I have been told this after I find out my wife is having a affair . She never loved me for the 18 years of marriage ,<BR>she told daughter I never loved her for the duration of our marriage , told sis/inlaw her marriage is in good shape . <BR> She said she didnt want a relation ship that she has to work on . that being a good mother and my wife wasnt good enough, she could have been so much more.<BR> was planning to leave when kids were out of town for the week and just leave a note . These are the very same kids that 6 months ago she would die for .<BR> When talking with her now about whats left and possible <BR>with our marriage ,she gets defencive ,starts shaking , yelling that she is being pressured, storms out of the place . Refuses to see counseling or refuses to say yes or no.<BR> When we tried to figure out where we went wrong she wouldnt tell me problems that she had with me . Shes says she didnt want to burden me with her problems , she was affraid of me , didnt you see me crying ?you should have known then that there was a problem.<BR> She has moved out of the house . Kids are with me .She does not live with o/m but sees him plenty . What am I up against ?<BR> Is ther a chance to salvage this ? I still love her and want her back . Kids still of course love her but are concerned about the lies she tels them . <BR> I try to help her . Money, car repairs , moving , am I being to easey? after all I did this for 18 years. A lot of family and freinds call me the fool for being so kind . Make it hard they say . She will not open her eyes until she hits bottom. Can some shed some light on this ?

Definitly to easy... you need to get the book Surviving an Affair. It will tell you how to deal with her. She is not in the propoer frame of mind right now...but you need to stop helping her...if she wants out let her find out what out is all about...she should be giving u $ for the kids if they are with you. Read the book. It will help you.

Colfax,<BR> First I would like to welcome you here. We all know how difficult it is to be here, we would love to be cuddled up with our mates somewhere else right about now!! But we aren't....we're here trying to figure out how our lives got this messed up.<P>Anyway, you have come to a good place....yes, to answer your question, there IS help for your M. There IS hope it can be saved.....please go to the home page for this site, and begin reading. Read everything on here....read and read some more. Then come and ask away. There are some awesome people here to help you. Week-ends are usually very quiet. As you have been counseled, get the SAA book from the Harleys. It is excellent, and explains everything your W is doing in great detail. It will be like someone just handed you a road map when you were lost!<P>All of her talk is very typical. Please DO NOTHING until you have read all the articles on here, and have the SAA book in your hand. You could say or do something that could send your W further away from you. You don't want that.<P>There IS help for you. We are all here. We are all going through this. We know how you are feeling now. <P>I will pray for your M and your W.<BR>Lupo

Trying my hardest<BR> My thinking is if I dont o/m will and he gets another of her basic needs. right now I know of 2 he already has <BR>and Im slipping fast.

LupoLady<BR> Book is ordered Ill keep my mouth shut until I read . It seems that in 10 min of conversation I can send my wife running. Thanks for the prayers they are much appreciated.

My prayers are with you too. Sometimes it is for the best not to speak to people, but to open our hearts and mouths in gangloads of prayer! God sees. He knows. He will help...<P>He helps us get the right heartfelt attitudes behind our words to the point where they will have a positive impact.

Whats up with these w/s ? they call you on phone and act as if nothing wrong . they sense that your bumbed out and they tell you you should take better care of yourself .<BR> They also tell the kids about the o/m and how great he is and his children are so talented. Dont these people have any shame ? God it sucks being in this position . Im so mad . How do you get back . they seem to have no remorse.

Colfax,<P>stay cool. It's the so called 'fog'. It's as though the years of marriage means nothing to them and they rationalise everything.<P>You need a copy of His Needs Her Needs - has some great principles. Read what you can on this website about Plan A, Plan B and whatever else. Then develop yourself a good Plan A and start executing. It can work.<P>In this situation your WS will be somebody who you don't know. They'll lie to you, call you everything under the sun and think they're the most normal people of earth. It'll be hard but know that whatever planet they're on, it isn't real.<P>Everbody here will support you with any advice you need or, if you just need to vent - let it OUTTTTTTTTTT<P>take care<P>

Colfax Bear~<P>I heard those word about 22 months ago. It should just be natural no work needed for real true love. But of course I didn't know at the time my husband was having an affair. <P>He told me this and I was so confused. I know that you are aware of your wife's affair. But she will have to work to keep those feelings alive in any relationship. The lust and rush of the feeling of the newness won’t last. We all have had the new feelings, I enjoyed them but will never have them again with my husband.<P>Now jump to day, we are almost 1 year past 2 d-day with the same OP. He has a different point of view now. He knows he must continue to work at our marriage, it is a work always in progress. The reward of doing this is great for both. We are very in love now. That comes from a lot of working together and building. Our relationship is so much better then ever before.<P>Sad, but what your wife is saying is what she feels today. <P>I wish you the best,<P>Judy<BR>

You folks are a lot of help, when the crap seems pretty deep and I dont have a shovel , your words have brought back to the top. Thanks and God bless you . Your words do help.

One can get buried only so deep in crap, when we hit the bottom, there is only one way to go and that is up! You're gonna make it! Keep the faith, tie a knot at the end of your rope and hang in there! (Read all the articles you can on this website--very very extremely helpful!)

Ok You guys i need your input. Wife was over yesterday <BR>both teenage kids laid into her about o/m and his intentions . She didnt realize that our kids can ask such questions and draw such conclusions . I also hear that o/m is confused that she left a big house and family for a 2 bedroom small apartment . seems like things might be hitting bottom . I dont want to make a mistake with my words .I want to be there at the right time with the right words , right feelings . any suggestions ? you folks have <BR>been good and right on the mark Help <BR>Optomistic In Colfax

Colfax,<P>Stay true to your Plan A - be the nicest guy you can be. Avoid getting angry or making judgements when she's around you. Try to stay as calm and as rational as you can. That's all really difficult - tell me about it - but one of you being irrational at the moment is enough.<P>If it's time to Plan B and break contact with her, you'll know.<P>

I am going to continue with plan A. a lot of the time that iI see her I cant talk . all choked up with emotion . So I write it down and send it to her. she says she is concerend<BR>about me ( weight loss, no sleep) but she does not accept the idea that it is from our seperation. she always has another excuse. When we do talk I believe that o/m gets to hear what I had to sayand then he gets to put his ideas in .How come we dont get that privilage ? I could make him look pretty sad also If I had a chance. Im starting to sound paranoid now aint I? This bs. sucks . 18 years of marriage and its smoldering pile of crap in several months.How can I work on her emotional needs at this time ?<BR>I know I have to but no clue how to get it done.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colfax Bear:<BR><B>How can I work on her emotional needs at this time ?<BR>I know I have to but no clue how to get it done.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Colfax,<BR> I am M for over 20 years. I KNOW what my H's EN's are. I cannot meet many of them b/c he moved OUT to live w/OW over 12 weeks ago! If you have contact w/W then do whatever you can.....after 18 years of M, you better know what some of her EN's are!! If not, I'll come slap you silly! <P>If she won't let you do it personally, then do it like I am, by letter. Yes, if she likes "conversation" then write to her just like you "used to" only on paper - you DID used to talk, didn't you? Maybe when you were dating? Tell her things, remind her of "good times." Say sweet things, if one of her EN's is "affection" so that she knows how much you care....Just be careful NOT to lay it on too thick! That would be a LB.<P>Think of your WS as someone with an "illness" - this is how it's been described. I like this. It IS true. I don't know this person my H has become! Consequently, I can be patient and loving and kind with him, b/c he's NOT being himself....he's SICK!!!!!<P>If you think of your time before you were M, how patient you were with each other, cause you were trying your dam*est to "make a good impression". To be soft-spoken, not judgemental or mean or yell or criticize. All this stuff must be done again. I think a lot of the MB principles are just good, common sense. We DO tend to take our spouses for granted....I know I did. Then along came a spider.....oh, I mean, along came a HO, oh, wait, I'll figure it out! Along came an OP, who treated him with the respect I had stopped showing him, the patience, laughed at his stupid jokes I'd heard a million times, and didn't think were funny anymore, and told him so.... and HE RAN TO BE WITH HER!!! My bad.<P>I'm learning....he's human. He has fears, he has an ego that needs stroked...I neglected it. ANd he got tired of the neglect. You CAN figure out what some of her EN's were...you know when you were making her happy emotionally. Go back to that, as much as you can. Let her see your genuine feelings for her, just don't smother her with them. <P>This is a major LB for many WS's. They are getting EN's met from OP, and they don't WANT us to do what we had stoppped doing.....all this does is confuse the he!! out of them, and make them have to make a HARD choice, instead of an easy one.<P>That's where the anger comes from, too. They KNOW they shouldn't go and do the things they do.....they are angry at US (justifiably so at first) cause we neglect their needs, and then when they must look elsewhere,that wrecks everything at home. If ONLY we'd taken care of them properly, they wouldn't have had to do this. I really think a lot of them think this way! I'm ducking now!!<P>This post is waaay too long. I'm sorry for rambling.I'm too tired to be doing this now.<P>I'm still praying for your situation.<P>Lupo<BR>

Thanks Lupo<BR> I realy know her emotional needs but other than afection and admiration what else can you do bye letter? the other day i talked with her about the xmasses we spent at her folks place . How im going to miss that if we split up . <BR>she replied when they pass away nobody will be going out there for xmass now will they. she has turned into such a cold person . this is not the same woman i married.

Lupo's post is very good. That is exactly what happened in my marriage....and it is too late to fix it unfortunately. Plan A as long as you can. Also try to fulfill as much of her ENs as possible....that will cause confusion and hopefully bring her out of the FOG. <P>MnM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I realy know her emotional needs but other than afection and admiration what else can you do bye letter? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>AH!! Affection and appreciation!! These are two of the easiest to do by letter!! These are actually two I'm doing for my H as well.....<P>In every letter, I point out some character trait that I admire. Such as saying, "I know you are such a wise person, you can figure out what is the right thing. I trust your judgement." blah, blah, blah.....it hurts to say these things, in a way, cause RIGHT NOW, you KNOW they are NOT thinking wisely!! Doesn't matter....they need to know that you know, DEEP DOWN, they still have "it".<P>As far as affection, I do that by letter, too!! I tell him how strong, how I miss his affectionate arms around me.....NOT TOO MUCH, now.....just enough so that they KNOW you admire, miss the affection and attention, and are willing to give it to them again some day.<P>The whole purpose of Plan A is to show them that YOU are still attracted to them, that you are willing to give them their EN's, even if they don't understand what you are doing. THEY know, deep down, that you could meet them, or you both wouldn't be M at all!!! It's just that they have now allowed someone else to meet them, and they are trying to convince themselves that you never did, never wanted, didn't do a good job, would never again, blah, blah. ALL FOG TALK!!!<P>Keep in mind, too, that OP can't meet ALL needs, since they don't have a "history" w/WS as you do!! This works to your advantage. SInce they are only together for a short time now, they haven't learned, as we spouses have, to meet their needs in many many ways. Granted, I NEGLECTED a lot of needs, too, BUT, it isn't ALL needs being met that OP is doing.....it's meeting (probably) most neglected ones at first. The rest of the stuff will have to be learned. In the meantime, if you continue to meet them, that confuses WS's and they can see you as a "safe, comfortable" place to want to come to.<P>Keep going, we're all here to help.<P>Lupo

wife was over on sunday we had a couple of hours together w/a pot of coffee no anger , disrespect . just good conversation . she still likes to change the subject when we talk about my desires to reconcile . Ill be patient .<BR>all this was followed by a big hug , kiss and call tomorrow <BR>. How am I doing ?<BR>

Ok folks what do you think ? the house needs aome work <BR>w/s says she wants to come over and help she says that she misses the yard work and house work, cooking , cleaning.<BR>should I let her would this be a good thing ? Is this a emotional need?