Ok I think I have a problem and am looking into C for this? But for now I think I need all your expertise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Here is goes, after 15 months in the hellish cycle of back and forth between me and OW he’s moved into his aunts home. Last week I decided I couldn’t take one more lie (this after finding out he has TWO!!!! Cell phone numbers), I told him I was confused about my feelings towards him and we needed to be apart. He gave me his sad story of his love for me, of letting me work out my feeling, of staying away from OW and proving to me he could, of getting himself back on track before contacting me! Which is all good and dandy since I was the one that told him I couldn’t continue contact, but he said if he called on Thanksgiving would I accept his call? I agreed and Guess who didn’t call? Yep he didn’t call and I know why, because he was with her!

But OK I’m rambling on, what I need help with is the fact that I maybe going through a withdrawal? Is that even possible? For a BS to go though a withdrawal from a WS? I want to call him so badly and ask what he did and Why didn’t he call? I sound like I am 18 and going though my first breakup, what is wrong with me? Why can’t I move on with life? I don’t think it’s normal to continue this depression, anxieties after so long! I should have moved on by now, but I’ve allowed him to brain wash me into believing he cared?

How do I move ON? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: emptyheartaches ]</small>

Onebreath,

OK, let's see. Questions:

Are you in Plan B?

If so, how long?

I'd like to know what the 15 months refers to - was that when you discovered the A or was that when it actually started?

Withdrawal? Absolutely! I'll bet every BS has experienced it, particularly when you first go into Plan B. You want so desperately to try to reach out to the spouse you thought you knew, to ask the obvious questions. But you could ask until the cows come home and the answers you get will make no sense - or worse, will hurt terribly.

Please remember when your H is fog-bound he will say things that he may not even recall saying, after the fog lifts. I have heard that from FWS here a number of times.

Now here is my concern:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He gave me his sad story of his love for me, of letting me work out my feeling, of staying away from OW and proving to me he could, of getting himself back on track before contacting me! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This could be just a coverup to allow him the continued freedom to see the OW. The way to "prove" he can stay away from the OW is to do it in your presence, in your home, in your marriage. An addict cannot be trusted to be alone and cope with the withdrawal from the addiction. This is no different. There need to be precautions and safeguards in place to prevent the contact with the OW, not your H trying to macho it out, living somewhere else, and proving he is bigger and stronger than the addiction. Every addict needs help. He is no different.

Anyway, the Plan B thing is the biggest question I have for you. It kind of sounds like only a week ago you decided to have no contact with your H until the OW was out of the picture. If so, did you send him a letter?

Let us know.

*S*

*Sparkle*

I've been here on and off since last September, and I think I've done it all. When D-Day happen I said, "OK we can get through this" ! I didn't even have a fit, cried my eyes out, lost 40 lbs, but I tried and in the process did my share of some Lbing. But I tried for about eight months with two WS relapses and then he lost his 19-year career (as a police officer) and got arrested and OW (who is also a police officer) bailed him out, since then he moved into her place (April 20, 2003 claiming he owed her?) and has been back and forth between us weekly!!!!! He's says when he is with OW for two or three days he can't bare being away and returns a week later he is back with her, I can always tell when he is leaving, he gets a weird look and withdraws.

This Sunday, after finding out he had a second cellular number (which it's for her) I told him I couldn’t do it. I have given him 2 previous Plan B letters (the last one a week ago) and have always end up contacting him? It's like I am in my own FOG? Finally I just can't do it, I just can't!?!?!

Is he talking to her? PROBABLY, I am 90% Sure of it <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . Can I do anything about it? No, because he is not ready. You can't make the drug addict give up the drug. It's like that saying "You can lead the horse to water but you can't make him drink it" (I think that's the saying), I can't make him choose to be with me......I can't do more than I've done. And I'm scared I am loosing my love for him, and that all this will end up being about is that I was afraid to be alone! But I have tried, God only knows that I've tried, but after 15 months (Since D-Day) I think a plan B is the only thing that will break us or save us? Does this make sense?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ November 28, 2003, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: onebreathatatime ]</small>

OK, first, look at your name here.

Now...take ONE BIG, LONG breath. And another. We need to calm you down.

You are going to need, with the help of everyone here on this board, to stick to Plan B.

Stick to Plan B.

Think of yourself as an addict as well...addicted to your H. Well, each time you get a "fix" by contacting him, you are back in the quagmire of misery. I have been there, thousands of others here can understand and appreciate where you are.

Now, my personal experience (I am in Plan B) is that it does get better, but like anything else, it takes time. The first few days, weeks, are very difficult. If you spend a lot of time here, post your yearnings, your desire to contact him, we will "hold you down" until the feeling passes. We will give you the strength you need.

Right now, your H knows that you keep taking him back. He doesn't really, really realize the misery he is causing you.

Is he talking to her? Probably. Seeing her? Maybe.

So, Onebreath. Leave it alone. Get yourself totally out of the muck. Go wash yourself off, vow to yourself that you will follow the principles of Plan B - to the letter!

This is the only way you will achieve any peace in your life. Trust me, I know. But you have to accept it is not going to happen overnight.

Now, regardless of what happens, protecting yourself by a very STRICT Plan B will make you start living your life again. You should use this time to correct little things you know you would like to change about yourself. Need to get more exercise? Do it now! Need to eat better? Start now! Always wanted to try your hand at gardening? Do it now. Do all those things you should do and those you wanted to do but never had time. Bottom line: improve yourself NOW. Because, if your marriage is to be saved, you will be a stronger, better person, more able to handle it. If your marriage doesn't make it, similarly, you have reached deep down inside and found the strength to go on with your life.

I recommend you do nothing now. Nothing, that is, except firmly planting yourself in Plan B. If one week ago, you didn't give your H a PBL then do it now. But this time, post the letter here and let everyone help you make it the best, strongest it can be.

Do not agree to accept any calls from him. See how it hurt you yesterday? Isolte and insulate.

You will get past this. But please, FIRST, implement a strong, unbreakable Plan B and DO NOT communicate with your H for any reason until he has given OW the boot!

We are here for you. Let us help.

*S*

How do I post a question for others to ask?

Just created a username and logged on, but cannot post quesitons!

Help, need answers

Hi Beewee,

Welcome.

To post a new question/topic, just click on the "New Topic" button (at the top of this screen and on the General Questions II Main Screen as well).

You will then be able to create a name (subject) for your question (make it very specific; it will help us to reply to you) and you can write all about your question or problem.

Good luck and look forward to hearing from you.

*S*

*Sparkle*

You are so very right, every time I have contact with him I get a fix and it feels great, then when he leaves (which he always DOES! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> )I feel that agony......that I know only so well! It tears me apart all over again. Even though I asked for this time apart, I was hoping he would work on himself, on us on getting HIS LIFE in order. It's like I relive the entire episode of the A all over again and I ask myself "WHY"? It has to be that I love "MYSELF" so little to be by the side of a man who doesn't care? To continue giving into and hoping to someone that purposely destroyed us, and my trust in anyone. He was my best friend, and if your best friend can do this to you, then what's hope can I have left?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is he talking to her? Probably. Seeing her? Maybe.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I can bet money I don't have on that <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , this I am 99.9% sure of. He hasn't spent a holiday alone in over 20 years and I believe he is not strong enough to do it now! The plan was for him to spend it with his kids and his family, but I can guarantee that he was with her. I never new him to be weak.....I guess after almost 10 years I really didn't know him at all. Here I thought I was safe being with someone 9 years my senior, nope he just found someone his age? I guess nothing is forever? Huh?

I've been reading two great books recently, nothing to do with A (Thank the lord, I've done enough research on this subject!) One is IN THE MEANTIME , by Iyanla Vanzant and the second IF YOU COULD HEAR WHAT I SEE by Kathy Buckley. One passage in Kathy's book was speaking to me, Well actually a lot of the book I felt was a total inspiration, but to quote her NO MATTER HOW BAD SOMETHING IS, IT HAS A LIMIT. IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW LONG YOUR GOING TO DRAG IT OUT. NO MATTER HOW GOOD SOMETHING IS, THAT HAS A LIMIT TOO, SO YOU BETTER GET IN THE MOMENT AND ENJOY IT.

I decided to come into work today to avoid the temptation of the solitude I feel. At least I can just work on different projects?

*Sparkle*, Thank you, I was a mess last night and even though I do feel better since I worked out this morning, it was nice to get your reply. Again "THANK YOU"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Onebreath,

You're welcome.

Now...what are you going to do for YOU?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was hoping he would work on himself, on us on getting HIS LIFE in order. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, and you need to leave him alone - totally alone - to do this. If the A is to run its course, it has to be totally without contact from you. You see, each time he sees you, he is also getting a "fix" - even just looking at you. It keeps him still connected to you and getting a portion of his needs met by you. No contact from you puts the OW in a position of having to meet each and every one of his needs, and 9 times out of 10, she is simply not capable of doing so. He will gradually realize what he's missing by being in the affair and not in the marriage and he will, hopefully, decide that the marriage and you are what he needs in his life. But to get there, if he is to get there, you have to leave him totally alone...no phone calls, nothing!

Now is the time for you to work on YOURSELF too. On getting YOUR LIFE in order as well, so you are strong and prepared to go forward - in whatever direction this leads.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's like I relive the entire episode of the A all over again and I ask myself "WHY"? It has to be that I love "MYSELF" so little to be by the side of a man who doesn't care? To continue giving into and hoping to someone that purposely destroyed us, and my trust in anyone. He was my best friend, and if your best friend can do this to you, then what's hope can I have left?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is your pain speaking. As I have read many, many times, each of us is capable of having an affair. Oh, you may not believe it, but we are...given the right circumstances. Yes, your H was your best friend, and if you follow the principles of MB, and of Plan B, you have a very good chance of getting your best friend back. But you have to be strong and you have to follow the plan.

It is so hard when your emotions are telling you to do something - to contact him, to shake him, to talk some sense into him, to ask him what he really wants.

Bottom line: you would never be able to get through to him right now. He doesn't know what he wants.

I didn't believe in Plan B, either, but trust me, it really helps. You have to fight every instinct you have to contact him, to fight with him, to plead with him, to cry, but I made it by reading on this board and learning from the amazing strength of the many posters here.

So? Are you going to do this?

*S*

*Sparkle*

This letter was emailed to me on our last attempt to get our relationship in order.

I remember your last letter which you let me read in your car constantly and yes, it's hard to believe that we finally ended. Marilyn i was scared i couldn't provide you with the same life. I'm sorry. I prayed so much to be ready and yours before the holidays but continued to fail without honesty and faith. I have cause extreme amounts of pain, and do not believe i would hurt the one i promised to love and cherish. I wish i could the hit the "undo" button but all i can do is admit that i made a mistake and continued to do it. I wish i could change what happened but all i can do is focus on making sure things are done right before talking to you again. The
Marriage Builders web site has been very helpful, >especially the "discussion forum". I am on constantly on line reading everyone's advice
with similar problems and looking for you. I failed you on August 2002 and have never been able to find that man you fell in love with. I had only three loves in my life and have already lost two of them.
>1) All my children including Jaime. "It wasn't his fault what his mother did" I love him dearly.
>2) My nineteen year career,
>3) and yes you.
>Only now do I feel some of this pain you spoke about. Intense pain, numb most of time and walking around in a daze. I don't blame you, I blame myself for not taking a chance and believing in us. You always said I would feel the real pain when you closed your door for good. You got your wish! I can't sleep, I walk around sad and yes I can't breathe. I know I lost you,
>Marilyn believe me I know it been difficult and the sad part, it's been by my hand. I lied, I brought pain into the relationship and refused to take a chance. I have lost my last third of my life and I will miss her. I pray everyday you remember some of the good and not only all the bad. I know that you felt that all your efforts in changing our relationship and hard work went unrecognized. I want you to know that they didn't. (I have said this before) I love you so very much and a lot of my love is accredited by
>the way that you become a great step-mom with Alex and helping him become a young man. You been a trusting friend, an erotic lover and overall great partner. As for the kids, i haven't told them anything yet and plan to be patient with them. Our break up will hit Alex the hardest, because he truly unconditionally loves you.
>Take this letter as a token of how grateful i was to have you to have you in my life. I hope by the time i completed my withdrawals and i have
>rebuilt my life, you might still be there only god knows. I think of you often and always with love. Thinking of you and hoping the sun will come out soon for us.
New job, new life,
New begining December 15 2004, hope you will be there!
Flex

And I ask, How can someone write this to me and then do it all over again? I honestly believed him....I am a fool? How can he continue to hurt me? I know because I let him, right?

I am trying to workout, loose the last 20 lbs of FAT and gain the muscle. Trying to eat better, sleep is still a work in process. Unfortunately my friends are all married and with children, so this new single life is a bit awkward. And to make matters worse, I have a gentleman at work that has shown interest, but I can't even fathom going there. I guess I just can't see myself with anyone else right now?

your thoughts? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: emptyheartaches ]</small>

*Sparkle*

I changed my name, WS comes in here from time to time, Don't know why is doing much for him!!!

I just found our he changed his telephone numbers and email, so I won't be able to get a hold of him? And I'm sure moved back with OW!

Time to move on, God this hurts. But I guess after almost 10 years that should be expected right? Will I ever be happy again, where r u and pepperband when I need you guys so much right now? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

How do I get up tomorrow and continue knowing he will no longer be a part of my life?

Marilyn
onebreathatatime <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: emptyheartaches ]</small>

Ok?

It's Monday and I’m still on my attempt at a Plan B, since Wednesday! I've tried to keep myself busy by working out, reading, A LOT of reading. It's been difficult. WS has sent me five emails in two days and I haven't responded as of yet! In one he did mention that he might need to fly to NY to see his mother, he stated she is not well again, and I want so much to speak to him about her, but then I would be breaking my plan B <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ? What should I do? I’m worried, he's mom has been battling cancer for a couple of years and refuses to fight medically, we were never very close, but we did visit her once a year? He's family is very distant and since my family is so VERY close it's just odd that his family is not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I’m sure he has been seeing OW, he wrote me that he had Thanksgiving with his cousins (don't believe that) since he changed his cell number (I wonder who asked him?) (OW always wants him to change his number when he’s with her, this is he third number in three weeks), Since he has had his dose of her now he wants to talk, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Any thoughts?

Marilyn
---------------------------------

ME-BS(34) WS(42) Been together almost 10 years
No Children together, WS has 4 children w/ EXFWW
OW (41) Ex-Coworker, Divorced, No Children
D-Day - 8/27/02 when we returned from a trip to Cancun!
D-Day #2 - April 03 same OW
I Moved away 5/03 he followed and left several times to be with her
Moved back 8/03 we try and he continues to leave.
11/03 end of my rope! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
11/25/03 Plan B

My comments are in bold text.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's Monday and I&#8217;m still on my attempt at a Plan B,

This is about you. Why "attempt" plan B?.... Why not just make up your mind and follow your resolve? DO PLAN B. If you asked your H for NC .... would you ask him to "attempt NC"?

since Wednesday! I've tried to keep myself busy by working out, reading, A LOT of reading. It's been difficult.

This is about you.


WS has sent me five emails in two days and I haven't responded as of yet!

This is about your Plan-B efforts.

In one he did mention that he might need to fly to NY to see his mother, he stated she is not well again, and I want so much to speak to him about her, but then I would be breaking my plan B <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ? What should I do?

Send your MIL a card.

I&#8217;m worried, he's mom has been battling cancer for a couple of years and refuses to fight medically, we were never very close, but we did visit her once a year?

Send her a card and possibly a food basket.

He's family is very distant and since my family is so VERY close it's just odd that his family is not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Be warm to his family, and don't expect anything in return.

I&#8217;m sure he has been seeing OW, he wrote me that he had Thanksgiving with his cousins (don't believe that)

This is NOT part of your recovery.

since he changed his cell number (I wonder who asked him?) (OW always wants him to change his number when he&#8217;s with her, this is he third number in three weeks)

This is NOT part of your recovery.

Since he has had his dose of her now he wants to talk, right?

This is NOT part of your recovery.

Any thoughts?

Plan-B is to avoid him, avoid thinking about him and his A .... you are getting better, but you still need to avoid the DJ's and crystal-ball gazing ...

Work on YOUR self-esteem, YOUR spirituality, and YOUR physical and mental health.

Pep

Gotit Pep,
Isn't the point on the plan b for me to work on me and for him to get over the A? That's what I am working on "ME", for the first time in 10 years, maybe even longer I'm getting to know me. But I think it's hard since I believe I am going through a withdrawl. Not to mention turning my back on who once was my best friend, who I thought was my partner for life? PAINFULL

What is the difference between going on with my life without him and a plan B? Doesn't it mean "we" are done and over with? And I should be moving on? I think I need to re-read the plan B again, I've read so much lately including Tough Love that I don't know what I'm doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Marilyn
---------------------------------

ME-BS(34) WS(42) Been together almost 10 years
No Children together, WS has 4 children w/ EXFWW
OW (41) Ex-Coworker, Divorced, No Children
D-Day - 8/27/02 when we returned from a trip to Cancun!
D-Day #2 - April 03 same OW
I Moved away 5/03 he followed and left several times to be with her
Moved back 8/03 we try and he continues to leave.
11/03 end of my rope!
11/25/03 Plan B <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />