I would like to hear some wisdom from BS and WS further down the path. I'll cut straight to my questions, and blather on a bit later. What are the most effective ways that a WS can show trustworthiness and what requests can the BS make (without total LBing)to feel more secure? What's fair for the BS to ask - what should a WS be offering? I know the Harley material states quite clearly that we shouldn't trust each other, but I wondered what kind of things have helped other BS and what other WS have offered/agreed to. I'm hoping that my H might also benefit from your responses.<P>I have thought of a few things that would help me. I now have a new level of adversion to cell phones - can't even bear to see a stranger using one as it triggers all of the deception that occurred in my case (I found H's second, secret cell phone 3 weeks ago, 6 months after D-day, with her number on it, of course). I have noticed that my H leaves his cell at home if he is not at work. He has given me his office and cell pass codes for voice mail(I admit, this was an ultimatum on my part, delivered in a very LBing way - I'm trying, but it's hard).<P>My H has delivered a voice mail ending the A in my presence, followed up by a letter (hand-delivered by me) from both of us. I see my H making a real effort in many ways to show me that he really wants us to make a successful recovery, however those feelings of insecurity and fear can loom large. I think my "radar" is actually pretty good, so I think I might know now if H was still in contact, however I would really like to hear from some of you re how you handled this vulnerable, horrible feeling. Many thanks -

Wanna bump this up as I need some answers to this also. Well I would like to see some answers anyways.<P> jd

When my H wanted to provide me with proof that he was serious about the end of both his affair and his dating life he gave me all of his passwords and pin numbers.<P>He put his email at work on the web so that I could check it at any time. His calendar is also online and made available to me.<P>He changed his US postal mail address to our home so that I can see all bills and statements.<P>I have access to his voicemail, bank records, etc.<P>I want to stress that this was offered by him with the understanding that we couldn't recover with out it.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

JDMac and BrambleRose - thanks for your replies. I was thinking this might be of interest to others as well. What does it mean to "bump this up"?<BR><B> Wanna bump this up as I need some answers to this also. Well I would like to see some answers anyways.<P> jd</B>[/QUOTE]<P>

Hi sable,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What does it mean to "bump this up"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> Basically it means sending it back to the top of page 1, before it moves to page 2. Some call a post that moves to page 2, "falling off the page". The longer a post stays on page one the better the oportunity for people to respond to it. <P> Ya know,"out of site out of mind" A lot of us seldom visit beyond the first couple of pages on the board. <P> Hope that helps.<P> jd

OK, next dumb question - how do you move it back to the top? I'm starting to get cyberperformance anxiety!!

Still hoping to hear from some experienced MBers. What have you asked for as "terms" to foster trust? Would also like to hear from WS as to what they have offered. Any input greatly appreciated

sable,<P> First let me say that there are no "dumb questions here as far as I am concerned, ok?<P> In order to "bump" a thread back to the top of page one all you have to do is reply to that thread. It doesn't matter who replies, you can do it yourself and just say bumping up or whatever you wish.<P> As for your question, I too am struggling with this one. The first thing I did was to tell my WS that ALL time away from the home should be accounted for. Who WS is with must be told. If I am not welcome to be with spouse then spouse does not have my trust. I may not go if asked, and normally don't at this point, but still want to know that I am welcome just so the trust starts to return.<P> You will hear much more indepth ways than my own I am sure. I would never say my way is best or even fair at this point. But when my WS follows this agreed upon POJA(policy of joint agreement)it helps me rebuild some trust. <P> We DO still drive each other crazzzzzy over the trust issue. But as the BS I have to admit that it is getting better.<P> jd <P>

In the book "After the Affair" there is a section which deals with "low cost behaviours" and "high cost behaviours" that you ask of your WS. It's very informative.

Sable,<P>I asked my H to change driving routes to the office so he would not pass her area of town. He was avaiable by phone to me at all times. He kept me current of his schedule including last minute changes. He answered every question I had no matter what it was.

We are only 2 weeks out from D-day (8/14) but some of the ways H has helped to begin repairing trust, I can't say at this point if they will definitely work or not, but they have helped me feel better.<P>1. He answers any and all questions I have, even repeat questions, at any time and in a completely non-defensive way.<P>2. I have all passwords and pins, including his voice mail at work- I had them before but never used them - I find it reassuring to use them now and make sure they haven't been changed. <P>3. As soon as he walks in the house from work his pager and cellphone are given to me and he doesn't take them with him anywhere but work. <P>4. He has been making an extra effort to meet my EN's.<P>5. He apologizes sincerely and seems to really understand the damage his actions have caused.<P>6. He has completely dropped all contact with OW.<P>7. If she emails him or leaves a voicemail, he tells me immediately and I listen to/read the message right away. (She is so mad he doesn't respond) When I have the pager and she leaves a message, I actually call and listen to it first. <P>8. She hasn't dared, but on d-day she threatened to call our home since she knows the number (she is his boss's secretary and has access to all his info.), he told her, right in front of me, on a voicemail message to go right ahead and call and she could talk to me. <P>9. He comes home from work promptly on time (big issue because he used to stop at her place on his way home). <P>10. He contacts me throughout the day via phone, ICQ, email. I know his schedule for the day and he tells me anytime there is even a small change.<P>Quite honestly, as much as he is doing, I am still extremely insecure. I am sure this has a lot to do with this being such a short time since all has been confessed. I am really looking forward to seeing what other answers you get also. <P>I wish you the best of luck on your road to recovery.<P> <P>PS I wanted to add that I find it very comforting when H offers way he can show me he can be trusted and I don't have to ask for everything. It shows me he is thinking of me and really trying to repair the damage.<p>[This message has been edited by Seekingadviceandhope (edited August 28, 2001).]

Excellent responses.<P>I too am struggling with this. My W has told me that she wants to work on the marriage, but does not want to be accountable for her time or her whereabouts. She does not want me to ask if OM has tried to contact her. She says she is not to that point yet. In the meantime, when I do question her about things it is major LBing.<P>As I mentioned in my thread posted earlier, her version of trying is different than my version.<P>S&C

I would definitely want to know exactly why she is not to "that point yet". She needs to offer a far better explanation what not wanting to be accountable. Personally, that would scare me. I am NOT trying to scare you at all and I am so sorry if I am, I am just saying what i would expect.<P>People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

Oh man! I like that!! "People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing."<P>I wonder what my wife would say if I put that on my AOL profile?! haha<P>Well, what my wife (WS) has done to help me, is allow me to watch, or at least be in the room, when she chats on AOL. That is where she met the OM and several other men she has "toyed" with, so it is hard for me to stay away while she chats, even though she always wanted me to.<BR>But that's about the only step she has taken towards alleviating my worries, and helping us build trust more slowly.<P>But I don't ask for anything. Only take what she offers. I don't let it bother me, though. If she wants to go ahead and hide her life from me, then it is obvious she has no interest in sharing her heart with me. It is up to her to make the move towards me. I'm doing all the "moving" I can do by Plan Aing as best as I can.

Thanks to each of you for your responses.<BR>Seeking - like you, I am very fresh since D-day (even though it was D-day #2. I am really into the details that you mentioned re communication devices, etc. It doesn't make me feel very good though - when I check voice mail, I feel like a creep. Now that my H decided he doesn't want to move out the work must really begin - we're doing the EN and LB questionnaires and I look forward to our discussions on the results of these.<BR>I also really appreciate when H volunteers some change he's made to deal with trust issues - he changed his route to work and shopping area. <P>JDMAC, Alberta, Cleo, Sad, Godly Man - you've given me some more to think about. I am hoping that my H will have a look at these responses - thank you. <P>As I'm writing this, I'm thinking it would be great to have a post from a WS (well into successful recovery) to WS's(who are just embarking on recovery) with some advice from the trenches, so to speak. I guess I'm just scared of stating what I need to my H (big LB risk), and think it might be more palatable coming from others comments that he could read. Maybe I'll try a specific post on this<BR>

just a bump from the end of the page

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seekingadviceandhope:<BR><B>just a bump from the end of the page </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for the bump Seeking - I would still like to hear from others on the topic of requests to boost your confidence in your spouses trustworthiness. We are very early in recovery, however I just can't seem to shake the thought train in my head that is constantly trying to come up with ways to make sure he has not re-established contact. I was willing to let this go the first time, however since 2nd d-day I am finding this really hard. He has shown many actions that clearly commit him to rebuilding our marriage, however it seems the better things are, the more gun-shy I am re getting trashed again. Can any of you help with this??<BR>p.s. he just arranged a really nice trip for my daughter and I - 2 nights, and something we really wanted to go to. My son and H will stay at home and H will join us on the third night - I really want to bask in the thoughfulness of this gesture, however I bet you can guess what thoughts keep creeping into my head!!