times. People in A only see the good in each other, because it is "new". Often we will be very interested in the "new" ideas of the other person.

We mistake that this new love will be different. "I've learned from my mistakes" I won't make them with this person. Well guess what?? When selfishness "love" has driven us to enter into an A, why do we think it will make for a good relationship anytime, especially when it formed from a dishonest start, which is what an A is. It will never work! All A are dishonest and trust has been broken. It would only be a matter of time, usually 2 yrs that the relationship would sour. Statistics prove that.

I thought, made myself believe, I wasn't a selfish person. My "caring" traits made me feel better, as I learned from C. Looking back, I had an outstanding acting career, I not only fooled others but also myself. In the process of my selfishness in my relationships I hurt people. Some moved on and some will have terrible scars.

In each new relationship, I for one increased my expectations for the one I "fell" for. They seem to have salary increases if you know what I mean. It was due to working eviroment or access I would be at that given time. I am able to know which men are in need or my "caring" trait. Did I say "caring"??This is not to say I don't care..I used it in the wrong way. I of course I would get something out of this man. Soulmate, Trust, Emotional help, Love.

How could I or any WS,OW,OM think in the long-run that any of that would come from a relationship with 2 people that are selfish enough to break marriage vows and trust. Oh, I forgot we are "caring". "Caring/Selfish" enough to care what they will get out of the relationship, a person who needs me and will appreciate me.

You see I have learned a lot about this person that is "caring/selfish". I would seek advise from men and women, they in turn had their egos stroke and a friendship would form. I would be "caring" at all cost even for the assumption I was in love. I do need to be loved, that is an inborn desire, but OW/WW use good traits "caring" for selfish reasons. We want to "care" for others because it makes us feel needed, appreciated, therefore we feel good about ourselves. Loved, we think.

Women generally have a knack to know when and how to emotionally need/use other people. We know how to make others, especially men feel needed, in turn to get what we want all in the name of love. SELFISH.

When it is all said and done the truly unselfish loving person is the BS that chooses to stick with their WS. That is LOVE. That is the unselfish human being we all would forever want for a spouse. If we could all be so lucky.

A word to all you men who emotionally need someone. Speaking as the OW/WW there are common give away clues that encourage women to seek out and "care" for a new man. These are a few I noticed, I'm sure there are more. 1) Drug/Alchol problems. 2)Working long hrs.(there's either no wife, or wife isn't important). 3)No pictures of wife in work area. 4)Very little, if any mention of wife to co-workers, only talk of children. 5) Converstion of wife/marriage is somewhat neg. 6) Health problems. 7) Relationship problems (work/home).

These are all clues to perceptive women.(most women are perceptive) You are men that seem needy to a needy women, and selfishly that need is mistaken for love. I found through my relationships different needs for different men, and I would use my needs to get to his needs.(usually whatever I found was important to him) Aren't women sweet? This is not to say men don't play a big part in the A. Those of us that chose to have an A or enter into a relationship can only find out later that it was selfishness not love that fueled the "caring" relationship.

I hope this will prevent an A or help all who think they are in love with another person. We fail to recongize that this "new" person is also selfish or they would not be involved. We may be caring but, obviously we aren't, or we would have cared and worked it out with spouses. We are needy, not caring. When entering into anA and think of marriage to that person, we are only appeasing our immediate need of being needed. What the hell makes us think day to day life would be anything, but hell, with 2 people who came together as a sounding board of "caring/selfish" therpy.

What good trait either of us have would vanish due to the selfish circumstances we came together Two of my men were great guys, but they had their faults contrary to what I wanted to believe. I learned some things that will make me better from all the relationships, but that doesn't make those relationships work. The selfish act of A destroys the relationship. I am not a Christian per say, but I have heard about the bible. If the bible is true or not, it makes sense why 2 adulterers would fall out of love, if they ever were in love. The relationship would be hell.

Is anyone awake?? I have put most to sleep I'm sure. Please do keep these thoughts in mind when the opportunity comes to become involved with OP. Put your energy in your marriage. Those of us that have ended a marriage should not even consider a new relationship for awhile. My thought is 2 yrs or more. If you are dating now, don't get involved with someone that has just ended a relationship, they too need to have time.

#2985222 11/04/03 10:05 AM
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Thank you, your insight on this makes a lot of sense and may explain at least some of the situation that I am in.

#2985223 11/04/03 10:26 AM
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I wish I was reading this at home so I could respond better. Uncle Sam might take issue for me responding like I want too.

Selfishness is exactly what it boils down to. After you strip away all the excuses and vain attempts at blaming addictions, people or our childhood, it comes down to being selfish.

Great post. God Bless

#2985224 11/04/03 12:40 PM
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Yourstruly1999 ~ thank you for some very helpful insights here. I think you've tagged some of the key factors involved in the human condition -- SELFISHNESS!!

By the way, your level of understanding is quite in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ. You would find the Bible most interesting with what you've discovered. You would also find it most comforting as you move forward.

Thanks again! I'm copying your post to my keeper file for future use, it was that good!

#2985225 11/05/03 01:06 AM
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WOW!...
That has got to be the most eye-opening post I have ever read on these boards. I am a WS currently having an A. Daily I read the boards and take a little bit from each post I read each time hoping that it will sink in and that I will be able to finally end this A. This post was amazing and so thought out. It really made me take a good hard look at myself and my A. I feel that I am ready to leave my wonderful husband because I just cant stop these feelings for OM and I realize how unfair it is to my H.

I am going to paste this post to a file also and read it until I just get it! As much as I didnt really want to hear all that and want to believe that I am meant to be with Om and that in the end everything will work out, I know that you make so much sense and that what you posted was a reality.
Thanks again...hopefully I will believe what you say and find the strength to stop this A.

ME 33 WS
H 33 BS
Kids D,12, Sons 11&8
Married 13 Years
EA six months
PA four months

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: meandgctbe ]</small>

#2985226 11/05/03 01:28 AM
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To the selfish (which all of us are to some degree): What is done WITH you, can be done TO you. Tomorrow your 'soulmate' may find his/her own 'soulmate' and you are going to be in the same place your BS is right now.

#2985227 11/04/03 06:35 PM
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

#2985228 11/04/03 07:16 PM
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Verrrrry interesting, yours truly.

Not only why people have affairs, but some of the mechanics of how and who is the A "target" and why.

Now I am wondering: this is a female perspective. Would love to hear similar thoughts from a male WS.


*S*

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: *Sparkle* ]</small>

#2985229 11/05/03 08:04 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by d_rose:
<strong> I wish I was reading this at home so I could respond better. Uncle Sam might take issue for me responding like I want too.

Selfishness is exactly what it boils down to. After you strip away all the excuses and vain attempts at blaming addictions, people or our childhood, it comes down to being selfish.

Great post. God Bless </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

#2985230 11/05/03 08:23 AM
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HELLO ALL

Any men out there agree or disagree with my post Why We Have Affairs?
What do you think Rippedin2 and Doug?

Affairs blind us so badly,that it feels like love!

Women What do you think? It seems like love doesn't it?

Affairs are a very cold span of time in ones life, the dishonesty hurts us, yet the excitment of a "new" person that needs us keeps us going. Selfish

Speaking of cold...this snow could go away. It's going to be a long winter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

#2985231 11/05/03 11:03 AM
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Yours,

I am not a WH, but I thought that I would reply from what I, no I should say my H learned in IC.

I am pretty sure he would agree with what you said. It fits with the dynamics of his A and with what the xMOW said to me about her motivation. Does she realize the full extent as you do, I don't think so, at least not when I last spoke to her.

It came to be by talking and embelishing and then wanting to make the other feel better, bc it made them feel better. You are right it comes down to getting something from someone at everyones expense. My S says with conviction.."If I truly cared about her we wouldn't have had an A, an A isn't a sign of true caring love, it doesn't seek what is good for the other in truth, that is the fallacy of an A"

Truly, I am just wondering, and you certainly don't have to share, but have you told your H about what you have learned about yourself?

Thanks for the post.

AG

#2985232 11/05/03 11:17 AM
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No Grace, we divorced. At the time I thought it was love for the OM, I was seeing some good changes in my outlook on life. Selfishness I wasn't thinking of my H. He has some faults, but instead of truly working on what I can do for the marriage, I was Selfish and ended it.

The A brought much wanted attention, and I chose that over my marriage. Selfish

Have I said that word enough!!!!

#2985233 11/05/03 12:26 PM
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i'm sensing there's a theme here but i can't put my finger on it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

#2985234 11/05/03 12:51 PM
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Hello yourstruly,

I re-read your post several times. The insight you have gained is incredible. A lot of what you said I had concluded (from my perspective as BS).

Now, here is a question I would like to ask: When you were in your A, how did you gain help to try to sort out your thoughts? How did you gain this insight?

I suspect through counselling and a lot of honest self-reflection.

My WH is still in his A, although it may be in the death throes as I speak. Since before embarking on his Affair journey, he has gained support from another WS, a work colleague, who I believe never truly worked his own issues out and is now projecting these onto my WH's life. This "friend" does not view affairs as you do. His point of view (and that of my WH) is A's happen because the M has become so intolerable that the WS is FORCED to find affection/love/sex outside of the M. In this world view, the blame lies at the feet of the BS ....

However, my WH is wracked with guilt, and has been now for probably 12 months. So maybe he will come to realise that this explanation doesn't quite add up.

I suspect that whilst my WH is still under the wing of this Jedi master, he will never recover himself.

What do you think?

#2985235 11/05/03 04:07 PM
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Whippit glad you got the theme!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Enigma, First of all, I didn't gain my insight while in the A. It was after. During an A & for a time after ending the A one doesn't necessarily think reasons "caring"/selfishnes is what really is fueling the A. We think and believe that it is our concern & the need to be needed/appreciated that makes us go forward and become involved with someones life.

We are "caring" for a person and getting something in return. As I said before, being a soulmate & attracted to an individual doesn't bring on love. It is the "feeling" of love. It is easy to love someone when they are meeting your needs. How selfish is that?

The people in the A don't stop and think they both are selfish or the A wouldn't have taken place. "They", I say now instead of I, since I no longer am that selfish person, are being selfish to each other. That is why statistics show marriages from A, never work, with exception possibly physical abuse. In which case, once in a great while the marriage works if the non-abused person has been out of a relationship for some time.

Hope your H realizes this before it is too late. You my dear, shouldn't have to wait around too long for him to get over it. He is the one that has done the damage, it is time for him to fix it

Men and women during the A and ending the A have a hard time, only because they think it is love. If they will admit why the A happened, which is selfishness only other reason would be physical abuse (that is not selfish) they would know it wasn't love.

We all know what all the reasons one gives to have an A. Blah,Blah,Blah. Been there done that!

We have to move on and take that emotional need we think is love, out of the equation. Why would I want to be with someone that fooled around on his wife. I do know he was a good person in many ways, but what kind of trust would there be knowing he left his W. In my case, it could be said the same about me. I left my H. So the story goes.

Enough said....yourstruly.

#2985236 11/05/03 04:42 PM
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You make a good case. Perhaps your theories strike sympathetic chords in some, but it just doesn't seem to fit my case. I think the one thing we can agree on is that affairs are an act of selfishness.

I'm more inclined to accept the Harley explanation: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html

I think sometimes an affair may be a desperate act to fill emotional needs long neglected (for whatever reason).

In my case, my wife and I were having difficulties with sexual relations due to medical issues. I tried to "buck up" and pretend that I didn't need SF, that it wasn't that important to me. I was deceiving myself. I began spending long hours working on charity projects with the OW. One thing led to another...

I try to look at myself more honestly these days. I know what "pretending" can do.

Low

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

#2985237 11/05/03 05:27 PM
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Hi Low,

Harley's explanation is correct, going right in line with what I stated about selfishness.

It still is about being selfish enough to meet our needs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

#2985238 11/05/03 05:43 PM
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The problem with relying solely on the unmet needs explanation for affairs is that all of us have unmet needs in our marriage at one time or another but not all of us have affairs so there has to be more to it than that.

#2985239 11/06/03 04:57 AM
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I During an A & for a time after ending the A one doesn't necessarily think reasons "caring"/selfishnes is what really is fueling the A. We think and believe that it is our concern & the need to be needed/appreciated that makes us go forward and become involved with someones life.

Just a hypothetical question: Consider someone who has ended their A years ago, is now "happily" remarried but still believes that the reason they had the A is because they cared and needed to be appreciated .....
Would I be right in thinking that such a person hasn't actually recovered themselves from the A?

Just a hypothetical question, about no-one in particular <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

#2985240 11/06/03 08:42 AM
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Enigma,

The need to be appreciated is a valid need and is very much one of the reasons I had my affair.

That didn't justify it. It's just a contributing cause. A pre-condition, if you will. Because I continue to recognize that this was a condition that led to my poor choices doesn't mean I haven't taken responsibility for the affair. I have.

So, no, I don't think you are correct.

Low

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