Hi There Folks,

For over a year I was obsessed with this site and message board and tried to apply everything I read and learned in my quest to save my marriage. Ironically I made a grand total of three posts during that time but I read hundreds. To all those who post a great deal, please know that I believe there are many out there just like me who did not/do not post a lot if at all, but read your insight regardless. I am willing to bet that most of you have no idea of the lives you've touched and the number of people you've helped. I know I fall into that category! Now here I am after being away from the site for almost a year and when I have a question this was the first place I thought to ask it. I stayed away from the site mainly because I hit a point where it was simply too painful to read and then as my healing process went on I focused on other parts of my life. Today I register anew to ask a question and here I am posting a reply to one thread and starting two others.

I am going to post my experience with my STBXW's EA/PA and some retrospective thoughts in the hope that I can provide even some insight to others in a similiar situation. I owe this forum that much and I should have done it before now. But that is not what this post is about.

I was married for 14 years and have two wonderful children. My W had a long term EA with an old friend that turned into a PA at some point last year. For almost three years I tried everything I could to save my marriage but it was in vain. After a number of separations and reconciliations last year, I finally made the decision myself to end the M last November. My W and I agreed to stay together for Christmas for the kids, but we slept in separate bedrooms. She moved out on January 3 and I can say the only feeling I had was one of relief. A few weeks later she asked me to try again, but I could not bring myself to go through it again. Over the span of two years she promised NC with the OM nine times and nine times my world was shattered, not to mention the damage it was doing to my boys so I knew, deep down, that there was no way I could try again. My instincts were proven correct when, three days later, the OM moved in with her. Since then I have moved on with my life and focused on being the best person I could be for me and the best Dad I could be for my boys. There were some rough times in the beginning, but I can honestly say I am totally content with who and what I am and have been for some time.

Now for the question. I have met someone and it feels very real. She and I connect in a way that is nothing short of amazing. Her situation is very similiar to mine although it was her H who left for the OW. We both recognize the fact that we need to take things very slowly and we are doing just that. It's hard because of the strength of our feelings but we are intelligent enough to realize it is best for us to take things sloooooowwwww. Now, to anyone who has been through a breakup, is this too soon for either of us to even take this step? My heart tells me no, that I have been ready for this for a while now, but a little part of me still wonders so I'd like to get some input from anyone who has been there. Is this even the right area to post this?

Many thanks in advance and God Bless!!!

Have you worked on yourself, and your issues? Hopefully you have. Otherwise they will come up again and again. If you have, then move on and like you said, take it slow. Good luck with your new life.

Hi Mov,

Welcome to MB. Thanks for reading and glad for what we 'unknowingly' may have done to help.

It is amazing you survived without much direct input from here. Do you have a good MC? More importantly, are U both divorced?

I know it is hard to take it slow when you both have been hurt so much. How long have u 2 been good friends? Is it ok with your children?

Can you both enjoy each other's company with friends and as friends for a bit longer?

How are your children?

Sorry for the questions, part of the MB territory - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

See if U 2 can take the EN questionnaire and read the book together His needs/Her needs by Dr Harley.

Maybe even give Steve a call.


Again, welcome to MB and please, don't be a stranger your post in turn will help many. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

I did indeed survive but I had a lot of input from here even if it was not directed toward me. A big part of it was knowing that not only were many people going through similiar situations but that there were so many people who cared. When I was reading this board it made me feel as if I was not alone and that was a huge thing for me.

I have had both MC and IC and I am content and happy with who and what I am today. I realize that I was not blameless in the failure of my M and I have identified my mistakes and worked on myself as an individual. I have no feelings of anger or hurt from my M anymore and the only feeling I have for my STBXW is pity. She left a good man and a good life to be with someone who is controlling and obsessive. She is also now pregnant with his child and she told me she feels trapped like she has never been in her life. However, that was her choice and it is her life to live. I do wish her the best and I do care for her as the mother of my children, but there isn't a shred of love left and there hasn't been for a long time.

As for my current relationship, yes we have both been hurt but it truly feels as if we are both past the hurt and looking forward to the future. We have known each other for a very long time - when we were both still married, she and her H socialized with my W and I. In the past months we have become the very best of friends and we've agreed to keep it that way for the time being. We are each actually getting a lot of pressure from our children to get together. Last week, we went to a movie and my kids were more excited than I was. They kept asking "Is this like a real date?" I picked up His Needs/Her Needs while I was trying to save my marriage and I still have it. We have read it together and done the whole EN excercise.

Neither of us are divorced as yet, even though we have both filed. Where we live here in Canada, a couple must be living separate and apart with no reconciliations for a period in excess of one year before a divorce can be granted. So it will be January before both of our divorces are granted. We are both resolute in the fact that we will not cross the line of being intimate until the D's are final.

We have both been hurt a lot in the past and we recognize that a truly successful relationship must be built. We acknowledge the sparks that exist between us but we want to build a solid R using our heads as well as our hearts. Maybe we are being too cautious, but we want a solid foundation for a long and loving R. It's oh so hard not to jump with both feet right now, but we will continue to build our friendship and our love. Oh Boy, a year ago I could never envision myself using that word again..............

MOMU -

Stay just friends until your divorces are final, you can wait two months. When will her's be final?

It looks like you tried your best to save your marriage, and it seems your heart is ready to move on. It's a hard decision and one that you don't seem to have taken lightly.

Is you WW still shacking up with OM?

Good luck.

way2

<small>[ November 06, 2003, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

Way2,

She is indeed stil with the OM. It seems like everytime I speak to her, which I only do when it concerns the children, she tells me about how badly she screwed up her life and how trapped she is. There are times when I want to give her advice as I would someone else in that situation. That advice would be to leave him and spend some time alone to sort out what she really wants in life. I have resisted doing that though because I don't want to give her ANY reason to believe that I want her back and that is probably the way she would take any such advice. Is that cold or selfish of me?

Give her advice IF she asks for it. You are not hurting her by not giving her advice...it would fall on deaf ears anyway.

You mentioned you and possible GF moving to the next step...what is that? And can you wait till the D is final? Hold off seeing or talking with each other till then?(it will only make you each fonder for each other...)

Moving:

"Is that cold or selfish of me? "

Absolutely not. You've learned, through painful experience, that your xW has 2 learn her own lessons in life. You can't inject her with wisdom.

I agree, 2, that if you were 2 give her the advice you are thinking, that she might indeed make the assumption that you want 2 try again, or that she can persuade you 2. "leading her on" like that, though you wouldn't intend 2 do so, won't be good for her or you.

I think you're doing the right things.

-ol' 2long

Moving,

I agree with everything you have said and with the advice you have been given. Having said that permit me to offer you some thing to think about.

You mentioned that you and your GF have known one another for a long time. You mentioned that you both have done the needs survey. You mentioned that you both intend to wait until divorced to become intimate. You mentioned that you two want to take it slow, but feel a strong attraction to one another.

Moving, these are all good things. But, let me ask you something I think is more important in establishing a long term successful marriage. Do you two have the same ideas with regard to handling money, doing chores, raising children, housing, clothes, future, where you will live? What do you feel about the marriage vows does she feel the same? Do you both have the will to make this marriage work if it took place?

If you to agree or have negotiated an agreement on ALL of these things AND both of your sets of children like the other person, then when you can marry do so?

I know it goes counter to many things said here, but I believe if you two have done your homework, then there is little else to learn by NOT marrying and waiting. The year waiting period to get the divorce is ample time to address your issues and her issues, and if this has been done as you say it has, then...

Moving, when it is right, it doesn't get more right with time, it just gets better once you start on your marriage.

My parents knew one another 4 days and were married for almost 5 decades until the death of one of them (this was not that unusual during WWII). They had a good marriage, they were very happy with one another, and they never regretted that decision. It might have sounded hasty, but in those 4 days apparently they did nothing but talk about what they wanted, how they wanted to live their live, their goals, their ways of handling things etc. It worked. I was told by both of them, that frankly they knew more about each other after 4 days than many of their friends seemed to know after 20 years of marriage. Why? They asked, they talked, and they saw eye to eye.

So my point is NOT to run off and just get married, but to do your homework, and if you two do agree with one another on the major issues: money, kids, sex, housing, values. Then you really don't need much more than love to go with it. If you don't agree, then hanging around each other is NOT going to make you agree and time is NOT on your side.

I do have one other question for you. Since your W is pregnant with OM's baby, and you two are still married, how does Canadian law address this issue? Just being nosey here,but here in US it could be a bit of a mess.

I liked very much your other post. I wish you the best and I hope you do continue to post every now and then to let us know how you are doing.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thanks for the input and you raise some very good points, points we have already considered. When I said in my earlier post that we were buidling our R withs our heads as well as our hearts, that is exactly what I meant. We have discussed everything from dishwashing to retirement planning (and everythig in between) and we agree on so much. Even the things which we have different views on (which are minor), we have been easily able to discuss and reach a compromise. It seems as if our previous experiences have taught us both the value of communicating and negotiating. It is because of our common beliefs and values that we both know how right we are for each other, and that is what makes waiting so difficult, but wait we will.

On the issue of marriage vows, we both feel very strongly about the vows and what they mean. It is for that reason that we are adamant about not being intimate. Despite our past experiences and the fact that it was our spouses who ended our M's, both of us feel that an intimate R before the D's are final would be an A in itself. Maybe where we are right now could be classed as an EA but I think we deserve that much.....LOL.

Just last night a friend of mine laughed at how we were handling it and asked me "Is it a relationship or a business partnership you're starting?" I responded that this is much more important than a business partnership, it is a life partnership. Probably not the most romantic of ways to get together with someone, but it does have it's merits. Actually it brings to mind a story a co-worker told me a few years ago about his marriage. He met a girl at a party and they got along so he invited her out for a coffee the next day. After coffee, they walked in the park and sat and talked on a park bench for over five hours. He said that, at the time, it almost felt as if they were "interviewing" each other. It became clear that they shared many common values and beliefs and at the end of the conversation, she asked him to marry her. He was shocked and asked why. She told him that she had been in one bad relationship and wanted someone who shared her values and beliefs. He asked "What about love?" and she responded "Love we will build". To make a long story short, he agreed to marry, they were married a month later and celebrated their 25th anniversary a couple of years ago. Maybe many people would be better off using their heads more than their hearts in starting relationships? In my case I'm trying to use both and so far, so good.

As for the question about my STBXW, the OM and the pregnancy, in Canada it is not even an issue. There is a "no fault" policy in the courts here and a judge cannot consider any actions during marriage when determining custody, support, etc. I have a good job and I am relatively successful financially. My W walked out and moved in with another man, he is too lazy to work (and so is she now) and I could have ended up paying large amounts of support to her. That means that even though she was the one who destroyed the marriage, I could have ended up being forced to support her, him and their baby. As it is, it took a big pile of cash to settle the sep agreement and get her to waive spousal support. How's that for justice?

Hi Folks,

OK, this may not seem strange to some of you, but the latest events of the past few days have been weird even by my STBXW's standards. I'd like to get some input on how to handle this one. As I said in the earlier post, my boys know about my friendship with this lady and are very supportive of it. Well, they mentioned it to their Mom the other day. Last evening when I went to pick them up, she made them stay in the house because she told them she had something to discuss with me first. She came out to the truck and she went BALLISTIC. She accused me of having an affair, said that obviously my love for her was never real, that I set up the whole downfall of our marriage and it was all a big plan by myself and G (my friend). She screamed about how this was going to destroy the kids and I was turning my back on them. She said a lot more, but that is the jist of it. She then ended the conversation by saying "I will get you for this!" This is a woman who walked out on her marriage, moved in with the OM within a matter of weeks, is now pregnant with his child and engaged to him even though she is not even divorced yet. Welcome to the twilight zone........ G and I remain where we were before, we feel the tremendous spark between us, but remain only very good friends until we each settle our own siuations.

Then today, she shows up at my workplace and tells me she needs to talk with me. Fearing a scene I went outside with her to try and talk some sense into the woman. Anyway, when we got outside she got teary and apologized for yesterday. Then she went on to say that she always felt she could depend on my love over and above anything else in the world, no matter what I had said since we separated (I have been VERY clear with her that we are done forever). She said that she has been envisioning lately that she and I will "get through this fog and find our way back together" (I'm not kidding, those were exact words). This from her even though she is still living with the OM and carrying his child. She said the only thing she feels toward him is an obligation because he left his W for her and is simply trying to figure out a way to end it "gracefully" I told her politely but very firmly that she and I were through, that our M was over and I had no interest in trying again. I said it was her choice that ended the M but now she would have to live with it because I simply cannot go back. She didn't accept it and left saying that we will be back together and she is not going to give up.

I cannot stress enough that I do not want my STBXW back EVER. I am past that stage in my life and have healed and moved on. I have found someone new and the reason we are taking it very slow is for us, not because I am not sure. We want to build our R properly. The problem is, how do I get this through to my STBXW? I am tempted to advise her to end her R with the OM and sort out her own life only because I believe it would be best for the children that way, but I can't do that because she would take it as a sign I want her back.

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated........


B

Moving:

In my view, you and G have your heads very much centered on your shoulders. I'm very proud of you both!

"The problem is, how do I get this through to my STBXW? I am tempted to advise her to end her R with the OM and sort out her own life only because I believe it would be best for the children that way, but I can't do that because she would take it as a sign I want her back."

I don't think you can. She needs 2 learn these hard lessons on her own. This is a case where 2MCM's input would be really useful, because it sounds similar 2 what he went through.

I think your xW is just very, very slow 2 learn life's lessons. She may learn them even2ally, like 2MCM's xW did, but it's already 2 late 2 reconcile with you. What she needs 2 learn is how 2 co-parent with you without interfering with your fu2re with G. She's not in a place, emotionally, where she can do that now. And she's clearly not in a position 2 be able 2 take advice, any advice, from you or anybody else. She's still denying she did anything wrong. And until she can recognize her part in the breakup of her M and take responsibility for her fu2re, it's going 2 be a bleak fu2re indeed.

I can only hope that, as she "doesn't give up", she realizes that giving up on HERSELF was never an option, and that once she "finds herself", she can lead a happy life without having 2 "get you back." It's sad when it's 2 late for reconciliation, but it isn't the end of the world. Rather, it can be the start of better things for her. But that's for her 2 figure out. She's no longer going 2 be your responsibility.

best regards 2 you, your kids, and G!
-2long

2Long was talking about me so I guess I'm not going to die today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh yeah I can relate to your stbxww not accepting the reality that the marriage is over for my xww was doing the same when she found out that I was involved with another woman (my present W). Maybe it was because we had been married for 15 years that she thought that I would always be her H. She was even still trying to convince me to take her back earlier this year (despite my committed relationship with my then fiancee now wife), but it wasn't until I married my present W in May, that she finally 'saw' that it was indeed over between us and has since stopped all attempts at reconciliation. Just a few weeks ago I got an e-mail from her saying that she was sorry for all the pain and misery she caused me and the girls and that she finally understood that I more than deserve the happiness I have found with my W, and to please pray for her so that she too in the future can become a woman worthy of man's love and the honor of the title of wife to said man. Both my W and I have prayed for her (she is afterall the mother of my children). If you are a religious man I would ask that you also pray for your stbxww, the mother of your children.

P.S. Just to clarify any misunderstandings, I met my W a year AFTER my divorce.

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>