Hi everybody,<P>I’ve not been in here much of late – just been trying to work issues in my own way but being damned sure that I follow the MB principles all the time. So, here’s a quick update for everybody. There’s some good news in here and some not so good news depending on your perspective.<P>As a refreseher on my story, about 4 years back my wife had an EA (the OM, the husband of a friend said it was a PA). I forgave this and we moved on. This year, she started another EA with the husband of another friend of ours. I wasn’t sure what was going on but I knew something was. In June the evidence was clear and I confronted her with the situation. Since then and since finding this site I’ve been Plan Aing my heart out and learning everything I could from MB. As a tangent, over amazon I ordered Love Busters and His Needs Her Needs. I’ve read both books several times and asked my wife to do the same. She read the first couple of chapters and then slammed them for being typical American and that the MB principles were crap. <P>The good news is that by following MB stuff, I’ve changed. And I’ve changed in a number of ways. I’m really able to control myself better now, I’m able to discuss issues very openly and with emotional honestly. I don’t have angry outbursts. I don’t make or throw judgements at my wife and generally I just feel a lot better because of MB. I’ve worked on the issues which my wife didn’t like about me. I spend time with my boys doing fun stuff. I’ve lost over 16lbs in weight. I’m back to running again and I take the time for my friends. I haven’t watched the tube in months and I haven’t missed it at all.<P>So, now the not so good news. When this all broke, my wife told me she didn’t love me anymore and she told me how bad a person I was. She told me it was difficult to love me. She made me feel that her ‘affairs’ were my fault. My confidence took a dive. My focus has not been on my work and I’ve basically been a nervous wreck. I was so scared of loosing her that it was killing me. I’ve brought her jewelry, taken her to concerts, dinners, whatever she wanted. I even flew her to New York for a romantic weekend on the eve of our 9th wedding anniversary. And this was the turning point. She took everything I gave and didn’t give a damn thing back. Nadda. Nothing. And it hurt.<P>The consequence is that my love for my wife is very badly damaged. Even my friendship with her is starting to suffer. So, I decided two weeks ago to go to Plan B. I told her on the Monday – on Tuesday she’s booked a session with a counselor - on Wednesday she told me the shock had done her good and she doesn’t want to loose me - on the Thursday she wants to sleep with me.<P>On the following Monday we met with the counselor – who understood immediately what the issues were. The counselor listened and was commenting about relationships: Are you spending enough time together? Marriages are exclusive relationships: You need to show the outside world that this is exclusive. Make each other the priority in your lives. All what gets said on this site and in HN/HN was basically what the counselor said. My wife listened. She even agreed that she’d been hurting me. She said she was sorry. She said she wants a chance to show me how much she loves me. Funny thing is that when I asked her to allocate one evening a week for us and this was time that we could spend together, she asked if it had to be an evening. When I said, Harley thinks we should spend at least 15 hours a week together, she said does it have to be 15 hours can it be less. And on, and on it went.<P>Since I made the decision to Plan B, I feel better. My confidence has started moving up. I’m feeling better at work. I feel like I’m getting back in control of my life. It feels good. Real good. Now, I want to go to Plan B. I was ready for my wife, I was ready to put the effort in back in June. I was ready to make it work. After the trip to New York, I’m done. You’d treat a dog better than my wife has been treating me. I’m beginning to dislike her intensely.<P>I’ve made my decision, it’s time to move on with my life. It’s time to let her go.<P>Thanks to all my friends here, on this site for listening to my venting and for taking the time for me. I’ve never met any of you but through your words and posts I feel like I know you. Each one of you here is such a valuable, worthwhile individual – thanks for being here when I was hurting. Thanks for being here when I was in need. You are great people.<P> <P> <P><BR> <P><BR>

Freddy - I'm with you, man.<P>What exactly do you mean, let her go?<P>Has she moved out? I can't remember.<P>Have you really gone to Plan B? Your level of frustration is an exact fit for Plan B - this is what Plan B is for!! have you given her the Plan B letter?<P>WAT

WAT,<P>what I mean 'by let her go' isn't an easy answer. I've seen her change And I've seen this happen since our boys were born. She's grown as a woman and as a person in ways that I can't. I think for my wife it's a fantastic change but it's led to her questioning herself about what her life is about. I think she thought, is this it? anyhow she's out there looking for something I can't give her. This is what I mean by 'let her go'. I think she has to go find an answer to her life or an answer to whatever it is she's looking for. <P>We're still in the same house together. I have to find a place to live real quick and then I move out. I also have to go see a lawyer and check how I stand in terms of my righs. So, my intention is to Plan B within the next days but I have to make sure some basic issues are resolved first - like I need a bed!!!!<P>- Freddy.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 07, 2001).]

Whoa - wait a minute, Freddy.<P>Why are you moving out and not her? Isn't she the one looking for something?<P>If you move out, you'll be in a very weak position re: child custody, etc., unless you nail this down first. By all means, consult an attorney first.<P>Don't let her pressure you to move out. My wife tried this and I refused. She wanted it so bad that she ended up leaving. To me, that in itself was a victory. I can proudly say I DID NOT LEAVE MY FAMILY.<P>Think about it real hard.<P>WAT

Freddy,<BR>From the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you for being there when I needed encouragement. You (maybe just things) are making me tear up (you know to cry).<P>First, I want you to know that your wife is a bafoon - she is very stupid. I can't believe she would say you are bad. Just remember that someone's thinking changes between the fog. But the fact that she has done it TWICE to you, and you still tried to love her. I would love someone to show me romance, buy me wonderful jewelry - take me wonderful places. It makes me want to cry - because I don't even get any cards from him - it is so weird how the BS puts out the majority of the effort to get little in return, until they are sucked dry and fed up, and finally decide to move on. <P>You are a wonderful person, I can not see why someone would want to put another person down like she has you. She married you - she should be turning towards you. I see great things in your heart and soul (I can tell you honestly I would love to have someone like you - don't get the wrong message here - I am not saying my H isn't those things). I just want you to know that you have done really, really good; and I am super proud of you for making the changes, rising to the challenge. Your WS is so wrong, she is still standing in fog - but you don't care any longer.<P>I feel very sorry for your WS - because she is the one that has made the choices to look for other things outside your marriage, and that was detrimental to her. That was the chance she took - now you have grown up and away from her, and your perception of the person she is has changed - and she lost. Unfortunately, she lost.<P>I am not for D, but I can be for supporting your decision if that is really what you have decided you want to do. Have you been looking at the D/D boards.<P>The main thing is to know that possession is 9 - 10th's of the law - if you walk away - you don't get it back. If you truly do not care about any of the "stuff" - and you want to "start over" - then get that "new bed", etc. Where are you in the custody question - what do you want? Figure out exactly what you want before you take those steps to leave.<P>I really feel sorry for your WS - she lost a real gem. You tried and tried since June. Now that I've been through this, and going through the "no love stage" (no SF), a lot of the time I think about just starting over. I can't believe I was sitting on our couch last October, crying, because I was going to put a time limit on my marriage - and agreed NOT to bring up sex until after the first of the year. And look at us today, almost October - again - and almost still functioning that same way (no there have been changes even tho they are little steps). I don't know how much the BS can take. In my case it would probably be an entirely different story if I had a career (I mean with a degree). I had a career - just not one I want to return to - but I have no degree. Since I've been in such an emotional turmoil, it has been hard for me to focus on me. The way I believe to focus on me would be to just leave so I could mend myself.<P>Sorry to vent here about me. I wanted to let you know you are really wonderful. Just hang in there - it will probably be alot more difficult that you are imagining now - because she will turn back to your direction and finally be sorry for what she did. You will deal with alot more than what you bargain for. Remember too, we are here to preserve/save our marriages - so it is hard to go against these principles as you say the path you want to walk to.<P>Good luck, aftershock<P>

To the Top so Freddy will find.

after shock,<P>thanks for those really beautiful thoughts and words. As you can imagine, I'm a little down in the dumps today because you guessed it right. Now she wants me!!!! She says it's been a big shock to her, that I'd leave her, and she wants me to forgive her and she wants us to work on it.<P>I give up. I really do. I can't deal with this emotional roller coaster ride anymore - its time to get off and get a life. It really is.<P>how are you doing, after shock?<P>take care,<P>- Freddy<P>

Freddy, <P>(this is long)<P>What a "shock" for you. It is really good (in a way) that she has turned back your way, but you really have your work cut out for you now to come back to her. Have you explained this to her. I know everyone has dreams about the way their marriage will go. It is such a heartbreak to deal with a sour marriage. Now - You - were getting into the mind frame up and out and what possibilities you might have. Anticipating freedom (in a way). I still think you've got a wonderful soul, I truly hope you find you - and where you really want to be.<P>But . . . on the other hand, if your mind and heart can reaccept your WW, it would be ALOT cheaper (financially). It may not be cheaper spiritually, nor an option now (I heard what you said before). Gosh, if my H would buy me wonderful jewelry and take me places. If he would even give me one of the cards he bought me a year ago.<P>I really, really feel for you - decisions - decisions. Look at your marriage now. She realizes she can't kick you around like she use to, and realizes even more she doesn't want to lose you. Did she ever make a mistake.<P>Freddy, you really have to look deep into your soul, and see if you will be able to walk away from her and hurt her now. You will have to be a very strong person to do this. I hear you and feel your impatience to just be your own person. That was a chance she took when she decided to "love another" rather than turn to her H and love him (you). It really will be up to you. You'd better ask some darn honest questions and get her feed back. You know - we are here at MB to save our marriage. But there may be that chance that you really do want to fly solo. Sometimes one cannot forgive the infidelity no matter what. I just listen to these souls here, and I could not do what some of these people do. It is so immature and irresponsible to treat your H or W like that. When you marry you speak vows to each other to love, honor, and cherish - where do those go?<P>What about your children? Before you really do go solo, please do some reading about the effects of D on children. I would like to recommend a couple of books to you (1) Divorcing, The Complete Guide for Men and Women, Melvin Belli and Mel Krantzler (dewey # 306.89 Bel) (2) Standing for Something, 10 Neglected Virtues that Will Heal our Hearts and Homes, Hinckley, Gordon B. There are other books about the effect of divorce on children - one in particular by Judity Wallerstein. A very good book is: Affair Prevention, Specific Techniques That Can Strengthen and Protect Your Marriage, Peter Kreitler with Bill Bruns. It has given me alot of insight. I also like the thoughts in The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman.<P>So, I wish you all the best with your journey. Take a little more time (what is time anyway) - and do some extra reading to get some facts to make that educated decision. Maybe you've been thinking - but have you done reading? about effects of D on children??<P>I have really been suffering. It is a low flame inside me. But I really have been. I admit - I am not happy. Ever since the "shock" of the bitc* in my life like that - she was the devil. She came in so low key - thought she could snatch my H, but she didn't get away with it. Thank God, that devil was eradicated. Thank goodness that I found MB - because these principles have really, really helped.<P>Last week, I was spending too much time on MB, and I was really feeling guilty, because alot of other stuff is not getting done - not that I'm going to get fired from my housewife job - but there are things to get done around the house and I was letting myself down, and letting our MRA down. On Friday, I shut MB down, jumped in the car to go visit H at his office to discuss Radical Honesty. We are not living up to the MRA (marital recovery agreement), and I needed to spill alot of the facts so he would know where I am coming from. Alot of things I say here . . . that he does not hear. I needed to spill radical honesty, and I needed his dose of radical honesty. My main thing in life is that I wanted someone to love me - just that simple. I thought I found my best friend 15 years ago. I can put up with the rest of it if I had someone to love me. I couldn't talk to him Friday because he was in a meeting. So it built, and finally Saturday night I blew (because I've thought about leaving), I was ready to walk out - I'd be back in a couple of days to work out the separation agreement. He says he feels guilty because he is holding me back from finding what I need, but if I needed to leave he would accept that. He said a part of him wanted to let me go, but a part of him was scared to let me go. We don't know why he is having such a hard time to love me again, we just know it is there. So, we made an agreement to work harder, we reviewed the MRA. He read the MRA last night in bed; and he is finishing up HNHN. I am about ready to quit shoving books down his throat to read - which he has been doing readily. He was better affectionate on Sunday, and I washed the cars with him.<P>Maybe we've finally hit the agreement stage. I quit throwing the EA in his face, and bringing up (bitc*). Besides, if my marriage was really good, she would not have ever been able to get in - which I can guarantee no other woman will ever be able to do. We still have some issues re POJA regarding her parents - he knows I want them out too. In his work, he has occasion to see them - he knows I don't want him talking to them either (aren't I evil?). But that is so mean. If our marriage is healthy, that should not jeopardize it. And I am taking responsibility for the things that were wrong in our marriage.<P>Like they say - Plan A is for yourself. And it truly is . . . Sat night when we talked I never lost it and started crying, I never angry outbursed, etc. It was an even keel conversation.<P>Well, I need to go - please come back and talk if you need to - whatever you want to do. <P>Good luck on your decisions - I know they are hard. You will be supported just come talk. hugs, aftershock<P>

bumping up . . .<P>Freddy - an update, what's going on?

after shock,<P>I'm not sure where I am at the moment - this is crazy. Is it possible for you to go to email? It would be a help.<P>I've setup a hotmail account to commuicate over. I'm at Freddy81827@hotmail.com - hope to hear from you <P>take care,<P>- Freddy<P>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 12, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Freddy (edited September 12, 2001).]