i hope I can state this right, because I am so confused I dont know what to do anymore.<P>H moved out for 7 months then asked to come back in May. He agreed to no contact, to calling me from work to counseling with the Harleys when he wanted to come back.<P>Once he got here he seemed to make an effort to call me and limit contact, but of course he saw her at work and heaven forbid you should be rude to a OW. ( even though at first he said he would yell at her to get away)<P>Now I know he is calling her again and sneaking out of the house early for their little lunches. So the affair is back on at least EA. H has been distant, stopped sex, wont look me in the eyes agin... you all know the signs. He has continued to be sneakier about his contact.. using phone cards instead of the cell phone.<P>So now I dont understand what I should do... contine to plan a nd not confront him about her and try to allow him to end it as he feels more connected to me.. doesnt seem to be happening so far. try and not be controling and let him go his own way... and escalate the affair?<P>I did call and make an apointment for him with Steve harley. He did call and talk, but has since expressed anger at me for making the appointment, even tho he had agreed to counseling originally. I know.. controling behavior, but geeze I was despirate to get some ouside help. So I would like to encourage him to call again.. of should I force the issue again?<P>Or do you all think I should go to plan B and allow him to figure out what he wants on his own? I think he is fence sitting big time right now. I guess I am afraid that he will not come home a second time, but then again what kind of marriage is this anyway?<P>I think if he could look at things with just a little objectivity he would know this wont work this time either... she is not leaving her H and kids, but wants my H too. I blame myself for not pushing counseling more earlier, but then again how do you make him do waht he doesnt want to? Boy I am worn out and confused. Can anyone help me?<BR>Lora<p>[This message has been edited by Lora (edited August 27, 2001).]

Dear Lora,<P>Have their cake and eat it to? What does the family get? Crumbs or less. I understand. Going through the same stuff. How about let our 2 h's do time in the "A" pentnitenary together? <P>Not want to cut off contact. Say it is just talk. Hm....OW just wants to see how H is doing. Right...... coniving, manipulating. I want in a sense to just throw them together and have them do to each other what was done to us. Hmmmph.... what is risked in the long run is a chance of any recovery. <P>I don't really see a choice for me. H told the counselor he needed to go. Can we let go? I am in sheer torment myself right now. Even with major anxiety attacks. Worse than all the other times? WhY???? I don't get it. <P>Can't give you any real upbeat support at the moment but I will send a <<<<<<hug to you>>>>>.<P>Take care Lora and keep posting, we need to encourage each other. <P>L.

Hi Orchid,<P>Maybe I need to get your phone # from Jo, seems like we are in the same place right now. I think I am wearing her out with my daily venting and anxiety.<P>I guess it is control in a way... I seem to think if I could do the one right thing it would turn things around. If only I could figure out what that thing is. Sigh, in truth it is up to them. We can stand for our marriages all we want, but without at least a little cooperation its not in our power to make them do anything. <P>I'm sorry your H is saying he wants to go... I dont honastly know if thats better then mine... saying nothing but so obviosly unhappy I just want to tell him to chew his foot off, get out of his trap and flee to OW. Maybe he could have a happy life with her, her H and 2 kids... what a womamn she must be to keep 2 men happy. <BR>Lora

Girls:<P>Not ready...not ready...not ready....and until they are ready you can't force them to do anything...my WH came home after nine months...but he wasn't through with her so when she came wagging her B*** in his face again...zip...he was in the thick again...only this time he didn't want to leave...just to have her on the side....seems like they learn something from the ordeal but the complete lesson eludes them so that have to go back for another dose.<P>Well, in this case, this last dose looks like it may cure him....or kill him one. But it has to have time to work it's magic....so let it.<P>Lora, I personally could not put up with having OW in my face all the time (phone calls, secret meetings, etc) so I asked him to leave the second time....and he's been gone for a year now...but it's been hell for him...just like he needed to realize what was really going on. <P>I think some WH just take more "bites" before their immunity to the OW finally takes and begins to cure the fog....I know mine has. <P>I just wanted to tell you not to be discouraged by this second round...it's not the end of the fight....look at Lor...she had 7 rounds of this I think.<P><BR>Faye<BR>

Hi Lora ... <P><BR>If you would get off the bloody computer I'd call you with Orchid's number. Orchid told me a while back it was okay to do, Hon.<P>And BTW: you're not wearing me out. I'm always here for you .. ALWAYS! <P>Love,<BR>Jo<P>Oh, and wait ... HEllO to you Faye! Hope your H is doing horribly if he's still w/OW.<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 27, 2001).]

Oh my God Buffy!<P>Dont try and encourage me with Lors story LOL I do not have the endurance for 7 times, I swear I dont.<P>I want to show him the movie Groundhog day. How many times will he play out the same scene before he learns his lessons from it?<P>So you would vote for asking him to leave huh? I guess I am working up to that. I hate to go through this again, but i have a feeling it will come to that. My immediate delemma is that we have vacation schedualed in one week. I cant bear the thought of another miserable vacation with him not talking to me. But I of course have some little bit of me that hopes we can reconnect on it.... proabaly unlikely.<BR>Lora

Hi Lora,<P>JO can give you my number. I am home. H is out delivering packages (new job?!?!?) with a new courier service. 1st day on the job, son's first day in school (we both took him and picked him up) and he said he is leaving all in the same day. Want more stress? Most people would say just one of those things could make a day stressful. Let's see for a man already in depression, he is trying to pile too much in one day. Dontcha think? Hm..... that fog, they think they are super fogeses or sumthin'.<P>L.

Hi again:<P>Lora, I'm sure even Lor would not encourage you to go through this 7 times...it's just an extreme situation.<BR>And whether you ask him to stay or go depends on how much you can take. My WH was very open with his business...and that was very hard...almost like a slap in the face. But I do believe that until they are faced with losing you they won't have any impetus to choose.<P>This second go-a-round has been much shorten then the first...and he wanted to come home sooner...but I told myself "not until I feel he is through with her"...so I'm waiting...for the words and actions that will tell me he is serious this time about ending it for good. And I'm beginning to hear and see them.<P>And yes, Jo, she is giving him h*** right now and I'm politely sitting by and saying "That's too bad dear...maybe tomorrow will be better. You'll probably make up with her tonight" and going on about my business. I can't believe they expect you to feel sorry for them...after all they chose this. Out of the game right now...but still enjoying the contest...it's always nice to see the high and mighty get their due. <P>Faye<P>

Lora,<P>I want to but in and ask Buffy a question. OK?<P>Buffy,<BR>Ok, you have been there for me before & I really need you here tonight to set me straight. I am having major anxiety attacks over this. Much worse than before. Very bad thoughts are coming in my head and it scares me. The counselor has been informed and we talked about it. Now look, I know better ya know? But I still shake and go weak in the hands, feet, arms and shoulders. Why? <P>How long after your H left the last time did it take you to calm down? I should know this...... arrgh I am so mad at myself. Not on any meds right now, really don't want to be. You are able to still talk with your H? How are you managing to survive? <P>Sorry Lora, I need these answers, hope you do also. <P>Thanks Buffy......... <P>L.<P>

Bumping this up and hoping to catch Buffy's attention!!!<P>L.

Well, let's see...the last time he left he was really politely asked not to return. This was the weekend after the imfamous OW scratching at the bedroom window event...I was very sick, asleep in the front bedroom and OW kept calling and calling...I was in no mood to deal with her and WH was asleep so I hung up on her several times. <P>Well, she's not one to be hung up on so she shows up...goes around to the back yard and scratches on the window until she gets his attention....he hightails it out of there as fast as he can get her away from there...but the end result was he would leave again with that alley cat when I was so sick...I had had enough....mad...I was so mad I was shaking...he knew it too...but I usually will get very upset and then quickly calm down (which is my usual nature) once I am away from him.<P>Surprisingly enough by the time I saw him on Monday I had my mind set that this was the last time he was going to do this to me...and made him understand that...very calmly....and I've kept my word...it's been a year. He still refers to it as my "throwing him out" and says he didn't want to leave...it was my choice.<P>But WH has learned a lot in this year...and everything he says is different now...oh, OW still blows into town for brief stays...but it's not the same. I think if I would ask him to come home he would...but he's still not ready...and I can wait.<P>I guess one advantage I have over some of you is that I see my WH almost every day...because we have a business together...but that also has the disadvantage of having to deal with OW in some capacity everyday too. Lately she has been coming up to the office (he says because she thinks it annoys me)...but I just ignore her. Unfortunately two times she's arrived I've been leaving and now she thinks that is a way to run me out of the office. She also calls and leaves little love notes on the answering machine...also to annoy me. I really just think she's stupid...that's so junior high...and I know she's just jealous.<P>But all in all I cope pretty well...and WH and I are using our time together to work on our problems...we usually have lunch together...and he understands that there is a limit to how long I will remain committed to this marriage (and job)without seeing some effort on his part...and he has begun to work with me. <P>He says OW will be returning to Virginia soon...and he hopes she doesn't come back...I hope that's true but I've learned to take everything he says as "telling me what I want to hear" and reserve judgment for now.<P>I am taking the time to relate all these details to you because I think my WH has had as bad a case of OW addiction as any I've read on this board...and he is coming around...and I thank MB and all the folks here for that...because they've held me together in this year, shown me the power of Plan A and letting go, been my backbone when I had none (Thanks Jo) and I've survived...and so will you.<P>Lora, I just wanted to tell you that about 6 months after the first d/day my WH came to me and asked me if I wanted to go away for a weekend in Arkansas (Hot Springs) to get away from OW...I agreed...and we started preparing...but OW showed up and begged him to go with her...it was the first time he didn't do what she wanted...we went on the trip...at times it was tense but all in all we enjoyed it very much. Three months later he came home...that trip was the beginning...time away...where she couldn't influence him or cloud his thinking. Worked for me.<P>Ok, I've rambled enough and probably haven't answered any of your questions...but at least you can see that there is light at the end of this tunnel...sometimes the worst offenders come around....given time.<P>Faye <P>

Buffy,<P>This is what I needed to hear. Your living example is important for my focus right now. You said he may want to come home but you feel he is not ready yet and you are willing to wait. Wow. I think that is what scared me. I also don't want to live through that panic attack stuff again. <P>Thank you Buffy. I didn't know what you had been through, not that it is any of my business but you have helped me see where I need to be. <P>Thanks for sharing. <P>L.

Orchid:<P>Thanks, Orchid, just wish I could help you and Lora more.<P>You know things look different when you are the beginning of this whole thing then they do when you're hopefully reaching the end...I can look back with a little objectivity at what has been the worse few years of my life...and to a certain extent all the new posters remain me of that pain and I relive it to a certain extent...but I also look back and see how things have changed...for the better I think...how WH has changed and that gives me hope to encourage others to believe in the possibility...because at one time I would not have believed that WH would ever change his mind about how he felt...but he has....and if he can...others can...with MB help.<P>Love, Faye