W. just called. I looked at the caller ID and knew it was her, I almost didn't answer, but I did. (I know I'm pathetic)<P>She sounded estatic to hear my voice, she then said "What are you doing" I'm working "Can I ask you something" Sure "Can I come home? I miss you and the boys, my entire family" What do you mean? "I want to come home and I don't know if you'll let me." I told you you could come home and I've only asked for two things, do you remember what those are? "Yes. Honesty and that I never see OM again." Can you do this? "Yes" <P>I told her to call me back.<P>What should I do? Is this too soon? I'm actually feeling good today. Missing her, but feeling good. Now I'm jittery, anxious, what to do, what to do?<P>It's just been three days<P>Quick responses needed.<p>[This message has been edited by Paul Moyers (edited November 12, 1999).]

Paul,<P>Well, if I were in your shoes (and I really don't know your entire story) I would let her come back home. But then again, I'm a sucker for a happy ending. You love her, right? You want to make your marriage work, right? You can/have forgiven her, right?<P>I think that you know the answer to this question already...follow your heart. <P>My prayers are with you, as I know that the road ahead of you in going to be long and filled with pot-holes. But...once you reach the new pavement..it's smooth sailing!

Okay Paul, I'm not gonna cry this time (when is it my turn?!?)<P>Sure let her come home, BUT...<P>You both need to make time (very soon) to sit down and talk about what you both expect to happen & what you are going to do.<P>I would suggest;<P>1 - Counseling. Steve Harley (1-888-639-1639) is highly recommended.<BR>2 - A commitment to working it out. Don't expect everything to be hunky dory after a week.<BR>3 - As you stated, honesty.<BR>4 - Also, NO contact with the om.<BR>5 - STD testing.<P>Do not have ANY Love Busters on your part. This is very important as she is feeling vulnerable and wants to come home but she is afraid. Make sure you are a "safe place" for her to be.<P>God be with you Paul.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

Paul:<P>I'd urge you to discuss with her the "terms" for reconciling. The most important things (from a MB standpoint) you should discuss with her right now is the Rule of Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement. Give her the information on these, and see if she agrees in the value, and would be willing to try to practice this.<P>And then, you (both) need to make decisions.<P>Do you let her move back in? What are the conditions (counseling, no OM, writing the "joint letter", verifying that contact has been broken, etc.). Use the POJA---you want HER to be agreeing enthusiastically about all these points. If she can't, you must negotiate until you both agree. <P>It is very soon---she's had a "swing" of emotions. You should be on your guard---it's very likely that she could fail with this breakoff attempt. You need to plan for that (as well as success). If you can deal with her moving back, trying, and failing (and then have a backup plan that indicates "back to Plan A for a period" or "back to Plan B", you'll be fine. Remember, no lovebusters. And if she does fail, it's going to be harder on you.<P>If you think that this is her "last shot", then I would urge you to negotiate a scenario in which she breaks it off with the OM, gets a place on her own (friends? family?), starts counseling, etc., with the provision that you plan on letting her move back within a month or so. <P>It's tough.

K has been there. Chris would love to be there. They both offer great advice. I'd take this sloooooow. I wouldn't move back in together until some basic agreements/decisions had been reached. Sounds great though. There still will be very tough times.

Paul, Set guidelines let her decide if she can live within those guidelines. And make sure she understands what will happen if she breaks even one. Plan B again. All the others had great ideas for those guidelines so I am not going to ay them again. Lost of prayers and Hugs for you {{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

K: I am not familiar with the "joint letter" a little help please.

Paul:<P>Didn’t this happen once before?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Paul,<BR>Policy of Joint Agreement can be found at the home page of here under that basic concept heading, I think. Read POJA and the Rule of Honesty. I think K hit everything right on the head. Proceed with caution, but proceed Just remember, stay out of God's way! Looks like He is working miracles here. Good Luck!

I agree with everyone's advice here, Paul, but I know you must be nervous. <P>I am praying this is the real thing this time and crossing my fingers for you!<P>Lori

Whodat: This is actually the 4th time, only the second one posted. She has never been able to let OM go. It's the only thing I'm still afraid of, I know we can work through any thing else.

Paul- I agree with WHODAT- this did happen before.<BR>Otherwise, I agree with the POJA. Let us know what you do. I just hope you are not setting yourself up to be hurt again- she can only go to the well until it dries up.<P>IMHO, I'd let her stay out a little longer. But, thats just me.

Paul, maybe this link will help answer your questions.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html</A>

Paul,<P>I'd let her come back with the caveat that she never see the OM via the POJA. If you can't work out a long drawn out thing right now, I'd be tempted to write something up that she signs, and I'm not kidding. Something along the lines of:<P>I, W, agree to come home to work on my marriage under only one condition; that I never talk to or see the OM again.<P>Let us know, of course, what you do!! This is very hopeful though - she's super-duper cracking!! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Paul - I cut and pasted the section about the letter. Here it is:<P>***<BR>How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone. <P>My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent. <P>***<BR>Read the entire article and all the links. It is fantastic.<P>God Bless You<BR>TNT

This is good news.<P>But like most who have said before me, it sounds like this is a knee jerk reaction to some emotional pain. When she gets comfortable again or under duress, she is going to hand you your head on a platter--again. <P>You have to protect your emotional health against this, or she'll snuff out any love you have for her. I'd let her come home, but with some very clear cut conditions. Let me re-iterate that. VERY clear cut conditions. Believe me, she's probably gonna balk at the mere thought of discussing them. Since, its going to throw a bright light on the damage thats been done to your marriage. Your going to need a good counselor to help get through this one. Try and remember that when the going get rough, she got going--to the OM. Holly and others will testify that during the reconcillation, when it got hard they slipped and went back (called him, etc..) to the OM. You've got to watch for this as well.<P>Good luck, were with you on this.

Hi Paul -<P>I have a train of thought that hasn't really been addressed yet...<P>Apparently, you told her there were two conditions to her coming home...<P>She says that she can meet those conditions....<P>Now you have two problems here:<P>!) She says yes to those conditions, but you actually have more than two - the MB tools must be learned and applied along with proof that she isn't in contact with OM. How will she see these added things? Will she think that you are lying and/or being controlling?<P>2) Because of her doing this 4 times, you MUST make it clear that she has to understand what she must do in order to begin the trust rebuilding....Again, will she falter on the controlling? Will she accept that time must b accounted for, social activities should be together not separate (at least for now until trust is established and her head stays on straight for a while)<P>So, how do you make this additional "conditions" not seem like you're just heaping on more to "punish" her?<P>You must choose your wording carefully and incorporate them within the Honesty and NO OM conditions you already said.<BR>This way they won't seem as additional ones......Perhaps explaining that she might not realize all that "Honesty" and No OM" entails. Being that she made up her mind awful fast. <P>Let her know that her word on it does not make it a reality.....the actions and consistancy of them will be what determines her trueness. That is only something that can be seen with time. Then you insert the part about the being together while she stays with (friends or family) and you can both see how things are progressing in a month or so.<P>Remind her that the cycle of leaving and coming back is going to be broken this time......no more back and forth!! You both have to do it right this time and luckily you have learned how to do that through....(insert the MB stuff here) <P>Do you see what I mean? Can you approach it this way or something similar?<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR>

I am new to this forum( 2 days). I don't have any advice to give but I thought I would let you know that I know the way you feel. I too think we can get over everything else, but OM is the toughy.<BR> I hoping for you man, cause if you make then I know I can.<P>Good Luck<BR>

There are so many great responses that I can not respond to each one individually, forgive me , I understand what everyone is saying about the conditions and taking it slow, about being prepared for the worst as far has her going back. Also I here that I need to be there for her, caring and supportive. But I'll be honest (Sheba) I haven't really thought about how to introduce the "other" stuff or how she'll take it. That'll be tough. I found the info (TNT,K) and will insist upon the letter. I don't think that this should be too demanding...<P>I hope getting worked up like this isn't for nothing...<P>She hasn't called back.<P>I'm pathetic.

Paul:<P>One of the things you’re going to need to tell her is to come to YOU instead of the OM when (not if) the withdrawal kicks in. She didn’t before, hence this being the fourth time you’ve gone through this.<P>I’ll tell you one thing though... looking into her tearful eyes as she tells you how much she misses <B>him</B> is going to <B>kill</B> you. Be prepared for that, and to be supportive until the withdrawal ends.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die