It has been quite some time since my last post.... And for those who do/don't know my story, for this post I dont know whether or not it is worth repeating... But you are welcome to look up my previouse posts and "catch-up"....

This last month has been the biggest part of the roller coaster over the last two years..... It is the lowest low- and I think both me (BS) and my husband (WS) have hit "rock-bottom".... He is ending it with the OW- (2 year PA/EA,very much in love)- and only a few days have gone by in trying to deal with this... I guess from reading SAA and this board- that this "withdraw" period is something necessary to the recovery process.

My question is how do we as BS sit and watch this painful process?.... I feel SO helpless... I want so bad to reach out to him- and just hold him ALL day long to make the pain go away... (I know that isnt the right approach...) What steps can you do until the WS is ready to start seeking MC, etc... We do have a person we have confided in- and told our situation to- that has helped us both tremendously... But what do you do just in your daily routine to make it through a day.... I will tell you that I am the most patient person in the world- but this is killing me....

Any advice from people going through/ or on the other side of withdraw and recovery would be helpful.... Thanks...

Also- we have talked about him coming to this board for support- (I have read many threads from BS- and think it would help.... But- we just havent taken that step yet...
Well and the fact that he tried to register on the website but was never sent a password... I tried to contact the room administrator and never heard back- this was last week... I remember receiving my password within a few hours?.... (SORRY OFF TOPIC I KNOW...)

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: OuchThisHurts ]</small>

Hi OtH,

I am glad your H wants to come and post. He can read without a user name so you can start there. Let him try again under a new user name. If you have trouble, e-mail the moderators again. They have multiple responsibilities so please be patient.

As for your current status, you are correct in your observations but I am sure you pull will be to 'fix it' for him.

Realize this, the best 'fix' for him is to let him work it out. The more time he invests in you and the family, the greater his chances of making it through this withdrawal period.

How willing is he to talk about it at different times? One thing I learned was NOT to expect a full recap all at once. Also when he responds in anger, then drop it. Learn how to show when you are hurt and sad. Talk to the wall within earshot of just him (don't want others in your household to know you talk to the wall - LOL!!) I did that and while I was facing the wall, lo' and behold, the wall replied in a kind and remorseful manner. Much easier to take then when he was looking at me with eyes of hate. See there are ways to difuse his anger.

Also you will find that as time goes on your taker will kick in and you will now require your needs get met. Please read what I wrote to Comanche. I recommend you do the same.

take care and let us know how you are doing.

L.

Thanks orchid....

I know this board is slow over the weekends- but hopefully I will get some more advice here shortly... Because this is killing me more today than yesterday.... I feel so helpless... and today I feel really hurt... Some days are better than others... But today I am feeling pretty hurt...

How willing is he to talk about it at different times? It varies with his mood lately... Sometimes we have very productive conversations- and other times I can see the pain on his face- and it turns to anger- so I just try and end the conversation and come back to it later...

There is still part of him that doesnt want to "confront" these feelings and "get over them"... The struggle is minute by minute at times....

Thanks again Orchid...

Does any WS have any advice on how you dealt with confronting your feelings for the OW- and putting them behind you... What was you r struggle like?... What did you do to help with the temptation of calling them- or sending an email?.... How did you occupy your mind?....

Dear Ouch.
The difference between your situation and mine, is you KNOW what is going on with your husband, that he is hurting, while mine hasn't a clue about me!

My crying is done when he isn't home.
I don't call the OM because he is with his lady.
I am going to try to stop e-mailing as of today!It seems as I look over the notes, that most are started by me and replied by OM...Perhaps out of courtesy!

I am not a youngster...I am 52, my husband is 54 and the OM is 61; his new love is also 61.
But the love affair between us could have compared to that of young people!
Very passionate, exciting and intense!

I FEEL in my heart for you...I am glad my husband doesn't know what is going on inside me.
It must be just heart breaking for you to have to deal with your husband's sadness in trying to get another woman off his mind and out of his heart...A really bad deal!

This may seem like strange advice but if he thought for a second that you might be interested in someone else, it just might perk him up to realizing how terrible his life would be without you as a part of it!

Anyway, that is how I feel...If I thought I might lose my good dependable husband to another woman, I probably would shape up and stop this 'obsessing' over another man.
Sincerely, Sarah
Did you read what I wrote earlier, that your husband's affair is not the BS fault in any way; not your fault in the slightest bit...It is entirely his doing, his selfish choice, just as it was mine.

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

Originally posted by Sarie:


"This may seem like strange advice but if he thought for a second that you might be interested in someone else, it just might perk him up to realizing how terrible his life would be without you as a part of it!

Anyway, that is how I feel...If I thought I might lose my good dependable husband to another woman, I probably would shape up and stop this 'obsessing' over another man".
Sincerely, Sarah

Dear Ouch,

I think the above advice is very dishonest and goes against the MB principles of radical honesty.

Please, when recovering in your marriage, do not compromise your OWN personal values of openness and honesty.

When another MB'er advises you to play games and to trick your husband, ask yourself if your own values would be compromised by such foolishness.

I am apalled that you might be coaxed to play deceptive games.

Honesty is essential to intimacy.

Placing "what I feel" above what you know is good and right .... is a one way ticket to disaster.

Please take any advice that encourages dishonesty with a HUGE grain of salt.

Pep

Thanks Sarie for the reply...
and I appreciate your compassion....
I did ask for a WS position, and I do appreciate any insight a WS might have to help both me and my H find some sort of light at the end of this terrible roller coaster.... I truly am glad that he does let me into to his head once in awhile- although it hurts me.... It does help... I know its part of the process in confronting why we are here today....

Thanks PEP-
I never have... and never will compromise my values, integrity, or morals to try and restore my marriage... I would never try and get my H to see what he has- by making him jealous....
I have seen the devestation that this causes- and dont wish my feelings on anyone- so I would find it difficult to do that to someone to make them "feel" the same way.... I do take the advice with a "grain of salt".... But also in her defense- I asked for a WS opinion, and I know how difficult it is for them to come to this board and post... So I will just respect that she did post...
Honestly when I first read that reply- I felt for her- because I think she may have said it to try and "even" the playing field.... Maybe for a WS- if that were to happen to them- they would have less guilt...?....
Just a thought....

Dear Ouch.
I didn't mean for you to have an affair to get his attention and make him realize what he would be missing if you fell for another man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I am not recommending dishonesty just a little dose of reality!

What I meant is it is important for him to realize (just as I need to realize) that when we took the chance of having an affair, we took the chance of losing our mates.

Perhaps we need to step back and picture what our life would be without them:
IF(You or My husband) FOUND SOMEONE to take the PLACE of the CHEATING SPOUSE.

I know I wouldn't want that and I don't believe your husband wants that either; but it wouldn't hurt him (and me) to think that it COULD happen!
Love, Sarah

To run a little with Sarie's thought...

One thing I've done is to only share information with WW when she asks for it. Now, my situation is probably different than yours, since WW packed up and moved out to "avoid seeing how much she hurt me" everyday. But when trying to arrange plans with the kids or something on the weekends, I've just told her things like...

"Well, I've got some things to do on Saturday morning, and then the afternoon is open. On Sunday, I have plans pretty much the whole day, so I can't do anything then."

In my case, she abandoned me, so she doesn't need to know everything up front. If she asks for any more details at all, I wouldn't hesitate to tell her the truth.

"Well, Saturday morning my dad is coming over to help me fix some things around the house, and Sunday I plan to do some cleaning, laundry, and watch football most of the day." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

But if she doesn't ask me, then she can assume for herself whatever it is I might be doing. If I have plans to go out to dinner with my parents, I'll just tell her I'm going out to dinner, unless she asks me with who. If I'm going after work to meet a couple of guys from work to watch Monday Night Football, I'll just tell her I'm going out with someone after work. If she asks who, I'll tell her the truth.

I don't know, maybe that's just more mind games. But I will answer any and all questions openly and honestly. I'm just not going to go out of my way to overload her with information she didn't ask for. If she wants to know those details, she knows how to ask. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

Dear Ouch,

So sorry you are having to go through this.

You are a saint to be patient with your WS; I commend you on that and honestly don't know how some BS's are able to do that!

I am a FWS. We are 16 months passed D-day. We agreed right from the start that we couldn't work on the M without MC. I also had IC and lots of MEDS (anti-d's and anti-anxiety. I actually literally had a nervous breakdown).

I wish my H had agreed to IC for himself so he could have had someone to talk to more about his anger. He has been holding so much of it inside and is paying for it with headaches, stomachaches, etc.

My H tried to be patient with me during the first (and worst) few months, but one thing he has said about withdrawal was that he didn't expect it to last so long. I made contact with FOM a couple months after D-day, but confessed and closed the e-mail account I had used.

About 6 months after D-day, my H heard me confide in a friend that I still missed FOM sometimes. It really set my H back in recovery and made it harder for him to have hope.

One thing I had a hard time convincing H was that I was REALLY trying to stop missing FOM. I hated the way I felt, and I was ashamed of how hard it was.

Keep hanging on - you may be in for a long ride. Even now sometimes, I still have teensy moments when I wonder how FOM is doing, but I have lectured myself enough to know all of the reasons why contact is the worst idea possible.

My H threatened bodily harm to FOM if I made contact, and it scared the you-know-whattie out of me. In retrospect, I don't think fear was a good device to use against me, but it worked. H and I have discussed it since then, and he says now that he wouldn't really do anything violent. Still, I resented being controlled by fear tactics.

It's such a difficult situation for everybody. My H said I could talk to him whenever I missed FOM or felt like making contact, but if I did tell my H when I was having a particularly bad day, it would upset him so much that I learned not to tell him - I just toughed through it "alone" usually. I wish I had sometimes just called my H at those moments and talked about my H and me, and not mentioned the FOM at all.

You could ask your H to call you when he is missing OW, but how will it make you feel? You have to think of your own feelings, too. This is SO hard on both partners.

I wasn't really alone; my faith in God, and some really good friends and loving family members helped me immeasurably. However, when it comes right down to it, the WS has to make the final decision not to make contact with OP. NC is essential in getting over OP.

The term "rollercoaster" comes up a lot on this board. That's exactly what this horrible ride is like. Both partners have good days and bad. I have had times when I was COMPLETELY over even thinking about FOM, and then something would trigger a memory and I'd be surprised at feeling sad again (and impatient with myself and ashamed).

Often when I was really having trouble wanting to contact FOM, I would come to this board and read and be reminded again of the pain I put my H through. It gets depressing to read, but at times it has helped me to reset my resolve to forget FOM.

If your H reads here, maybe he can get an understanding of what both spouses go through, and even find out he's not alone, and that there are WS's having the same struggles (and how "lucky" he is to have you standing by!).

I hate it that all of us need this board, but since we are here, I hope we can help each other. I'm not sure I've said anything that might help you, but want to add that "one day at a time" is all any of us can get through, and some days it's definitely one SECOND at a time. Hang on.

If you think of any questions, ask away, and hopefully one of us out here can help a little.

God bless.

Dear Sarie-
I understand what you are saying- but I am sorry I just don't agree with that approach... that is what got us here in the first place... If I were to turn to someone outside our marriage for emotional support through this time- Wouldnt that be doing exactly what he did to me- turning to the OW?.... If we would have both turned to each other- and laid our needs on the table- We wouldnt be here today... I would have bent over backwards to meet all of his needs.... Unfortunately the reality of this is all too clear for him- he loses ALL around- either he loses me.... or her... In his eyes he loses both ways....
I think what is more difficult for him to picture- isnt me with someone else, or a life without me, it is a life without his kids everyday.... And that above anything is what keeps him here I think.... (Because the reality of it is he is still deeply "in love" with the OW...)

Dear UN-
I have followed your some of your story.... and i appreciate the advice on what you are going through....

Like I said earlier today... Some days are more difficult than others... and today is one of THOSE days.... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Originally posted by OuchThisHurts:


My question is how do we as BS sit and watch this painful process?.... I feel SO helpless... I want so bad to reach out to him- and just hold him ALL day long to make the pain go away... (I know that isnt the right approach...)

Your instincts are very good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He needs this pain. He must work through this in order to come out a whole person.


What steps can you do until the WS is ready to start seeking MC, etc...

I would seek professional help ASAP. Don't wait too long. Tell your WH that your marriage/family is in dire need of help and you are going to make an appointment. Just take the initiative. Your H is stuck in quicksand, instead of watching him struggle, get professional help. I cannot stress this enough. If you delay MC your recovery may fall apart. This is like CPR for your marriage. Please, you make the appointment. He's too confused.


We do have a person we have confided in- and told our situation to- that has helped us both tremendously...

Yes, very good indeed. But you BOTH require a professional.

We have been in recovery nearly 8 years. Our recovery began with the MC. AND .... there MUST be NC as well.

But what do you do just in your daily routine to make it through a day.... I will tell you that I am the most patient person in the world- but this is killing me....

Your compassion is a very excellent sign of your potential for a full recovery. I admire that quality that you demonstrate. But, you are also hurting, and your needs are also of supreme importance.



Any advice from people going through/ or on the other side of withdraw and recovery would be helpful.... Thanks...

Again, he must do his part himself. His self-respect will surge once he gets back on his feet.

I suggest you write letters to each other. Send him notes.

Say what is real.... and say what hurts.

He may feel he cannot be a man unless HE CAN BEGIN TO HELP YOU.

There is some danger he will feel insignificant if you seem too helpful and without apparent needs of your own.

Also- we have talked about him coming to this board for support- (I have read many threads from BS- and think it would help.... But- we just havent taken that step yet...

The site is excellent. But is NOT a substitute for real live counseling.

How are you holding up?

This is going to be tough to hear .....

recovery is HARD.

REALLY hard.

It is natural to desire to be further along than you are.

Let yourself "be" whereever you are.

CPR your marriage .... call for a MC appointment ASAP

Pep

Dear 'Ouch'.You wanted replies from WS and in case you missed this from Diane, it was a remarkable letter.

It would be good if your husband read it.
As pepper said he needs to give and give to repair the damage he did to your marriage by his affair.
(I am talking to myself as well here.)

'Ouch',I did not in any way suggest you find an OM to talk to; please re-read my last message to you.
I said your husband should be made aware that by having an affair, he was risking losing you from his life. (talking to myself again.)

Here is the message from Diane:
"diane1223
Member
Member # 26444

posted December 15, 2003 11:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarah,
I haven't posted to you before, but like you I am a FWW. I didn't have to tell my husband...he found out. I really admire the WS who tells....it has got to take a tremendous amount of courage.

From what you say, I don't think you are ready to tell him...so I am not going to approach my suggestions to you from that angle...I think you will tell him eventually, but meanwhile maybe there are some other things you can do to help your marriage become stronger.

You said that you did things for him....but you don't mention talking to him about your needs. My husband was very unaffectionate, and I found it extrememly difficult to communicate to him that I was needed more. After finding this website and reading suggestions from other FWW, (and by the way, I sounded a whole lot like you) I started POURING out love on my husband even though I believed I truely loved the OM but couldn't be with him. I intiated sf, and affection slowly and more often than ever before. I reached for his hand when I could, hugged him often, left him notes, etc. I have been amazed at the results. Now I think of my husband during the day, and wonder what he is doing instead of constantly thinking of the OM.

The posters on this message board are right about NC. Especially since the OM in your life is moving on...you need to let go. Send him a NC letter...you will feel so free after you do it. There will be moments (well, maybe more than moments) of missing and longing for him, but they will begin to diminish if you start pouring out your love to your husband. You have to do something to 'replace' the OM in your life....and it should be your husband!!!!

I, like you, thought the OM was the greatest. Someone on this board pointed out to me that my thoughts of him were at my husbands expense. They were right about that...and the NC too! It took me a long time to 'get' it on the NC thing...but it is in YOUR best interest...and your husband's too.

So...instead of decorating the tree, and cleansing up the dog poop....(nothing wrong with either of course)...tell your husband you are going to plan a date for the two of you! Drive around and look at Christmas decorations...go to a movie...or whatever you think he might enjoy. Tell him how IMPORTANT it is to you that your marriage improve and how you want to be close to him. You can't possibly be that happy and close to him if you think you are in love with the OM. It sounds like you may be lonely in your marriage....I know that I was. It may feel a little artificial at first...but it will get easier as time goes on. You owe it to yourself and your husband to get your focus off the OM.

Another thing that helped us grow closer was go through old family pictures together. I began this time last year (when I was pretty deep with foggy thoughts just like you) going through old Christmas pictures for a slide show on the computer. That helped me realize that I didn't want to throw away the years we had spent together. I looked at the old pictures of him holding our kids, and realized how much I really did care for him. Sharing it with him made us closer....even though I still was in contact with the OM through phone calls and email. Maybe after you and him begin to get a little closer, you will be able to tell him. Good luck, keep posting and reading the boards. Diane"

Sarie-
I understand what you are saying... But I still would never but my H in a position to feel that way... I feel like he should see what I have to offer, and what his family had to offer him- and want it... I do believe that my H knows the consquences of his A.... and those are the issues we are living right now...

Rosie-
Thanks for your post... It is great therapy to read others stories, and situations... I am sorry for your struggle also- but commend you for using this forum... I have also told my H to call me when he gets the "urge" to contact the OW- but there are just too many issues that keep arising- that keeps their contact going....I would much rather him turn to me- then to the outside again... We have both tried to turn to our faith- but we struggle with it.... I know for me when I did find my walk with God- I was so much more at peace with this situation- just knowing that I had God in my life... He is new to reading and posting here- but I hope it helps him as it has helped you...He is currently struggling with his feelings- and cannot implement the NC....

Pep-
Thanks so much... you words are so powerful... and it all seems so simple when you say it... Just wish I could implement all the things you talk about- It is all just too much sometimes....
I have sought IC- and have gone quite a few times... And the IC is also a MC- she consuls with her husband... I am making it a priority- and making another appointment with her TODAY... for ME... I know its is what I need... We have been emailing all day today- just feelings- and to be honest- even though it hurts- we need to get it out and be heard... I hope he doesnt see it as "bashing", I dont like to cause pain- but in the end I knew that the conversations to make it through this would be painful...And honestly- today- I am not holding up all that well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> - but this site does help.... and it is not a substitue for IC- which reminds me I am calling her right now... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

And Sarie- thanks for the letter from Diane- it was helpful... I do respect and appreciate any WS that has the courage to come to this forum and post... It does help the BS see what you are going through....

Jeezzzzz seems like I have to "log in" every 5 minutes now!!! Is this just me or has the site made staying logged in difficult?

Well..... now that that is outta my system.......

One of the things I concentrated on during the first year of recovery was self-improvement.

I looked at myself through clear lenses. Some stuff I liked, and some was shockingly ugly. (I am talking about character traits, not looks)

Here is a suggestion:

Journal about the future "self" you dream of becoming.

For awhile, let go of trying to control the outcome of your marital recovery.

You certainly will have to let go of the idea that you can control or manage your husband's pain and hurting heart. That is his "stuff" entirely. His self-respect cannot be restored by your will, but by his self work.

Part of recovery is realizing what is "yours" and what is not. And then (this is the hard part for me) ... letting go of what is not yours.

If you can imagine yourself as a soverign individual.... what would you like to be?

Embrace yourself for who you are today, all the while developing into the woman you desire to become.

Recovery is difficult because there are so many things going on at the same time.

Personal recovery .... is a must. Begin there.

Every day is full of hope and joy. And sadness and heartbreak. Embrace all of it. Everything in your life is lovely.

You will be growing stronger, although you will feel weak at times.

You will be gaining wisdom, although you will feel stupid at times.

You will be growing in spirit, even if you feel smaller than a gnat some days.

Acceptance is key.

Pep

<small>[ December 16, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

PEP-
One good news for the day.... I made another appointment with my IC- it is a few days away because she had no other openings... but hey at least I did it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

When I started IC last year- I worked on many of those things... For ME... I realized I needed to take responsiblity for my role- and start to confront the past that brought me to the situation I was in today.... I did it while still living with my H- and this is something that I have too look at- While I took the time to look at myself- the A continued- probably longer than anyone in this situation thought it should have.... But at the time I had these "blinders" on and cared about improving ME... (which for those that know me personally- is a huge step- I am mostly a big GIVER... dont take the time for myself really... but I did learn from my IC- that GIVER=ENABLER.... and to some extent I agree with that equation)...
People who are close to me noticed the change- and I liked the way it made me feel also....
Then the "ride" continued and somewhere I feel like I can't get off the coaster.... I have lost strength again.... I am proud of what I have accomplished, and I would endure all the pain again- to become a better person for my family and for my marriage....
I am a work in progress- but I have not done much work lately...
The very first time I actually felt "peace" with this situation was after a few IC sessions- and I had some sense of faith again- and I could really know that I had to let go of those things that weren't "mine"... It was and is the most difficult thing for me to do- but when I did it was when I felt the most peace- and had the clearest mind....
And I know I will be a stronger, better wife, mother, person because of this situation... But on days like yesterday and today- that is very difficult to see.... But your support and words of wisdom do help
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> THANKS...

I am mostly a big GIVER... dont take the time for myself really... but I did learn from my IC- that GIVER=ENABLER....

If we have a habit of giving to someone things that person ought to be providing for himself, our giving seems rather selfish. It meets our needs, not theirs.

Pep

I totally and 100% agree that it met my needs...

And that is one of the nasty ugly self-things that I have had to confront....

You make so much sense- But the pain is too fresh right now... I love your insight- and your advice....

And if nothing else- posting here does help me get through the day with occupying my mind with different thoughts instead of negative ones....

Well pep...

Made the appointment... But have to wait until next week - she was just too busy.... So I might just go insane until then.... LOL...

I have started just journaling on the "self" I would like to be.... And am working hard to get some sort of emotional strength back....

I like your tag line <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />