<p>[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Lulu ]</p>

It's no more a sin to be 'childless' than it is to be a 'parent' (NOTE: I did not say "have children"). I do not beleive in having children you don't want or don't plan to love and care for. I do however believe that there is nothing wrong with procreation and having a family. <p>I was NOT flaming you - only reminding you that you were coming off a bit strongly! I also tend to come off strongly - as you've reminded me a few times over the (maybe too long while) that we have been posting our often opposing views. That in itself is not a problem - unless someone feels singled out by our posts.<p>Sorry you felt singled out - I didn't intend to hurt your feelings or to flame you. <p>Somehow I missed the other post you were mentioning. I do not condone cheating in any form. Being irresponsible enough to get pregnant during an affair would be absolute insanity - but there are a lot of mental cases out there. I could hardly control them. I would not condone MURDER/ABORTION in that case either though.<p>As for who gets the golden egg for being the most 'despised' (swingers, adulterers, childless, too many children, ets...) I think you've all missed a few posts... I'm a SINGLE PARENT WHO IS POSTING WITH MARRIED FOLKS - and I quite often get informed that my advice is 'unworthy' or 'unwanted' - I've even been asked to 'leave this forum'.<p>BUT --- "Like the tree standing by the water - I shall NOT be moved..."<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Determined to learn more!!! I do have something to offer here - even if people take what I say WRONG - I still have something to offer. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jan

<p>[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Lulu ]</p>

baba --- <p>I'm beginning to wonder if there is something DEEPER in your past that makes you say these things? Is there something you'd really like to get off your chest here - or are you just in the 'put down women for giving birth/smoking/drinking/etc.' mode....? IF you really have a problem - I'd be interested in hearing it --- maybe some one here can help you a bit... <p>If it's just a putdown session - maybe we could help you adjust your thinking a bit so you aren't so angry with any specific group of people? What cha think?<p>Jan

In my last post, I said I was going to stop going on and on about it to Longlegs out of respect for you. Isn't that enough for you? Not having or having children has nothing to do(in my mind) with smoking, drinking, overspending, women who use men. Except when those women put the KIDS at risk by their bad behaviors. And when the family is in such upheaval that the children cannot thrive and become problems themselves. <p>I don't ever put you down for having children because you did not USE your ex husband's and you aren't run by your addictions or overspending. You are not selfish and you treat your children well. At least that is what I see by all your posts. You have already made me tone down my Childfree stance out of respect for you so isn't that enough????

Hi baba--<p>I'd like to suggest that especially for new posters we stick to suggesting MB material according to how they request advice. <p>It's my perception that your post to bigdaddy88 got off-track into another personal gripe about who has kids. It also had the potential to veer off into a smoking/non-smoking debate. Neither subject was introduced by the thread originator, so let's try not to dump more issues onto his lap when he's needing specific help, okay? We can always save other debates for separate threads. <p>In general, I very much agree with you that SO many times children are brought into this world by, to put it mildly, people who do not develop good parenting skills. It disgusts me too. I'm just concerned that we stay on-track with helping people who already HAVE kids and not dwindle into whether they should have had them or not. In bigdaddy's case, I believe he needs to deal with the here-and-now.<p>Thanks! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by baba2:
<strong>In my last post, I said I was going to stop going on and on about it to Longlegs out of respect for you. Isn't that enough for you? <p><snip><p> You have already made me tone down my Childfree stance out of respect for you so isn't that enough????</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Sorry Baba - but I'm not sure I noticed any toning down when I read your post to BigDaddy88. It sounded like a direct hit to me - and it wasn't even the issue of his post. If by some chance I misread your post - I appologize. If not, I think you need to rethink your personal issues in this situation.<p>We are here to help - and I'm willing to listen if you'd like to work on this issue - or any other. I was concerned about you - that's why I posted to you.<p>Hope this helps. <p>Jan

I posted to Bigdaddy yesterday and though I do not see anything really bad in that post, you already chewed me out for that one the other day so I have since changed my ways(if you have not noticed )in my post today. Look at the dates and times on the things I have posted if you are so concerned. How many days would you like to continue to "chew me out" and am I not allowed to offer up another differing opinion here on this public forum? You must really be an unhappy person to keep chewing on me personally even though I said nothing bad about you or anyone posting on this forum.

nope - not unhappy at all - and not upset with you - I just wondered if there was maybe something that you wanted to get off your chest? <p>Was offering an ear... not chewing on you. There is a difference.<p>Have a nice night Baba! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jan