Am I the man who can't take no for an answer? WW has been at her mothers for 6 weeks now not wearing her Wed ring anymore says that she doesn't love me and doesn't want to work anything out right now. She has had not spoken to OM for 2 months but has seen him at work a few times. He initiated NC and is still with his W. We talked last night and the conversation, as usual, went back to how she feels about him. She told me that she can't believe how stupid she was to fall for him and how she feels like less of a person because she feels used and he chose to stay home over her. She cant understand how he could say the things he said to her and not honor his word. Feels like she wants to talk to him about the way it ended but knows that she shouldn't. Bottom line she is still in serious withdrawal from him and is missing him badly. She says she would never go back to him but I say who knows what she wants right now.

When I talk about us she just says that "No I don't love you right now" and "No I don't want to come home" " I like being alone and being able to do what I want when I want to do it" "I know it will probably bite me in the [censored] but I don't want you to wait for me" she admits that we were happy before the A but, we both agreed, were not happy for the last year and a half. She doesnt want to divorce yet. She said she would go to counciling but says she will be honest with the councilor and tell them she does not want to save the marriage right now and sees no sense in going. I have to agree with her what will it accomplish? She says she is living day by day and she doesn't know what she will feel 2 weeks from now. I am beginning to think that there is no hope! I have been doing my best in Plan A but see no change in her. From my conversation last night with her I know now that she loved him more than she has ever loved me, or anyone else, and is still heartbroken over loosing him. They have been close friends for 15 years and had EA for 5 months before the PA of an additional year. Can/will she get over him? Is there any hope for us? Do I wait? How long? or just move on and look for another woman? I have no F-in idea anymore. I love her with everything I am and want to make it work but I am plain old LONELY.

I feel if I go to another woman for "companionship" I am doing the same thing she did! We are still married after all. I have been faithfull to her for 14 Years and do not want to be the one to send the message that I have given up on the marriage. I HATE BEING ALONE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Devoted Dad,

I can't even imagine how hurt and lonely you must feel. I'm sorry you're going through this.

It looks like your wife hasn't been in withdrawal more than a couple of months; I hate to tell you, but it could go on for many months more. Of course, recovery time can be different for different people.

Even though the A was wrong, the death of the R is still like getting over the death of a loved one for your W. Addictions are very hard to overcome, and she also has to recover from being rejected by OM.

In my opinion, she needs time to get over OM before she can work on your M. It's up to you how long you want to wait for her, but if you get involved with another woman without getting D first, you know you'll just be adding to the emotional mess.

If/when your wife wants to work on the M, then YOU would be the one in withdrawal from your OW, and then your OW would be in pain, etc., and it will just go on and on.

If you want to save your M, hang in there. Take it one day at a time, one second at a time, if need be. I believe in prayer and will be praying for you. God bless!

Hi Devoted Dad,

I too am sorry for what you are going through.

You said your wife has seen this OM at work a few times.Do they work together? When exactly did she last see him? She has to keep starting from zero(withdrawal) every time she sees that person.Is that still an issue with her,seeing this guy? That might explain why she is still making comments like she is. She sounds like she is in a deep fog still.

PLEASE... DO NOT start another relationship right now. It would not help matters.There is already pain and confusion a plenty there. I know it hurts to be alone. I am 37 and dreaded the thought of not being without my husband BUT I have done a tremendous amount of work on *myself and facing my fears, one of which was possibly not being with my husband after being together for 20 years.

Also, just because you may end up being the one to ask for a divorce(IF that happens) try not to feel like it is YOUR failure. It takes 2 people to work on a relationship and it also can only go on for so long before there is nothing that can be done.Hard decisions yes but I think most of us that are BS's are trying really hard at making our marriages work and putting in many,many months and even years of work into the M but there is a cut off limit or our whole lives and well being are drained away.That time frame is to each, his or her own.

Have you done a Plan B yet? If you are at a loss as to what to do right now, start focusing on yourself more.I have mentioned in my other posts how I am doing that.If a Plan B and a NC letter wasn't done yet, that sounds in order too. Sorry if you did already, I don't know you that well.

October <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Devoted Dad

I don’t recall if you mentioned children except in your name. Do the two of you have children and who is taking care of them at the present?

Obviously, your wife still has strong feels for the OM. If OM had not broken off contact would the A still be ongoing?

You can continue with plan A with the hope that time will bring her around. However, if you are feeling the need for a relationship now is the time to take step that show your wife that you will not wait forever. You may want to start with baby steps before going into a full plan B.

Some suggestions to think about and discuss are as follows:

1) Apply for legal separation
2) Separate finances
3) Show respect and love for your wife (no LBs) but do not initiate contact
4) If children are involved negotiate a formal custody arrangement

You want your wife to know that you love her and want to reconcile the marriage but that you see no movement on her part and you intend to begin preparation for moving on with your life. She needs to see you take some actions that indicate that you will not wait forever.

Beau

have you tried being a little less available to your wife?

i ask because often times pursuit will make them back away. yet at the same time, they want to be able to contact you when they need someone.

there's nothing wrong with mking yourself scarce once in a while ... even if you just let the answering machine take the call. in doing so, she'll wonder what you're up to at a time when she expected you to be available. in other words, if you pull back, she'll pursue you.

in fact, she'll notice a lot more of these sorts of things. workout, take a class, make plans with your buddies a few times a month, get some new clothes, get a great haircut, change jobs.

of course, you don't have to do all of these things ... just a few.

in addition to sparking your wife's curiosity, you will keep your mind occupied with forward thinking and positive activity AND you'll feel better (especially if you exercise ... it elevates seratonin which helps mitigate depression).

one of the keys to luring your wife back is to be the more attractive choice for her. who would you rather be: a confident, successful and happier person, or a sad sack? i know who your wife would rather be with.

even though your wife is not in your house, you are still in plan A it sounds. so the goal here is not to pull back completely and go dark. don't tell her you plan to be out of the loop for a few days. just do it and see what happens.

and don't ask her to come home yet. try not to even approach the subject of your marriage when you do speak. give good conversation, listen to her, ask questions that engage her, and don't try to solve her problems unless she asks you to do so.

think of the sort of things you talked about while you were courting her -- you'll be surprised at how well things work in drawing you closer again.

Hi Devoted Dad

I'm sorry to hear whats happening to you. As long as your WW has any contact with the OM even seeing him, it tends to lengthen withdrawal time. She is still deep in the fog.

How long should you wait or Plan A, well that is up to you. How long can you take the hit in Love Units? Plan B when you feel that it is the only thing to save yourself and your Love for her. I would be preparing for it though.

DD, I can tell you that you need to wait before starting any other relationship. You need to personally recover. Also I wouldn't do it until a D is final. My younger brother is a perfect example of how not to do it. He has been married twice, and is now currently living with his current GF. (He's still married) His first marriage ended when his W started several A's, and I'm fairly sure he was doing the same. His second is the same. He never tries to fix the problems just jumps from one person to the next.

Just keep trying to meet her EN's, some of it does get through. Whatever the outcome, you will know that you've tried your best. You are only responsible for 50% of the pre-A stuff, not for any of the A. Work on changing the things that will improve yourself.

Keep reading all you can, keep posting and vent here.

God Bless

Thanks for the support guys. I know you guys truly understand the pain this causes for all people involved. I plan on sticking with plan A as long as i can. Our conversations are pleasant as long as we are not talking about our future. Talk of the kids and logistical things are the brunt of our conversations. I do ask about her days and try to make small talk. Sometimes she responds and sometimes not. I'll give the lettng her wonder about me thing a try and see how she responds to that.

In a previous post I was confused about wearing my ring or taking it off and decided to wear it but am now having 2nd thoughts. Would it send a negative message to take it off? Not too sure.

Hi again,

I don't know if she would even care about that aspect right now but for me, I will take my Wedding rings off when I am divorced,otherwise,I am still married and my rings will continue to be on my finger to show the commitment I made and still stand by at this moment.Do what your *heart tells you to, not what your wife may interpret.

Good Luck!

October <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

She needs to see you moving on with your life and even dating other women before it will register that she may loose you forever. As long as you are pursuing her she will take you for granted and continue to feel that she lost the love of her life.
My strong advice is to detach and stop interacting with her. The attention of other women will help you regain your self-confidence and masculinity. Stop playing the minor role in your wife's drama and move on. Life is too short to sacrifice your remaining years with a woman who is out to lunch.

Ummm.

I'm not sure I agree with you yosh. Do you really think he should be dating another woman in the midst of all this?? I certainly don't. Way too confusing and not right.If DD is anything like me he cannot fathom starting a new relationship until he is legally divorced. I really think people need a lot of alone time after divorce before they even THINK about another relationship.

I do agree with focusing more on himself and doing things he likes to do with the support of family and friends. He needs to show her how strong he could be without her by continuing on with his own day to day stuff and other activities.No wishy washy spouse mentality.

Just my opinion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

October

October - I'm kinda with you. I don't think 2 wrongs make a right! I have been faithfull for 13 years and don't feel comfortable starting something new just yet. I would not want to start something with someone and then have to end it to reconcile with my W. If she offers to reconcile I will bite! Thats not fair to do to anyone. As much as I need companionship I simply have to wait out my own feelings or her withdrawal of him. She sees him once or twice every two or three weeks so I do agree it is making it harder on her to come out of the fog. I just hope when she comes out shes not too banged up from the trees and stuff she keeps slammin into.

Let me throw this out there too.... The OM chose to stay home for "his kids" told my W that he has no feelings for his W but the kids and his W's money (she has an abundance of that) are making him stay home. Should the OMW know the situation she is in or is that her problem and I should keep my mouth shut. He was a friend of mine for 25 years and will be recieving the beating of his life <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> when I finally catch up to this slimeball but I really feel she should know where she stands.

Devoted Dad,

IMHO so long as you are married you should wear your ring. I don’t think you should date or form another relationship (EA) until you are divorced. Tell the OMW. She needs to know what is going on behind her back so that she can take appropriate action. Exposure is very powerful.

Below is a 180-degree list of actions to stop a divorce and bring WS around. Some of the suggestions fit nicely with suggestions you have already received. Look over the list and implement the ones that make sense to you. Some suggestion talk about the spouse being at home but you can rephrase the wording and understand the intent.

Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180-degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.

Beau

Devoted Dad


Sorry for information over load but a post in this section entitled

“Question for WS/FWD…. decision by 23down

“After the A ends, do you realize that there was something that the BS did, or something the BS could have done and didn't, to pull you away from the OP?”

Several interesting observations

Beau

Hi DD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me throw this out there too.... The OM chose to stay home for "his kids" told my W that he has no feelings for his W but the kids and his W's money (she has an abundance of that) are making him stay home. Should the OMW know the situation she is in or is that her problem and I should keep my mouth shut </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, IMO the OMW should be informed of this. Whats the worst thing that could happen. The OMW needs to know her situation.

Hope you have a better day

Hi DD,

I too believe that you should tell the OMW.Definitely.I agree with SonofWF,exposure is powerful.No Mr.Nice guy.Oooh,that could really be good.Can you imagine, once the OMW found out about the affair,she might just make him pack his bags and goodbye cashflow! That sure would change a lot of things in this equation.

I told my husbands family,not to mention my own, right after I found out about the affair and I even found OW's cell phone number and left a "sweet" little message that I knew what was going on and that it was not going to be "Fantasy Land" anymore. Here comes the pain!

If I remember correctly,you are still doing Plan A? If I were you,I would be doing Plan B bigtime.The fact that she is "leisurely" seeing this guy here and there,PROLONGING the slow,torture for you makes me want to blow my stack. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Now, I'm not you and you have to do what you feel is right but by golly,if my husband were dragging me along on this ride from H*** by continuing this half hearted relationship with OM knowing it was not doing anyone any good,particularly your wife who is as undecided and fogged as ever it sounds,I would get the heck off that ride and start making my life more enjoyable and I do that now by seeing my counselor alone in addition to with H,do stuff I want to do,focus on my two girls and taking care of ME.

I can't stress this enough. Inaction equals paralysis. If you wait for feelings,either your or your wifes to just ignite somewhere, you may be waitng a loooong time.

Action is the key.Get moving.I hope you are not wallowing in sorrow at home.That's what I did for too long(well for me it was a few weeks).Get out and about with family and friends,with your kids,seek activities that you enjoy and DO them.Don't let life pass you by regardless of how your marriage is going.It is really only one aspect of WHO WE ARE.We are not solely our marriages,we are dynamic human beings and there is so much life to be lead.That's my belief anyway.I hope I don't sound too overwhelming! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

October

Hey October

I have to agree with you and say that I do feel she is intentionaly "bumping into" him to see if he will falter on the NC that he initiated. She knows she should not talk to him but has told me she feels the need to talk to him about how it ended. She has always gotten everything she has wanted and for the first time in her life she can't have it. HIM. Unfortunately neither of them will be changing jobs any time soon so she will have to deal with it on her own. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I do however firmly believe that the A is over and has no chance of starting up again. My W has told me that she would never go back to him and how she wants to kick him in the family jewels for misleading her the way he did. Of course she wanted to believe what he was saying anyway! She is 100% confused about everything from who she is/was to where anything will go. She has told me and I believe her that she is living her life 1 day at a time and I strongly believe that she still has thoughts of harming herself over her feelings of grief of loosing the OM.

I will tell the OMW in time I just need to take care of something with the OM and need the threat of the OMW finding out about the A to make this happen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I will also become a better person because of all of this! I PROMISE THIS TO MYSELF AND ALL OF YOU! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Devoted Dad

You should take whatever actions you are planning soon (few days) and press immediately forward exposing the affair. You wife is still deeply in the "fog" and exposure will help jerk her back to reality. Combined with the 180 degree behaviors you may begin to she her thinking begin to consolidate in a positive way instead of this limbo she is in. You must twist the head off the snake - sooner than later.

Beau

Hi again,

Ummm,what's this "thing" that you have to take care with OM?? Hope it's not a slug fest <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just kidding.If you were going to "talk" to the OM about the threat of exposure,personally, I would not give him that courtesy,at all. Spring it on him the way it has been sprung on you.

Even though your wife *says she would never go back to OM,the fact that she sees him is probably still hurting the both of them.It is like peeling off a scab from a wound that is trying to heel.The body has to start all over again to try to heal that wound, Even though the major trauma was already done(don't mean to sound gross).It's just too bad that they work together.

My husband is finally coming home today after being away for two weeks in another city.He will not be working there anymore thank heavens but it sure put a big roadblock between us,even up until last night when I tried to get his cell phone and it was off,so we had an "argument" about that.I think if he was still working in that city and the potential for that OW to be at the group gatherings was still there, I would have lost my mind.But,divine intervention came into play,thankfully.It is so hard when our loved ones are with the OM/OW in their workplaces.I agree with Dr.Harley that a job change is necessary,someway,somehow.

Is your wife seeing a counselor? Sorry I don't recall. If you really think she may harm herself,she needs some intervention there.Based on what you have been saying so far,it sounds like she is a lost soul,going through each day without direction.It's sad that she can't get some gumption up to get herself more help.

I'm glad to hear that you are talking the good talk, that you will be better because of what you are going through just remember that you can be better starting today,not just in the end.

Well,I hope you can have a good day.I am going to try myself and think positive about seeing my H today.

October <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

October Hope all goes well with the H. I'll say a prayer for you both. Oh ya it will be a one sided slug fest with the OM. He WILL get his but kicked. Only prob is that he could arrest me if he chose so the threat of exposure will most definately prevent that from happening. Then while his physical wounds are healing the OMW will be informed as to why they were inflicted. IT sounds kind of evil but oh well....

Be very careful your emotions can get out of control. Don't want to read about you in the newspaper. He is not worth jail time.

Beau