MiL is now urging WS to seek counselling - this is a new thing. She has not really pushed this before. She could have told him to seek counselling at DDay, or at any other point since, but now he seems to be bottoming out. She conveyed to me that he is feeling guilty and enquiring about my life because of that. And unfortunately, she has passed on info to him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> about my life. (it has all been pretty positive for the last 3 months or so)

She also reminded him that I want no contact until he stops seeing OW. He is still in contact with her - but as "friends"

It will be interesting to see what he does decide to do. I sense that he is near to breaking point - judging by how concerned MiL is. What really worries me is that I feel that I have moved on. I can't stand the thought of seeing him - I am so angry that he abandoned me for 6 months, I think he is weak and pathetic, I think he is a sick, sick person (read earlier posts) who doesn't deserve to be married to me.

There. It's all out in the open now. I don't think I am a MBer anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Not much to say, Enigma, except that I know the feeling. I just wish my MIL were alive! I do think in-laws can be great allies, as long as we recognize their ultimate loyalty is to their kids, not us.

as long as we recognize their ultimate loyalty is to their kids, not us.

No kidding A.M. MiL kept in contact with me because WS asked her to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What really worries me is that I feel that I have moved on. I can't stand the thought of seeing him - I am so angry that he abandoned me for 6 months, I think he is weak and pathetic, I think he is a sick, sick person (read earlier posts) who doesn't deserve to be married to me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Enigma,

When I was waddling at the end of my plan A, I think I asked Cerri, what she thought about me moving on to Plan B (as I was so reluctant). She said something in the lines, that I should be careful, she has seen it too many times. The BS stays in Plan A just a little too long, setting the love bank on the verge of total bankrupcy, then moves to Plan B, and when the WS suddenly comes around, BOOM! It is already over and too late for the BS to even think about going back.

I feel with you. I really truly do not know whether I could live another day with my WH. He never saw me, heard me or touched my soul. Because he filled up so much "space" in our home, even the kids did not feel heard or seen. Now I have been living alone for one month and I feel a sense of relief that is so warming. I can breathe again.

Do you ever get this feeling -> this Plan B is interesting, I am really curious to see if it has the effect one hoped for, like in the beginning of the plan, BUT NOW!, longer down the road you also feel terrified of what to do, if it REALLY works, because you are not sure you want it to?

I am not sure I´m a member of MB anymore. The key words being, I don´t know.

Take care!

-queen-

Hi Queen of a broke heart,

I didn't stay in plan A for very long - only about 6 weeks after finding out about the affair, but actually, I had unknowingly plan A-ed for the 6 weeks before DDay. The timing of Plan B is crucial - the BS must have enough left in the bank to be able to begin recovery, if/when Plan B has its desired effect.

There are a number of things that I found out about my WS after DDay which make me realise that he had tried to keep me in a cage in the marriage. I don't want to go back to that. Earlier this year, when all of this was still quite new, us being apart felt so utterly wrong. Now, being back together with him seems wrong.

Strangely enough, I am afraid that people will say I didn't give him a chance if/when he does come 'round because of Plan B. I realise how absurd this thinking is:- I gave him several weeks to come back to the marriage after he moved out, another 6 weeks after DDay, then another 6 months since Plan B. I just don't want him going off to his Mommy moaning that Enigma didn't try hard enough/it's all her fault (although he's been saying this all along anyway......)

How do you know when you've tried hard enough?? Is this enough effort for a 5 year marriage with no kids??? Although I have picked myself up and soldiered on this yea,r I realised a few weeks ago that I am totally exhausted. I resigned from my job and will finish in 2 months. Too exhausted to go through the upheaval of recovering this marriage.

So how do I tell him that the door is shut??? Or do I not tell him and wait (indefinitely) for him to come to me??

Enigma -

I think you said something really key, here: You don't want to go BACK to that.

That's great!!! You shouldn't, can't, won't go back to that. And I can see how the fear of that would be terrible right now.

So... make a list. What would a really GOOD marriage look like to you? What would it feel like? What would it sound and smell like? Write it all down. Allow yourself to daydream the perfect life.

Now, when you're done with that, try to separate the things you wrote into four piles:

- Dealbreakers
- Needs
- Wants
- Wishes

When you understand it that way, I suspect you'll find out that if your H can meet the dealbreakers and the needs, you'll be willing to consider it. If he can manage some of the wants, too, you'll be happy.

The wishes, well.... if he can manage to be a billionaire, never lose his hair, and still volunteer at the local food bank, more power to the both of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But the point is, you CAN'T go back to what was. You can only go forward into something better. It takes a ton of work and stress, I agree, and if the end result is something as cool as some of the folks in recovery have, wouldn't that be marvelous?

enigma - I feel like you after only 1 month in Plan B. Now that H is gone and I don't have to hear all his fog talk and have been alone in house, I realize how little he did in our marriage. It's like you're with your love, rowing a boat, and it's going along smooth, it's a beautiful day, you're feeling great, and then you start getting tired, but you keep rowing and rowing, and then look back to see your partner laying back and doing nothing. Don't worry about what others think, his family will take his side no matter what. My H's kids blame me for throwing him out. ("He didn't mean to do it"). His sister asked why I wouldn't reconcile - he keeps telling her he wants to. I explained that he is still with OW everyday. She says "But he's so sincere!" So anyway Plan B does work. It lets BS heal a little and get some perspective. I will never go back to the way things were. I feel sad about marriage, but not the heart-wrenching despair I felt before.But being a firm believer in the MB program, I'm going to stick with Plan B and not worry about the future. Good luck to you, don't give up, and keep reading and posting.

Plan B seems to be largely a matter of timing.

If you go into PlanB too late, then there is no desire left for the WS.

If the A is protracted and drawn out, the BS will move on.

Even though in Plan B we focus on ourselves, we still knows we are in Plan B. We gain a better perspective on the marriage, and on our WS. We keep track of how long it has been since WS last put us (and our families) ahead of the OP.

Eventually, (I speak for myself here) it reaches the
point where we realise that we are not the same shocked BS that so desparately wanted life as it was. And we dream about how we want life to be, and taking the WS back (brokenhearted because OW left him) just isn't part of that dream.

Enigma,

You are doing great. I would stop giving info. about your plan to MIL and reject info. about your WH from them. This contact is double edge sword.

Yes, plan B is giving you the strength to move on w/ or w/o WS. I would not reveal anything to WS even you "think" you don't want WS back. I say this since what if H is back and did the right thing and ammending you ?.

In my DV Care session yesterday talking about the "right" and the "responsibility" as Christian. We have the right to Dv and seek new relationship since our WS broke the covenant (only 2 Blibical grounds for this), however we have the responsibility as a Christian never to reject reconsiliation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (Unless the you or WS has new M). HE will help up to reconsile and bless us. I confess that I would still shut my door if exW ever come to my door and pray that I would be spare from the ultimate testing of my faith.

-rh-

Enigma,

The watch word here is "wait." Plan B is working, as is evidenced by your husband's actions. He is starting to come out of the fog, to test the waters.

But, are you still there? I asked myself the same question when my wife started peeking out of the fog while I was in Plan B. I said the same things about her that you are saying about your WH.

But the answer right now is that you dont know. And you dont need to know...yet! He hasnt broken through yet...so, everything is steady as she goes. But, you need to start preparing yourself. Because if your husband keeps on this path, he will end up on your doorstep.

Until he meets the conditions of the PBL, then he isnt welcome and nothing has changed for you. But, when he does, it is then that you decide. You are trying to make a decision now with a guy who hasnt yet changed, or changed the situation.

But what if next week, or next month, he comes out of the fog, is repentent, and meets all of the conditions? What will you say then? The answer to that question RIGHT NOW is that you dont know. And you wont until you are faced with the TRUE him, and TRUE repentence. Only then will you be able to make a decision.

Plan B was about protecting your love for him. The way I see it, it was like locking that love away in a vault. But guess what? Not only is it locked away, but while it was locked away, I couldnt see it or feel it. So, when my wife first showed up, I didnt think that the love existed. But in reality, it was secure behind the vault doors. Once she opened those doors thru meeting the conditions of the PBL, I realized that I did still love her and still wanted the marriage. But until the door had been opened by her, I thought for sure the love was gone.

Right now, things are easy. Your life isnt changing. But his is!! Let him do this. Then, when he shows up...and has made his amends and met the conditions...then you decide.

In His arms.

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Enigma,

Your post, and its responses, are the worst possible news and confirm my darkest fears.

It's true then, FOG TALK IS CONTAGIOUS!

Excuse me, "he didn't mean it"??? Believer, your kids mean someone tied H up and pulled down his zipper? Enigma, YOU didn't try hard enough???

Is there a pill we can take? Some sort of flu shot to keep us from picking up fog talk???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>Is there a pill we can take? Some sort of flu shot to keep us from picking up fog talk??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes there is, a darkest Plan B pill ... LOL !.

- Don't hear what WS/OP are saying
- Don't snoop
- Make sure people around you that you don't wnat to know about it.

Just wait until WS follows actions as stated in plan B.

You think you are in plan B ... but if you hear and monitor every single movement of WS, you are lessen the purpose of plan B. WS could LB w/o contact.

-rh-

A.m. - What I meant post to say is that his kids (my step-children) are mad at me beacause I threw H out after 4 months of an A. They rationalized (helped on by my WH I'm sure) that he did not mean to do it. His son was over last night and told me "I know you are hurt, but Dad didn't mean to hurt you". But anyway, back to Plan B.

A.M.

Everyone in the WS's world gets affected by the fog in one way or another. The WS, OP and all that come into contact with them. That is becase WS/OP are being selective in what they tell people, distorting the truth and embellishing their story. Bending the truth to try to fit their world. And they do manage to fool people for at least some of the time.

I KNOW I tried hard enough. I did what I could. I know that WS didn't try. Some time ago when MiL tried to tell me I didn't try hard enough, I asked her what she would do in my position... she didn't know, (she tried the tactic of "that would never happen to me") but the question was enough to make her stop and think at least.

Mortarman,

You are dead on about this situation.

I am speculating about an event which may never happen.

Better to keep on living my life (which it ain't too bad w/out him) and deal with the WS if/when he shows up.

And no go without Plan B conditions being met.

Thank you so much for reminding me of the objective.

Just lurking to see how its going...and have to pipe in to your last comment to Mortarman,

Thanks Mortarman for your reply to Enigma as it helped me too, the love in the vault thing gave bang on perspective.

Now its just about seeing whether the WH can find the RIGHT key!

Queen

Hey Claire

MM hit the nail right on the head. Are you an MBer anymore? - we all always will be at heart, because we did our best to learn through our mistakes, try to put them right, tried to recover our Ms. Not all of us do though. Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but you will certainly recover yourself.

Take care of you and wishing you well from London - but off to Cuba tomorrow!

Lisa