Heartache, It sounds to me like you really are ready to move forward. I think we all got on the medication for the same reasons and initially it does work, but eventually it just numbs you which is not good.<P>Like I said during W/D I went through lots of stuff and relly had to go deep, I did it and made it and found new and real love for my husband again and forgave him again. I'm not just going through the motions anymore.<P>Everything suppressed probably will come up but thats not a bad thing. You will be able to deal with it and start moving on.<P>While you are W/D if possible try and keep your life as stress free as possible. Don't do anything you don't feel like doing. If you start getting sick to your stomach what I have found that works best for me is Pepcid AC twice a day. I am taking Kava and St. Johns Wort and I feel it helps me stay calmer. Try and remember that bad or obssesive thoughts are caused by the W/D and will pass soon. If you feel like crying just let it out and that will pass too. <P>You will probably be up and down and all over the place. Its another rollercoaster ride.<P>Like I said I hope your time getting off is an easy one and I hope you get back to you real soon.<P>Lilly

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lilly:<BR><B><P>How long have you been off. Tell me it gets better and better.<P>Lilly</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lilly,<P>I have been off for 3-4 years now and it does get better and better. I have had some terrible tragedies since, so my recovery was somewhat stalled, but I managed well throughout and feel back to old my self without the aid of drugs.

Lilly-<P>Thank you again for the kind words. I do realize all you say is truth! I do know what I need to do and what I ought to be avoiding doing. And I hope I can follow the yellow brick road to the end. The hard part of all this is that I never did stop loving my H-therefore I haven't really ever hit the bottom of the barrel so to speak.<P>I do think there is a path we must follow to recovery-and while it might not be the same exact steps for each one of us the paths are all very much alike.<P>I remember back to even a year ago thinking I would never be able to "feel" any emotion at all again. Well-that passed Look at me now-joking.<P>I know that I am just tired of this road-it is by all means the longest journey I have ever taken-and the closest to HELL I have ever been.<P>And sadly-I think I will always feel a great loss and emptiness for my friend and for the marriage I thought I once had. And it hurts that I can't make it go away.<P>Thanks again-you are much to wise And I for one appreicate every word you have written and every minute you have spent on me.<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Heartache, You are very welcome. I remember how scary it was when got off this so I really feel for you when I hear you saying things I have gone through.<P>Like I said if you want to talk more just post and I will look for you.<P>Take it easy!<BR>Lilly

Just to let you all know how I am doing. Today I ahve felt much much better although I am very tired due to a sleepless night. I am NOT experiencing the dizziness and the agitation like I was. But all night last night I would wake up feeling as though I were suffocating. I can't truly say whether or not this is related to the withdrawals or just me-LOL But it was awful and I am exhausted in that sense but otherwise I am feeling a lot better overall.<P>I did start taking Evening Primrose Oil-the whole bottle (not really) twice each morning and once at night. I don't know if this was of any help or not but want to give all details of what I am doing.<P>Anyhow-wanted to give an update-in case I can help someone else.<P>THANKS ALL FOR YOUR HELP.<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Heartache, glad to see you are hanging in there. I'm glad the dizziness is lighter. Hope it stays away, but with me each day was different and things would go away and come back.<P>I had lots of times when I felt like I could not breath too. I still am not sleeping right. Anything out of the normal is probably a sympton.<P>I wanted to tell you also that a lot of doctors don't recognize w/d symptoms. They think it is a reaccurence of what you were being treated for. Even if you have all this new weird stuff going on. I thought I would tell you in case it happens to you. Hopefully you have a knowlegable doctor. Mine wasn't, had me do cold turkey and I went nuts almost and went on the net and learned all about it including how to taper.<P>You are another day closer to freedom!<BR>Lilly

I had a very different experience with anti-depressants. I wound up in the psychiatric ward 7 weeks after learning of my H's A and the child born of that affair. In the hospital I went on Effexor.<P>It was a God send. It allowed me to function, allowed us to work on our marriage, allowed me to not lose my job. I was not numbed out. I thought very clearly on it.<P>Yes, discontinuation can be difficult. My advice here is the slower the better. I had the usual stuff, dizziness, nausea, diarreah, no increase in anxiety. I was careful to continue to use the non-medication stuff that I learned through therapy--cognitive therapy, prayer and meditation, lot of exercise.<P>It really isn't addiction. Addiction involves an increasing tolerance of the drug (needing more and more of it to get the same results), and severe cravings for the drug. While we might feel ill coming off an anti-d, must of us wouldn't sell our bodies on the streets for it, rob a drug store, nor break into someone's home. They drug companies aumpahmistically call it "discontinuation syndrome." It is a euphamism for "you are probably going to feel like crap for awhile."<P>I'd hate to see our talk here scare some newbies away from seeking medical help. I agree that we should all inform ourselves about possible side effects and interactions of all medications that we take. However, I truly feel that in my case, I might very well have not been here today if it hadn't been for medication *and* intensive therapy. I was trying to buy a handgun to end my life before I checked myself into the hospital. I even had picked out which corner of the white couch I was going to sit at when I blew my head off. I also had a stash of medication, razor blades and a hose to run from the exhaust pipe into the passenger compartment of my car. I was no sh*t serious about suicide. I would trade a few weeks of nausea gladly for this second chance I got at life. <P>MJ

Mrs. Job, I am glad it helped you in your time of need. I am sure it helps many others including me initially.<P>About it being addictive. If you stay on it for too long, in order to get the same results you do have to take more and more. As for the craving it is not so much that, because it does not get you high, but you want to take the drug again to end the horrible withdrawals that some, not all experience.<P>I am not trying to scare anyone off either, just want people to get informed of what they might be getting into.<P>Lilly

Congrats on trying life without the meds. Your reasoning and logic are sound. <P>I appears as if your symptoms may be lessening.. also good. <P>Yes, I agree with everyone who advised that you probably came off the paxil too fast. I did the same thing, with similar withdrawal. It's been a week for you now (a D-Day of sorts--detox) Give it another week... use MB logic... if you take any drug at all, you're back to day one again. <P>Maintain your "no contact" with the drugs... You will feel better. You're obviously stronger than you think..<P>Kudos to you, from...<P>The Hat

Baseballhat-<P>I thank you for your kind words and the hope you sent my way. I am still feeling much better thank goodness. I hates being so dizzy and cranky.<P>I went back and looked up your psots-I guess you can say I am rather suspicious in my life now-and I see you have tlaked with the OW. She is still YOUR friend? WOW-my story on that is long. It was my friend who had the A with my H.<P>You seem amazing to me. It sounds like you are better friends with the neighbor than your H. I don't mean that to sound rude-it didn't sound right to me when I typed it It's just....................how do you trust her so much and not your H? That is sad-if he is not being truthful I hurt for you!<P>If you want to talk holler at me on MB.<P>Thanks again-<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

We're all suspicious now, I think.<P>Yes, I confronted OW.. H was, and still is in a "FOG". Confronting her worked for me, but I knew what buttons to push to make her back off.<P>She is no longer my friend, she is a neighbor and the mother of my son's best friend. I tolerated her-- even used her-- all in an effort to make the A go away. I am now dealing with H's remorse and widthdrawal because the end of the A was not HIS doing.<P>H will not even speak to her--he calls her a "taker". He is angry that she called off the A, not that what they did was wrong. I agree that she's a taker, but for totally different reasons. When her number appears on the caller ID, H won't answer it... I do. My forgiveness of both of them has shown them that I AM the better person here... and that was important for all of them to see. Sounds egotistical... but it's the MB way--kindof... H and OW now see that H & I should be together.<P>We live in a small town, we can't move. My family has suffered much pain due to the actions of H. My job is to hold my head up high as I live my life for me and my kids. H and I are getting along very well.. the crisis is over, we're working on us now... without the intervention of OW all the time. OWs kids (9 & 10) know all about the A, they even asked me how I could be so forgiving... (go ask your mom--LOL)<P>It's been hard, but this plan has worked for me.<P>I don't choose to speak to OW,, but when I have to, I do. And, I am obscenely nice.<P>I don't trust her completely, but I do believe that she will never "go there" with H again... I'm working on trusting H.. and for the most part, now, I do.<P>OW said all the things I needed to hear... regret, guilt, sorrow... H has not, still. I may never hear those words from him... But he is here, and we are working on us. His current actions show his desire to stay with me... and as another poster said... I'd rather be married than right. I can finally live with the fact that I may never get the apology that I wanted to demand from him.<P>I haven't posted here in a long time... but I've lurked.<P>Good luck... Move slowly (literally) the dizziness will subside, you'll continue to feel a bit better each day.<P>The Hat

BaseBallHat,<P>Good to hear from you again.<P>Here is a bit more information on my story. My best friend and H had an almost 2 year A-from 6-16-97 until March 1999. D-Day was 6-1-99 when H told me about the A. His claim is that she had contacted him againa nd he knew it had to end for good-they had both tried on numerous occasions to end the A but it always started back up after intervals of no contact.<P>I did confront the OW days after H told me when she kept sending me jokes via e-mail. I can't remember too much of what I said-I think it was along the lines of HOW COULD YOU. I really doubt I made much sense as I was so totally in shock.<P>She mailed back-full of apologies, how she never meant to hurt me or the kids...........Now I know she means she didn't ever WANT to hurt me. But how could she have ever thought she wouldn't be hurting me? <P>She is NOT a stupid person-in fact she is a very sly one. She uses her thinker for many useful things besides just thinking.<BR>Anyhow-after we mailed back and forth it was about 2 1/2 weeks after D-Day when I open my e-mail to see a letter from her-to my H-with a note written on it to me from her H. Her H said OW was very angry at my H and she felt the need to get this off her chest. The letter was not for me-ws very mean-and if I thought it might upset me then I ought to jsut let my H read it and I ought to NOT read it. Of coruse I read it-it was in my mailbox and H doesn't even use the computer. Plus..............I had to know what was being said.<P>She basically told him how she hated him, how he pursued her, how she ruined him, on and on. All I could see was her blaming him-I saw RED.<P>For months after this I was numb and in shock-but I never realized it until I got very angry one day. I was just seething mad. I wanted so bad to contact her and ask her why, how, WHY. I still to this day do not understand what they did. I always thought she had a good marriage and I thought we did too. WE do not fight. We work hard and we work together.<P>As couples we did everything together. WE took a thousand mile vacation via cars as families, we went out, we camped, we watched each others kids............WHY<P>Fianlly she wrote me in October 2000. I was estactic. I had been missing her so much and for so long-and I felt like I never had answers that I really needed. But without realizing it I got excited to just be friends again. While I had figured out that she had lied and "forgot" many things that would incriminate hr while nevr forgetting a thing that would possibly destroy my H and us I thought I wanted to be friends again. I can't begin to explain how much I had missed her.<P>As time went on it got too ahrd for us to be friends. My H wasn't too happy with me speaking with her. Her H made numerous "rules" that caused me more pain. He didn't want me to write to her home account-just her college email. In December she and I went shopping before the holidays together-when we wanted to go to an event in May he said he didnt want her going with me. Yet nothing had happened bad beteen her and I or our H's. She was always tlaking about the things going on in her life and I started feeling hurt and left out. Because of her poor choices I was left out and she was still having a great time. It hurt terribly.<P>We stopped talking the end of March. Two and a half weeks ago she emailed me again-the letter said she wanted to get the lies solved once and for all. Said she had nothing to hide. Wanted all 4 of us to meet and fix it. I wrote back and simply asked her where she got my new email address. She didn't respond.<P>I KNOW I can't trust her. I KNOW she is sorry-but I think she is more sorry the A was discovered and has caused her pain and unhappiness.<P>My H is more than remorseful. I have been the biggest ***** in the world and he still stays by my side. He loes me-he made a huge mistake.<P>But what is going on with this gal? Why does she continue the games wiht me? I am NOT a bad person.<P>I can't imagine you and the OW talking-although I think maybe if my H were in a fog I would resort to whatever it took. But I can't imagine her "helping" me do anything but try to destroy my H-as if he had the A all by himself........<P>At least the OW in your situation has the decency to be sorry and back out. Was she hateful towards your H afterwards as I have described the OW in my case?<P>It amazes me how they can do all they did-ruin so many hearts-and then hate. Doesn't that make it all a huge waste?<P>Thanks for letting me whine-I guess I am still hurting.<BR><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Wow! You have it so much tougher than I do.<P>H and I work together, and H has primary responsibility for the kids (getting them to school and back, making dinner, etc.). This is how he met ow (I don't like giving her the power or respect of capital letters). They chatted at school and in the neighborhood when they were getting the boys together. He kept telling me what a great gal she was, and we began inviting her over on Friday nights to drink and play pool (she's divorced (for about 2 years)-- her H had an A three years ago and he has been married to his OW for two years. How ironic is that?<P>I was suspicious immediately. One Friday night (12/00) she was too drunk to walk the 150 yards home, so she slept on our couch. (say it with me, "Yeah, right.") That was the beginning. They were soulmates, yadda, yadda, yadda. The aliens and the moose worms landed that night.<P>The rest is history. I was the bad one for not allowing them to "enjoy life and be happy". You've spent enough time here to know all the lines I heard. I tried to be quiet for the sake of the boys' friendship. Guess what, it took months for me to realize that no friendship my son has is more important than my marriage. I confronted her in anger, said my piece. Felt better, but it didn't work. I went back and spoke to her softly and pleaded for her help. I was able to get through hr pretty blonde head and show her what the moose worms had done to H's brain. She admitted she was wrong on every level and asked how she could help. I told her to just stay away. She did. She finally (weeks later) said that she wondered if she had done the same thing with her H, if she might not have lost him. <P>She still wants to be friends with H and I, and doesn't understand why that's not possible. So, I'm cordial but H is almost rude to her. How ironic. My counselor is fascinated by the way I've handled this, says it never works this way... but it did for me. <P>The one mistake I made was to immediately file for D. This gets thrown in my face often. It was a reactionary thing that I regret. As for our D... my state has "attempt at Reconciliation" where everything is put on hold. This is good for 3 months, and can be done 3 times. We're on our second extension. H still feels my filing was worse than his actions. If the ow would allow it, he'd start up the A again in a second. I feel I must prove myself to her to keep her from allowing this to happen. She is the only one with REAL control here. I hate that. Even ow asked me why, afer all the lies and deceit, would I even WANT H back. H very much feels bad that he got caught rather than bad over the pain he caused. ow feels bad about the pain... is that the difference here? ow has EARNED my trust... H hasn't. How sad.<P>I would love for her to be my friend, she is a neat person, and VERY MUCH like me-- but it will never happen. It can't. I've got many friends who are uncomfortable being around H & I as a couple, as they "chose sides" (with me) and only a few are good enough friends to support me -"no matter what". H doesn't understand how I could make peace... and I'm not telling. Someday maybe, but not for the forseeable future.<P>H may be a jerk of the biggest kind, but he's MY jerk, and I still love him and want to protect him from himself. He's been on anti-depressant meds for 3 years now... but went off them last week. YIKES! Prayers in this direction would be appreciated. LOL. <P>Did you find my posting about the rat poison?... it's worth a look for a good laugh.<P>All I've had, many days, is a sense of humor. It gets me through... Go outside, breathe deeply, look at the clouds... find the bunny or duck in the formations... exhale and say "thanks, God" for helping me through another day. God DOESN'T give you more than you can handle... he just stretches it out further than you ever dreamed possible.<P>P.S. To answer your question of "But how could she have ever thought she wouldn't be hurting me?" She DIDN'T THINK. Not rational thinking (as WE know it) anyway. "Why?" Because she (and H) thought they could get away with it. Because they thought they "Deserved" it. Stop trying to answer that... you'll NEVER get a rational answer. It's all part of rewriting the past to justify actions without accepting full responsibility. I hate that part too. They deserve a swift kick and we deserve thanks for seeing them through it. Most of the time, though, neither of us get either thing. Too bad, really.<P>My thought for the day... You can't change the behaviors of others, only the way you react to them. This was immensly powerful for me to learn.<P>Take it slowly, breathe deeply, count to ten. (I hear that works...LOL)<P>The Hat.

Check this out! <A HREF="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010825/us/paxil_suit_1.html" TARGET=_blank>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010825/us/paxil_suit_1.html</A> <P><BR>Lilly <P><BR>[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited August 25, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited August 25, 2001).]

LIlly-<P>Gosh oh dear-thanks so mcuh for sharing. I am so glad I am still feeling better than I was-or I am sure I would have been calling my doctor at home with what you just shared.<P>I would tend to side with the news article-that Paxil is addictive. I know that I am a "normal" person when it comes to taking any type of medication and I must say as much as Paxil helped me while I was feeling the need to be on it I had many moments where I didn't expect to make it through getting off of it.<P>How did you find this article? You are so kind for sharing.<P>Keep up the good work <P>Hugs to you<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

BaseBallHat-<P>Good to hear from you again. Soemtimes I think if I had a way I would take each and every person ehre at MB, one at a time, and talk to them to get all details of their story. Every little bit that someone else is willing to share seems to be of tremendous help in so many different ways. But without any of this (Thank You God for this place) I would have felt so isolated, so alone, so hurt and angry that I am sure my life would have fell to pieces.<P>Why does your H feel such "hate" towards the OW now? This is one thing that has always confused me. The OW in our case also shows much severe hate towards my H-yet she did the same thing and he doesn't HATE her. Sure, he lost all respect for her as I am sure she did him. But I am left wondering..............two people risk so very much to be together, and then it turns to HATE? Is it because they can hate better than forgive and forget? That by hating it removes the other feelings and the bad they did to allow them to focus on the opposite?<P>Yesterday we had to go to a wedding-an old friends daughter who also gradutaed with my 2nd born got married. As we were walking across the road to the church I see a car exactly like the OW's parked along the side of the church parking. Do you know how my body reacted? I didn't think I was going to make it through this Catholic wedding. My tummy began to rumble and I got the shakes again. Why do I do this? I am not afraid of her-I don't relaly much care anything about her any more. But to think she was there just threw me off. And it wasn't her <P>Will life ever get back to what it once was?<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

heartache, I am so glad you are feeling better. I was and then went back into W/D again but at least had a window into what it feels like to feel normal again and will keep working towards getting there again.<P>My husband gave me that information about it and then I went to Paxil Progress and read what is going on with that lawsuit and this could get interesting. If you are interested in more info go to <A HREF="http://www.paxilprogress.org/news/californca.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.paxilprogress.org/news/californca.html</A> and it is more in depth about this.<P>I've been following your story here and can relate. Learning how to deal with all this without a medication back up is whole other story isn't it.<P>I hope you just keep getting better and better!<BR>Lilly