Your wife reminds me of my SIL at times. Scary (SHUDDER!!!!)
She is repressing her sexuality, regarding the masturbating, and covering her nipples as though she had breasts at eight! (I mean, if she does...ok, but most don't!) Why else would she want her to wear a bra? Oh, God fordbid if on a hot summer's day she wore a white t-shirt with <ack> no bra at eight years old! THE SHAME!!
I remember starting a woman's movement in my neightbourhood (I think I singlehandedly initiated the topless law in Ontario by my carefree actions...hehe) by removing my top at the age of six or seven and riding my bike up and down the street like that...I had no buds or barely nipples, and I didn't understand why the boys could do it and I couldn't....
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Whenever my parents weren't looking I would strip off my clothes in the backyard and run through the sprinkler...glad I wasn't your wife's D... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] !!!<p>Your D is a girl, going through normal stages...why rush one thing yet prolong another? Well, I think it is because your wife doesn't want her to grow up, wants to coddle something, it is something she needs to feel important and worthy and it is something she can control.
Like I said, she sounds like my SIL, who says my niece is not allowed to eat at my house, (yup, I am the one who argues over if we should have pizza night and count mentally how many servings of each food group the whole family has had) not allowed to PLAY at my house, and when niece DID show up over the weekend with BIL, she announced her mommy said "You guys are all a bunch of losers!" to my kids and myself.
NIce.
Presently, niece is being taken out of her school middle of year to go to a school two towns away, because SIL feels it is the best school in the whole world (ironically, the one SIL went to..)
and all we can do is shake our heads with shame and bewilderment.
STAND UP FOR YOUR D!!!!!! SHE IS YOUR CHILD TOO!!!!<p>I get sickened when I think of my BIL's scenario...he has no say whatsoever.
SIL dictates what kids do, play, eat, think, go to school, live and associate with. I mean, she wasn't even ALLOWED to come to my youngest son's birthday, which broke my heart.
She believes she is better than everyone else and her way is superior.
Sound familiar??!!

I'm still not clear on whether your wife is actually planning to get D a bra soon, or simply "worrying aloud" that D may be needing one soon???
[b] <p>W was fighing with D about clothes Sunday am. D has to have things prefect and is very finicky about clothes that may make her feel restricted. W was complaining that D would not wear a shirt under some kind of a knitted shirt and W did not want D to wear the knitted shirt because her “titties” would should through. Then W said that D would probably need a bra soon and that many of the 4th and 5th graders were already wearing them. <p>[b] I have to wonder just how this conversation went.
<p>W mentioned the above ……..<p>Scott: Sex !!!!!!, did you mention sex? Grunt ooohhhh yea sweet thing, right here right now. <p>W: No, I was not talking sex, I was talking about our D<p>Scott: Oh, well it sounded like that to me, sorry. You want too anyway ?<p>
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

SCOTT!!!<p>Are you a for real person - or just the dark side of someone's imagination [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ----<p>Had to ask - that last post was awful! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I had a thought earlier today about the descrepancies in your wife's thoughts about your daughter's maturity... <p>About the bed-wetting, she may need to see a Dr. but - I'd almost bet - without seeing your daughter that if she's still EVEN occasionally wetting the bed - she won't be an 'early bloomer' in the area of puberty... the two don't go well together... and generally just don't happen.<p>I also feel that the monitor should go byebye - maybe drop it in the toilet??? FLush and call a plumber [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] or better yet - take it to one of those country portapotties and drop it in - ewwwweeeee don't want it back!<p>Sorry - but an 8 year old who still needs mom to go to sleep at night - just doesn't happen... and I say that as I tell my son that "yes if he get's scared he can come tell mommy in the middle of the night"... nightmares started just after dad left - and they occasionally flare up - after dad visits. Even then I still would NOT put a monitor in the room.<p>At some point wifey has to let GO of daughter. <p>Call me a bad mom if you want - but my 8 year old daughter was walking the floor with her brother who was not quite a year old - because I was pregnant and couldn't do it (ordered to stay in bed) and DAD (wonderful guy wasn't he???) wouldn't get up and do it. An 8 year old is actually pretty self sufficient if given the opportunity to be so. They are also quite capable of making good basic choices and should be allowed to make them.<p>Just my NOT SO HUMBLE opinion - but, it's a good one... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jan

BIG SIGH! After reading all of this I guess being the mother of 3 boys is not so tough after all... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Asked my 9-year old tonite of any of her friends wore bras (as I said we do have 1 in the scout troop who I know does, but wasn't sure if D even realised it).<p>She said no, but she knows a girl a year older who stuffs...<p> [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I can kinda relate to the Sunday dressing thing. My D is very particular abt how clothes feel (not binding, not scratchy, etc). She has one summer shirt that she never wears bcs it is thin white eyelet and came with a camisole to wear underneath it (and "buds" or "titties" are not an issue, just sheerness). But she hates the camisole bcs the straps feel funny on her shoulders (she hates tanks for same reason). <p>Sounds like your W is stressing in advance. Must run in the family [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ...<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Kathi

kam6318-
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But she hates the camisole bcs the straps feel funny on her shoulders (she hates tanks for same reason). <hr></blockquote><p>Boy, she's gonna hate her clothes for the rest of her life. I don't think there are too many lady-type upper underwear thingies that don't need straps to stay in place. There's always SuperGlue, I guess.

No, I don't think superglue will be the ultimate answer! <p>Actually, she is OK with swimsuits & slips that have straps like an inch wide, she just doesn't like the thin straps. She has always turned her socks inside out, as the seam bug her toes...She used to hate turtlenecks, bcs they made her neck feel "funny"...now she wears them happily, so I think that's progress.<p>My son also seemed oversensitive to me when he was smaller, and he outgrew it. My MIL tells me her kids were the same way. <p>So, I'm hoping she'll be fine by the time the need for bras, etc. arises...her doc thinks we've got plenty of time on that, which suits me oh-so-well [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Kathi

May wanna consider naturism, with all this discomfort.

Oh my goodness. This is surreal! How do you live with this Promised Forever? <p>I believe I heard a hint of a reference to your W's childhood here. If it was dysfunctional, abusive etc---you are allowing her to do it to your daughter. It is actually borderline neurotic. And guess what? I bet your daughter may end up the same if this continues! <p>I have three little ones, girls ages 9 and 11, a boy, five. I have long since given up the battle over what they wear. As long as its no more than 2x a week to school.<p>Run..dont walk..Run and trash the monitors. You are allowing your wife to cause her alot of harm. And its self perpetuating too isnt it? Lying with her to sleep, jumping to her aid in the middle of the night so is probly quite a clingy child.<p>Go to Shop Ko, Kmart, whatever, and buy a couple of sports bra's. They are sold at about 5$ a piece. No wires clasps of the sort. Your D will decide when she wants to wear, and for crying out loud tell your wife the stuff it when she brings up the bra thing to your D. Your D does not need to have self-esteem issues at the tender age of eight. The bra's sell not by cup size but chest size. My D started with a 32 I think. <p>Stand up for your daughter. Do you really want her to be schizophrenic by the time she is 16?<p>Sorry to come across so harshly. I really am a nice person. You sound like a nice guy. But you cany let your wive's peculiararities (SP?) affect your D's emotional well being.<p>Warmly,
Dara

Yup, there seems to be some neuroticism there (is that a word?). Maybe Promises is afraid to do battle with her over this because she'll cut him off completely if he does. Sorta like enablers of alcoholics.<p>Adult Children of Obsessive Moms? Must be a group like that somewhere out there.

Just thought I would put in my thoughts. I have two D. One is 13 and the other is 10. My 13 yo has been wearing a bra since age 8. She needed one. At 13 she is in a 42D. I only made it to a 36C after giving birth to her and that was mostly because of the build-up of motherly milk. I laugh with her now, especially when we hear one of those commercials that advertise pills to enlarge your breasts. Her comments to me are "People really want to pay to make themselves larger, I can't believe it". We just laugh. However, my 10 yo asked for a bra when she was about 8, although she to this day doesn't need one. I bought her the sports bra's, and she likes them, but she asked for one. I did not push that on her. I don't think that forcing children to wear certain clothing is going to help. Everytime I have bought clothing that my children don't like it ends up getting lost in the most farthest corner of their room never to be seen again. However, if they pick out their own clothes they are guaranteed to try to wear these same clothes on a day to day basis. No matter how many other outfits they have.

Had a talk with W about this. She agreed with me that we should not force D to wear something. She apparently had talked to my sister or mom about my niece facing the same issue and the sports bra was the answer. W thought that the sports bra or the other camisole thingie would be fine when the time was right for D. She most have been venting Sunday and came across like she was going to make D wear one come hell or high water. A Totally different attitude last night. We actually agreed on a parenting issue. <p>Dara, we all have quirks. Lord knows I have them. And yes I think that my W displays neurotic tendencies. Learning to live with each other and show compassion for each other is imperative. My mom is a certified therapist in children and family counseling and I keep a reality check on thongs, I mean things. She does not think that the baby monitor is harmful at this point. There are other things that W does that makes D dependant am I am slowly withdrawing from some of the activities to W want&#8217;s me to do that I have given into.

Scott, it looks like all turned out OK! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I admire your ability to see potential problems with your wife's parenting skills. Your mom is an excellent resourse.<p>Remember we all have different styles at parenting, which mean we all have our strengths and we ALL have our weaknesses.<p>It is easy for people to pick at your wife, she certainly has her weaknesses. But I bet she has some parenting skills that would beat all of us hands down in other areas.<p>If your daughter feels loved by two parents, her needs are met, and she feels safe, then you two are doing a great job.<p>Sometimes parents who bring very different approaches, ideas, personalities and skills to parenting may have a difficult time resolving individual differences. If you can peacefully POJA, however, I would guess your daughter will benefit from you and your wife's broad and varied combination of skills. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It is easy for people to pick at your wife, she certainly has her weaknesses. But I bet she has some parenting skills that would beat all of us hands down in other areas. <hr></blockquote><p>Faith Hope seems to be right pretty often. She should maybe go to the State Department.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Curmudg:
<strong><p>Faith Hope seems to be right pretty often. She should maybe go to the State Department.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>What a nice thing to say! Thank you! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I gotta stop that stuff or I'll ruin my reputation.

Here is part of something I posted elsewhere on another thread:<p>"My W, when she was 20, had no problem with going out without a bra; and three decades later, she still doesn't have a problem. However, our daughter who is well out of her teens now, would not be seen dead without one if she is going past the front gate. By the way, she has little or nothing to show (D, that is).<p>Thirty of forty years ago, boys seldom started wearing underwear wntil they were about 14 or 15. <p>Similarly, girls, unless they were a little too endowed, did not get their first bra before about 14 or 15 years of age.<p>Today, they are barely 10 years old with almost nothing to show and their mothers start getting them bras — some of the same mothers who did not get their first bras they themselves were age 15.<p>In our case, even though D is in her 20s, my W tells our D that she doesn't need to be in a bra as much as she is (she has little to show) but D thinks otherwise."<p>I think parents, especially mothers, force the poor things into bras when the girls are not even conscious of their emerging selves.<p>Clyde

<small>[ September 23, 2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

HAHAHAHA!! That was me as a kid-I couldn't stand wearing a bra.
I got my first bra when I was in grade 7, because I started to get little bubbies. That was the asme year I got my first period, and my birthday is in DECEMBER...so I was a youngin'....<p>Whatever happened to the bra thing, anyhow, Scoot?!@

I got my first bra when I was in grade 7,

As I recall, back when I was in 7th and 8th grade there were several C and D cups running around, of course you don&#8217;t think that I was interested in that stuff at such a young age do ya. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] But, most things do seem to grow faster in the south [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p> Whatever happened to the bra thing, anyhow, Scoot?!@ <p>Still has not developed into much yet, pun intended [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] If you look up high on this page you can read where W was okay with the sports bra stuff. D is getting more and more independent. I have a feeling as D gets older and her and W butt heads W will end up dumping the issue on dad. <p> If she does NOT need a bra - I would say you might need to pull rank - or at least when she balks at wearing one - support your daughter in this choice.

Well, pulling &#8220;rank&#8221; with W is dangerously close to not getting any [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Seriously, it should be a POJA issue. Jan, you know that W&#8217;s feelings should be considered in all decisions. <p> Honestly, I think this is the kind of thing that reasonable people can dissagree about.

I&#8217;m not so sure that when we try to negotiate or agree that &#8220;reasonable&#8221; is anywhere to be seen.

Try to find a reasonable compromise with your W

Like maybe I could wear the bra [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]