I've been reading the boards for a short time now and have been quite reticent about posting and throwing my own heart into the ring. However, with the encouragement of meeting some very fine MB members at the Metreon yesterday (a high tec dining place) and some kind words from a total stranger, "Just J", I'm here asking for your help.

My story, though of a same sex relationship, seems to ressemble so many of your heartbreaking stories. I guess there's no way to tell the tale except in a long first e-mail, so if you're game, here goes.

My partner is having an A with an older woman (a friend of mine for 20 years - well, she was a friend of mine.) I actually introduced them years ago. They were seeing each other behind my back.

At first, WP said she loved both of us. Now she says she wants me as a friend but wants the other woman as her partner. She says she has no sexual desires for me at all. It's been exceedingly difficult as all three of us have the same friends and we are all musicians who, previous to this, played together in the same musical groups. Ironically, I supported the OW through many hard times including breast cancer. The OW has tried to talk to me, apparently to get my forgiveness and approval. My WP said things would be better for everyone if I could just accept and forgive. (She wants us all to be friends! To play music together etc. I just can't, emotionally). Somehow, I have come off looking like the bad guy.

We own a house together with land we've worked and have a large beautiful
dog. No children. We would have been together 11 years this spring (known each other for 5 years before that.)

There's been a lot of love busting and resentment on both our parts. However, she thinks it's just me because she can be cooler and more controlled than I can. We never used to fight at all. She makes more money than I do and so at first we discussed me leaving the house. That felt so wrong, to be betrayed and to have to leave what was my loving home. (We own it 50-50) .So I stayed and she pays a good portion of the mortgage and resents that. We've been apart now for 10 months. I'm as raw as the day I found out - the day after Thanksgiving. She actually moved out last February. However, she left the majority of her things (even clothes etc.) with me.

I see from reading these boards that I did a lot wrong. We've discussed our relationship at length ending in fights. She feels this other woman is her real mate and that she has a lot in common with her (they play the same instrument and are now doing a lot of music together.) WP feels our friends are judging her and seems to resent me for that. Actually, I don't talk to anyone about it, except for a friend of mine who has been posting on MB. We live in a very small rural town. WP says that she will take her time living in her new cottage on her own and then maybe move in with the OW (who has a boarder, so it's not so convenient.)

My WP and I used to play a lot of music together and she says she still wants to, it's up to me, she says, but she doesn't want anymore scenes or fights - she's sick of it.

I've cried a lot, in front of her and even writing this. It's hard to control but I am trying. I've never been so heart-broken. After reading some of MB, I have been trying not to say anything inflammatory but I am so hurt and depressed I can't hide it very well. After some harsh words, we decided not to fight and she wanted me to come over to her new place (she moved into a nice bachelor pad - a small private cottage) and play some music as "that would be neutral". We did, the music was great, but the end of the night ended badly again.

The next morning we were both upset so I called. It was like an emotional
hangover. But, we had a decent conversation and came to an understanding,
again, that neither of us wanted to fight.

Then, last weekend she told me she was having chest pain. She said it seemed muscular, but it hurt her. On Sunday, when I couldn't reach her on the phone at 7:30 AM to after 8:00AM, I was worried about the chest pain. So I ran over there as fast as I could.

Of course, dopey me... She wasn't home. Hadn't been home. The cat was outside crying to get inside and her outside night light was still on. I drove past OW's house. Two frosty cars, theirs, side by side. She had spent the night.

I'm almost finished with this e-mail...hang in there....here comes the part I need you for.

Currently, I'm keeping all contact to a minimum. I'm not ready for Plan B, and I haven't really
done a good Plan A. While I was with the gang from MB yesterday, with my permission she entered the house (that was hard on me!) with the intent to take more of her clothing. Truly, that was all she took - and left much of her stuff here still. She wants to come next week to talk with me about winter cleaning of our land.

What do I do?

I have to say that I am already much better after meeting MB friends and contacting Just J. If you are reading this you guys, Thank you.

Solo 1

Welcome, Solo! The boards can be kind of slow on the weekend, but should pick up tomorrow.

Great Rogers quote...

Welcome, Solo! I've read your story, so I'll keep quiet for a bit to see what others say.

I do want to say that I think the Plan B place is where you ought to be right now. I also wonder (and perhaps I'll check with Cerri on this) what the timelines for Plans A and B ought to be for same-sex couples. I have a feeling that gay and lesbian couples would be different in this regard. Not that there's lots of info to support any of it, but my guess is that Plan A should be short and Plan B should be long.

But that's only a guess.

Thanks. It feels good just to take this step.

Solo,

Given that you cannot help LB'ing her, and given that it hurts you to see her, and given that she doesn't seem to understand that this hurts you (just get over it and be friends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) I think you should be in plan B. It is time to see if losing you will in fact make a difference to her, it is time for you to adjust to NOT having her in your life, and move on with your life IF she does not want to leave OP. You also might want to discuss selling your house and make the split financial as well as emotional.

It sounds as if I am telling you to leave her doesn't it?? Well, in a way that is what Plan B is but it is done before all of the love is gone. That way if anything changes you still have enough to go through recovery. However with time your love for her will diminish, and it will make it easier for you to move on as well.

I have no experience with lesbian couples, but my guess is that the feelings are as intense and probably driven by the same things. I can only speculate on those points. So, for what it is worth these are the suggestions I would make for anyone else here, so that is what you get as well.

I do hope that if nothing else it offers you something to think about.

God Bless,

JL

You're right, Just Learning, it is as intense for a same sex relationship as it is with any other. You love what is behind the eyes, not the packaging. You love the heart, you love the soul.

I know I'm new to all this, but I can't see how Plan B would work for me. Since last weekend, I have stopped LBing and things have just started to get kinder. When I left a message Friday because she had my car registration stuff and I needed it, she came right over the next morning to bring it to me. We had a good interaction.

So to begin with, shouldn't I put some love back into the bank first? And two, the nature of our small community is going to make it very difficult not to see her. And three, I'm actually barely communicating now. Just enough to address common issues relating to the house and other business. I've totally stopped discussing the relationship.

Thanks for posting to me. I appreciate it.

Solo 1,

Sorry, I got distracted with trouble1 and *LULU* but you have a good discussion w/ Orchid. Let me try to pitch in some sense and oppinion. First instinct is plan B ... but is that you really want ?. You have to find the strength to stop LB within your pain and hurt. You have to and you have no choice. Sorry. You have control over this ... get Love Busters book to get specific help. Quick steps guide in LB:
1. Identify instances of paticular LB
2. Understand why you react that way
3. Identify and avoid conditions (triggers) that lead to LB
4. When you think you can't .. get people to help you out, support group that would hold you accounatble. It might be as simple as calling someone when you think you are going to LB.
5. It won't be easy. It is habit that you have to loose.

If it is sound clinical, I took it right out from Harley's suggestion on avoiding LB.

My 2¢. If you could identify the trigger (feeling/emotions/words) then you put your self into slow motion if you want to take the next actions (LB). Delay what you want to do/say as long as possible and reason out your LB with why you shouldn't. If you sind something to conteract the triggers ... you should be in automatic mode to repeat it next time the trigger comes.

What has worked for me is I imagine that my WW (now eX) would cry to OM about me !, how evil I am.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>What do I do?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Time to get real !. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A ! Practice w/ AM Martin on what you might talk about. No R talk ... not at all !. If you are not ready, you could tell SO that you will find time to talk about this later <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . You could have get to see her again to plan A.

If you think you can't plan A then you have no choice to plan B ... but know that you are in a very slipery road. You start Plan B w/ full of LB. Actually you have no choice but to plan A or at least show that you don't LB before you go to plan B.

-rh-

Dear Redhat,

It's very nice to hear from you. You make a lot of sense regarding LBing. And I firmly avow to work on this.

After reading MB, I realized how my emotions were ruling me and the direction I needed to take. It is destructive behavior for me as well as for the relationship. I think I'm in a better place to handle it now thanks to the support I suddenly have.

I thank you for all the good suggestions.

Can you explain what you meant when you wrote this?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you are not ready, you could tell SO that you will find time
to talk about this later . You could have get to see her again to plan A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Solo

You should avoid R talk for now and just work on avoiding LB. If she presses you should buy time 'till you are ready. I don't think you should talk R at all for this meeting w/ her.

Buckle up ... this is just the beginning of roller coaster of your live.

Welcome to MB ...

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Buckle up ... this is just the beginning of roller coaster of your life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ooooKAY. Well, at least it gets me off the merry-go-round I've been on.

Solo

shameless bump

I think I have to agree with redhat. You need to Plan A ... for the simple fact that you haven't done a GOOD Plan A. If you can avoid LB, you will be depositing into her LB. That's a good suggestion to imagine that she is going to OP and telling about your conversations. Kind of like being on Candid Camera, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you LB at all, it's straight to Plan B. And that means absolutely no contact with her. She would need to see what life would be like totally without you.

Hang in there! It's a long road. I've not been on it too long, and although it is extremely treacherous, the other side will be fantastic!

Hey Solo - good to see you on the board (well, not *good* - but you know what I mean!)

I have such a conflicting set of thoughts for you. In terms of the way things are right now, I think Plan B would be best for your relationship. No talking, no playing music, no part of her in your life. It's not as hard as it sounds, except for the emotional part.

But...but...you're right, you never gave Plan A a chance. I'm not sure you can walk away knowing in your heart that you did all you could to save your relationship. I hate the idea of "winning" someone back - I don't think of relationships in terms of winning and losing. But if there were problems in the relationship that contributed to her looking to have her needs met elsewhere, you deserve to have the chance to show her you can do that as well.

So - what a completely non-helpful post from me!! do you have a sense about what needs weren't being met, on both your parts? It sounds like in both your relationship and her new one, recreational companionship was being solidly met. And you mentioned that SF was being met in the new relationship, but was that always a problem?

I guess that's one of my concerns about a successful Plan A - do you know what her needs are so you can pay attention to trying to meet those even if you're not together?

Love to you!!

K

Dear K,

It's good to hear from you.

Well, on the question of Plan A needs: in the beginning of the A, WP said there was nothing wrong, she was just more attracted to OW and said she could love two people. Now she says the issues are financial, sex and being her own person, having her own friends etc.

I have never had a problem with her being independent. She, however, is more of a one-on-one person and never has had a lot of friends. She also tends to stay home a lot and practice.

For me, the main issue has been more affection but she said she is not a demonstrative person. She is also less social than I am, so often I would do things solo.

I still feel that I can totally avoid LBing (I'm feeling a little more confident these days with a lot less self-pity) and I would like to know that I did everything I could to save what was a beautiful relationship before the A. Then, if I have to go Plan B, I will be ready. I am not ready yet although my Plan A is not overt. (I don't try to contact her at all.)

I think I understand Plan B more than I understand Plan A (?) - at least in my case.

Warm thoughts to you K!
Solo

Solo, I'm going to go a bit out on a ledge, knowing as I do both the lesbian community and what Plan A is all about.

For you, I would think that Plan A would be doing every single thing that your WP wants you to do with her. Every time she wants to play music or whatever, you take advantage of it. And every single time that happens, you're completely focused on one thing: Being "friends."

Yes, I know that's not what you want. And that is NOT what you'll say. It's simply the mindset you need to be able to do this. Think of her as a friend that you really like to spend time with. No more than that, no less. Forget the past. It's over and done. Right now, she wants to be friends? Great! Be friendly.

Be honest, too, that you want to rebuild your partnership with her, but don't bring it up unless she does.

So. If that's what Plan A looks like for you (and I understand that there is very limited contact), how long can you do it WITHOUT LBing? No tears, no yelling, no fights, no upsets, nothing. How long? Can you do it for six weeks? Four weeks? Three months? You tell us.

And then we'll plan you through Plan A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just J. - Being out on the ledge feels good to me. Fresh air.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For you, I would think that Plan A would be doing every single thing that your WP wants you to do with her. Every time she wants to play music or whatever, you take advantage of it. And every single time that happens, you're completely focused on one thing: Being "friends."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok. Does this mean I wait for her to initiate any contact? She is basically respecting my distance knowing it is to heal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how long can you do it WITHOUT LBing? No tears, no yelling, no fights, no upsets, nothing. How long? Can you do it for six weeks? Four weeks? Three months? You tell us.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want to do it anymore - at all. I think I can stick to this aim. I just need to keep myself busy inbetween times and I am.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And then we'll plan you through Plan A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, please.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Interesting, Solo -- I wanted you to come on here because I wasn't sure whether you should be in Plan A or Plan B. Looks like everyone has exactly the same ambivalence, though slowly moving forward with a consensus.

Hey, give me a call! I was on MB radio today!

Hmmm. "I don't want to do it anymore - at all."

Hmmm. Okay, Solo, 'nother question for you. Go sit still for this one. Still and quiet and peaceful, and then let the question and its TRUE answer show up. You know the ones. The ones that go something along the lines of "No, I DON'T love being a mommie today! I can't stand it! I just want to send DD back to her other mommy so that I can think for five seconds!"

I know you're not a mom, but you get my drift. And then turn it over and over and look at what you really do want.

Then come back and talk to us about it.

Solo, I probably won't be of any help to you - I am the WW in my situation, and I am very new to this site as well. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone because you are lesbian - My best friend is, and is in your exact situation (almost). Love is love, and relationships are relationships no matter if it's H/W or same-sex. I just told my friend about this website, but was reluctant about her posting because it was all married people - seeing you on here gives me hope for her - thankyou for being brave and posting!! and good luck to you!

Felina, if your friend is reluctant to post here, please have her contact me offline at justj_mb@yahoo.com. I'd love to talk to her, and I know how hard it is to find someone to talk to when you're in a same-sex couple that's plagued with infidelity. It took me ages to find someone to talk to, and I'd like to be able to "pay it forward" to others who need it.

And also, please encourage your friend to post here. I think this is one of those situations where the internal fear of being treated badly is considerably stronger than the actual likelihood of it happening. People have been uniformly great to me here, even when they challenged my viewpoints and actions.