For starters, here's my second topic, which also has a link to my original topic.

Out in the open

Basically, I've been in Plan A for 7 weeks now. I haven't been perfect about it though. I have had a couple of angry outbursts, after snooping and finding out that she was still lying to me about her affair. Plus, instead of talking about it and then trying to move on, I would initiate an hour or longer conversation about our relationship every few days, thinking that I was just letting her know "how I feel", yet still mentioning "the past" in the process.

Anyway, we've now been separated for 2 weeks, and have had minimal contact, primarily about the kids (I'm a stepfather) and holiday plans. We have seen each other, as a result of those holiday activities, two times in the past 3 days, with last night being the most recent.

What I'm asking here is, how do you put up with the emotional distance and coldness?

When I start to feel somewhat optimistic, for whatever reason, something will happen to tear it apart. From our meeting Sunday, I felt good about a few things, in how we interacted, and how she seemed to be "treating me". Yet last night, she acted exactly the opposite of how she did Sunday.

I mean, I've had more caring and affectionate interactions with guys here at work than I did with WW last night. And once I got home to "our" empty house, it was killing me! Conversation was short comments about impersonal topics, and when parting ways, though she did "welcome" a hug, she did so in a way that reminded me of a guy at work giving me one of those "good job" hug/pat-on-the-back things. You know, one arm over the shoulder, pat the back some, have a nice day.

The only upside is that it reminded me of a good reason to have her move out. I was dealing with that kind of emotional coldness every single day for almost 2 weeks before she moved out. At least now I don't have to deal with it at all if I choose not to see her.

But still, I think about her every day...heck...every hour! Yet every single contact we've had since she moved out has been initiated by me, and seemingly unwelcome by her. I can't help but wonder if she even thinks about me, let alone actually cares what Im doing or how I'm feeling.

OK, that was long enough...for now. I just needed to get that out there, because it's so hard to feel hopeful about our marriage when it appears that she couldn't care less about me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Edit: Oh yeah, and last night was the last time we had to be together. My intention now is to try and pretend like she doesn't even exist anymore. No emails, no phone calls, no questions, no interest. If she wants to get anything from me, or have anything to do with me for any reason whatsoever, she's going to have to initiate contact. This isn't really a Plan B, it's more of a distant and controlled Plan A. But I'm getting sick of caring and wondering and being interested in her life under these circumstances.

<small>[ December 23, 2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

You might need to do PLAN B but wait for comments from the veterans here.

I will say that it's important for you to try to understand that while she is in the midst of the A she will be cold and distant. The A will have to play itself out. There is nothing you can do about that.

The important thing to do is your PLAN A. Focus in on yourself and what you need to do. Whatever you do, try not to LB. Focus on meeting her ENs. Work on YOUR PLAN. That's what I did although I know it's hard. She wants you to LB in order to justify her behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong> Focus on meeting her ENs. Work on YOUR PLAN. That's what I did although I know it's hard. She wants you to LB in order to justify her behavior. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I find it hard, if not impossible, to meet any of her EN's when she's moved out and doesn't really want to have anything to do with me. The upside, of course, is that it makes it easier to avoid LB's too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But it seems, through her words and actions, that just contacting her at all is a LB to her.

I guess that's why I'm thinking of just "letting her go" for now. If I contact her, she'll be upset that I'm not giving her space. If I don't, she might think that I've stopped caring. If I do, she'll be so cold that I'll be hurt and risk committing LB's. If I don't, she won't have any pressure to change what she's doing, and I won't have any chance to meet a single EN of hers.

I guess I'm just trying to get through these times when I feel completely abandoned and unloved by my spouse. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I bet she does try to contact you during the holidays.

What does she like? Does she like cards? Does she like flowers? What created the climate for the A? What do you need to change about yourself? Let her know in some way that you are making those changes. You can't control her. You can only work on yourself.

Plan A involves meeting her Emotional Needs. Even if it looks like she is being distant and cold, it will get through to her if you focus on what she is needing. Ignore her actions. She's in a fog, abducted by an alien. Develop your own PLAN about what is necessary at this point.

Well, I'm going to IC, I've started a bit of an exercise routine, I'm getting lots of little things fixed up around our house...that's about it for my plan right now.

And yes, they are making me feel somewhat better about myself, which is one of the key goals I guess. But how is she to know about these good things if I don't see her or speak to her for the next 2 weeks?

Ah well, I guess that may not matter. I can't control what she does or thinks, no matter how much time I put into "stressing" about it.

It's just so hard not knowing... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I like the ideas of working out and fixing up around the house. My FWH said that it made an impression on him that I planted flowers outside while he was gone.

How about a love letter, card or E-mail saying just the things that need to be said.

Now sounds like the perfect time to switch to Plan B. Plan B is supposed to come as a shock. A Plan B letter is very important, where you lay the ground rules for contact (or lack of contact) and you give her a path to come back (N/C with OP). It would be very difficult to Plan A her right now and it sounds like a natural course to begin Plan B.

Do you have any last Plan A gusto you'd like to get out. When you switch to Plan B she should have a very loving and good impression of you.

Creat a timeline for yourself. This limbo is just extending the course of the A and prolonging the time before recovery.

I am by no means a veteran, but Plan B worked out VERY well for me.

Well, it was WW's decision for her to move out. I did not agree with it, and said so several times before she left.

Also, it was WW's decision to have N/C with each other "for a while" after she left, unless absolutely necessary for the sake of finances or children. I also did not agree with this decision, and said so several times before she left, and once when I contacted her by email a few days after she left.

So I seem to have found myself in a "Plan B like situation". Only it wasn't my decision. So I know that means it's not really a Plan B, but it's very similar living conditions.

Oh, the other thing that concerns me about EN's. One of her biggest thing was my lack of participation in family events and making decisions about the kids. Well, with all of them gone, how am I supposed to show improvement in that area? By calling and trying to be in their lives? Well, that'll be exactly the opposite of N/C.

So I find myself confused. On the one hand, she wants me to take a more active role in the family. On the other hand, she doesn't want me to be around "for a while". Well, I sure can't do both! So I've no idea what to do.

With the continued coldness during these past 2 visits, which were specifically about the kids, I can't help but think that doesn't matter right now, and the best thing is to just leave her alone.

I guess I'll read up some on Plan B. It's probably much the same as how I feel right now anyway. Even if/when she does want to come back, there are certainly going to be some terms we'll have to agree to (no contact, marriage counseling, and plans for what we're going to work on in our lives together).

Nah, I'm not long-winded. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi UN,

I'm kinda in the same boat although to my knowledge,the A is over for my WH(OW lives in another country).

You are still relatively new in the A aftershocks so my suggestion is to continue to do Plan A a little longer. I think it was mentioned here before that 3-6 months is a guidline but not written in stone.

If you are like me,you are in a "hurry up and wait" mode and I wanted some answers quickly but I had to "let go" myself,which I did and just become like a friend and try to meet EN's when I could. I am separated too and my WH is in another state working for 3 months but I will continue to be friendly in the phone,when I see him I will try to keep things,light and not talk about affair and show a strong apearance,you should too.

If after a good "college try" the affair is still going on,then you can say to yourself,I have given my best at Plan A for a good period of time and now onto Plan B.

Try not to think too much what she is thinking,you can really unravel yourself trying to analyze what they say and do.Don't.Try to be as loving and supportive as you can while in Plan A and focus on you too.Don't push too hard either for answers,or commitments or anything.You can request but then let that hang in the air and be done with it.

It isn't pleasant at all to deal with a cold fish in your house for sure but try to get some fullfillment by your kids love,spending time with family and friends to weather the storm.I know it isn't easy.Plan A is doing all these things without expectations of a return.If you start giving to her *unconditionally,it may feel better to you AND her.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
O

I bet you can figure out a way to show that you are taking a more active role in the family. Remember she wants you to fail in order to justify staying in the A. Don't satisfy her by failiing. Do what she needs for you to do and do the right thing for you to do. How about taking the children somewhere special during your time with them. What do you need to do?? THINK!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> Try not to think too much what she is thinking,you can really unravel yourself trying to analyze what they say and do.Don't.Try to be as loving and supportive as you can while in Plan A and focus on you too.Don't push too hard either for answers,or commitments or anything.You can request but then let that hang in the air and be done with it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh man, if only I could pull that one off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I've been told that by, oh, I don't know, every single person I've talked to about this situation. Yet I still can't help it. I've done it for so long, it's like it's just who I am. Hopefully though, my therapist and physician are going to be able to help me with some of that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong> I bet you can figure out a way to show that you are taking a more active role in the family. Remember she wants you to fail in order to justify staying in the A. Don't satisfy her by failiing. Do what she needs for you to do and do the right thing for you to do. How about taking the children somewhere special during your time with them. What do you need to do?? THINK!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What time with them? I'm "only stepdad", so I have no time with them, unless WW is there. I have no rights regarding them. So the best I can do is call every other day and talk briefly with the kids to see how they're doing. Beyond that? Right now? It feels like there's nothing I can do other than sit around and wait. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Then again, I suppose that I could ask for time with them. Maybe I could take them out to see a movie or something. Then again, money is really tight now that she's draining so much off to live elsewhere, so that might not be possible.

Bleh, it's so strange. I love the kids. I care deeply about their health and happiness. I miss having them around the house. Yet....yet I don't "miss them" the way that I miss my WW. I'm not suffering from nearly the same kind of painful "seperation anxiety" as I am with my WW.

Maybe I'm just used to not having them around, since they always seem to be "bouncing" between families and friends. So them being gone now isn't such a strange and traumatic experience. Or maybe I just don't really "love them". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hmmm.....I think I'd better call to see what their plans are. I know the oldest is babysitting her sister and cousins Saturday night. I know that someone still needs to take the oldest down to finish one of the projects from last weekend.

Hmmm.....I mentioned that Tuesday night, and WW gave me the usual "It's ok. I'll just take care of it" response that I almost always get regarding the kids. She says that she has to do some running around and shopping on Sunday anyway (she's working OT on Saturday).

Hmmm.....Maybe I should offer to take the kids to a movie on Saturday while WW is working, and then take the oldest out to finish that project on Sunday, so that WW can get her "running around" done more easily.

Hmmm.....

But I have to check my motivation...

Would I be doing those things beause I want to do them with the kids, or because I'm hoping it'll make a good impression on my wife.

For example, before she left, I took up some slack in taking kids to Dr. appointments, picking them up and dropping them off for school, and so on. I didn't do those thngs because I enjoyed them, I did them because I hoped to make a good impression on my wife. However, those things are never fun, and I did them because they needed to be done, and I felt that my wife had been too burdened with those tasks in the past.

For example, one appointment was for the oldest daughters braces. She's had those things for almost two years, and goes every month to get them adjusted. Well, in 20+ visits, that was only the THIRD TIME I had been there! Eww, have I been selfish. See, she has some good points in her concerns.

So anyway, if I took the kids to see a movie, I'd be doing it for them and me, not WW. I'd have fun, but even more importantly, I'd really have fun sharing the whole experience with the kids. So that's positive motivation.

Other things I could do, like trying to take some of the extra burden of getting the kids too/from school that has been added by her moving, are things I wouldn't be doing for the kids, I'd only be doing them to try and "impress" my WW.

Check my motivation...yet another thing to keep reminding myself...heh

UNCOMFORTABLY:

You're getting it! Your motivation about taking out the kids doesn't matter. Sometimes I do things for my kids because I want to. Sometimes I do it because I have to. Sometimes I even don't like them especially my teenager.

The point is you will be working as a teammate with your wife, easing her load, helping her out. She needs that from you. That's what she needs from a husband.

SHE WILL NOTICE!!! Remember that she will protest because she wants you to fail or maybe she doesn't have faith that you will be able to meet her needs.

Regardless of what she thinks doing things with the kids is a good and right thing for you to do. That's what matters the most. Remember this is your plan on how you are going to be a better person and a better husband regardless of whether you get back with your WW or not.

<small>[ December 11, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Thanks.

And a quick comment on the kids getting to/from school. That's going to happen anyway, whether I help her or not. And it was a lot less of a problem when we all lived in our home. It's only become a much greater burden since she's moved them all out.

So why should I help her with a problem that is a direct result of her decision to move out?

Uncomfortably:

Are you doing PLAN A or not? It's not about making her suffer consequences of her actions! Read up on it. I would recommend following the MB principles as closely as possible. That has worked for me.

You really seem to be getting it. Try not to let your understandable anger veer you off track. Your wife needs you!!!! Believe in your marriage!!!

I'm doing a PLAN A FOR LIFE!!!!

And I just got this message from her, with no idea how to respond...

"Do you have a problem if I take out the $weekly amount as well as what is over my normal pay from my overtime? Or do you need that for bills?"

Umm, well, I don't budget for overtime, so I don't need it for bills. However, why does she need it? Should I just consider myself lucky that she's sharing any of her income with me to pay the bills from our household?

I'd like to respond that I don't need it, but that it'd be nice to have it in there to cover the bills that we've accumulated, like loans and credit cards (including the $70 charge she made a couple of days ago for entertainment purposes, when she's not even paying the credit card bills).

I want to LB...I can't see myself responding with any kindness. I just see myself getting angry...grr...

<small>[ December 11, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

UN:

So, don't get angry. Suggest that you and she could pay down some debt with it 2 help simplify things.

Don't LB. I'll have 2 come after you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Try to see it positively that she has not disconnected from you financially.

That was one way that my FWH kept his tie with me. He never got his own bank account even when we were separated. That was an important clue to his uncertainty about ending things with me.

Take some deep breaths. Respond how you need to respond in PLAN A.

Sounds like an important EN that you continue to me for her is financial security. Now your job is to begin adding more ENs onto this one.

Try to get this UNCOMFORTABLY.

NO LBing!!! You cannot afford that right now when you are beginning to get it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks. I was calm about it, and just said

"We need it in our account, because we have some extra expenses this month."

But I sure was pissed about the question. She's not paying for anything but gas for her car and food! Those are her only ongoing expenses, and she's already getting hundreds of dollars a week for her and the kids (from both of our paychecks and her child support checks). So what the **** does she need that extra money for? To try and save up some kind of "escape account"?

Grrr...sometimes...grrr

Edit: Oh, and she already did open up a seperate checking account. I expect it won't be long before the child support checks start getting delivered to wherethey're at now, and eventually, her paychecks will just stop being direct-deposited into our joint account. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ December 11, 2003, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

Yes. You need to be careful about the money. That's part of the A script. You need to protect yourself. Don't provide extra money for her to spend for the A. Just don't LB when you are handling the situation. While she is in the A part of her money will be used on him. You're right to make sure that it's not yours. You know the details of your financial situation. Just make sure to protect yourself.