Hello all... first time posting... it's a long one... sorry in advance.

My wife and I have been together for 15 years, married 13. And have 2 kids ages 9 and 6... The past several years we have been in a downward spiral which came to a head in February when my wife gave me the choice of divorce or marriage counseling... That conversation ended with a mutual decision of divorce as well as a general plan of how we planed to move forward... It was a Friday night. Over that weekend I crashed pretty hard as the decision kind of sank in. And Monday morning I told my wife I changed my mind and wanted to do anything I could to fix our marriage and make things work... She agreed we could work on things but also told me she had begun to open her heart to someone else... It kind of surprised me a bit.. But the fact the divorce was on hold and we were going try and work it out made me happy... At her request I immediately started therapy to fix my communication issues (the major problem in our marriage)... I started outwardly showing my love for her (the major "need" I wasn't fulfilling)... I basically fixed all my shortcomings that lead up to the divorce talk in a very quick timeframe. I attribute this to the 2 day "crash" I went through... It's like a fog was lifted and I rediscovered the love I had for my wife...

After about a week and a half things started to change... she stopped saying "I love you"... she didn't want to kiss... she made it a point to shut the lights off when we had sex... Basically she was pulling away hardcore... I called her out on it and asked if things were progressing with this "other guy"... I told her for us to work on things she needed to be in it 100% or it just wouldn't work... I asked her to stop whatever relationship they had... She got very defensive. Told me to stop controlling her. That she needed time... This same conversation happened several times over a 2 week period.

So after another couple weeks of me showering her with love and doing everything I possibly could to make her happy... And her continuing to pull away from me... I told her if she didn't stop the relationship with the "other guy" I would have to start letting her go... She didn't give me an answer either way so I left the house to go drive around and think... After 4 or 5 hours and her texting me to come home I finally did. She told me the relationship was "complicated" but agreed to stop and work on us. (By the way at this point I was aware it was mainly an emotional relationship with kissing. They were friends who grew closer over time due to each having martial issues.. But she refused to go into anymore detail)... The next morning she told me she broke it off with him.. I was happy and the next couple of weeks seemed to go ok... But I still didn't feel she was being honest with me.

After a couple better weeks my wife went on a yoga retreat with one of her girlfriends for 5 days... Being home with the kids and having plenty of time to think myself. I decided my wife needed to tell me the truth about the "other guy" situation. There were still many unanswered questions I had that she absolutely refused to address... So the night she came home I asked her about it. She refused again.. which pissed me off.. I asked her if she was still talking to him.. She said yes but only as friends... Turns out he is a co-worker and she "has" to talk to him... I completely lost it... started to leave... somehow ended up in the closet with the door closed and her blocking it... what ensued was the most intense fight we had ever had (non physical of course)... I was more upset about the deception... Here I am thinking this guy is out of the picture and we were finally working on "us"... But that wasn't the case.. Eventually we calmed down. I told her she needed to completely cut this guy out of her life. If she has to talk about work it ends there. She agreed.

The next morning I took things into my own hands... Started going through her phone/text records. One number stood out.. And through the magic of Google came up with a name... I texted her to ask if that was the guy... She freaked out... I told her to tell him if he didn't stay out of our lives I would give his wife a call (Google is amazing)... That apparently scared the life out of him... I didn't trust my wife to actually end things with him... which is why I took this step... Even after this happened we had several fights about her wanted to be "just friends" with him...

So since that event I was able to squeeze what my wife tells me is the full extent of their relationship... They were friends... he kissed her first. They were work out buddies at work. Would take long walks on break and make out. Would hide in the stairwell at work and make out and touch each other. She swears sex never happened... But to me cheating is cheating no matter the extent. In the most delicate time of our marriage when we're supposed to be working on "us" she was using that time to further another relationship.. I was and am still completely devastated.. She has yet to even admit or say the words "I cheated"... she tries to justify her actions by saying "we were in a bad place"... Her apology consisted of saying she was sorry for the situation... And even blames me for her being vulnerable enough to make that choice. She has zero accountability for her actions. She expects forgiveness but I an no where near that point yet. When we are together things are perfect. We show each other love and affection... the sex is amazing... it's like nothing ever happened. But then we go to work. And all I can think about is them together. She swears they don't talk or see each other. But they have to talk at least sometimes... She applied for another position that would stop them having to talk.. but it would move her to the same floor where they would be closer together. I wouldn't ask her to quit... Her job is extremely specialized and she's spent 12 years getting to where she is... Economically it would be a stupid decision.. but the wounds will never heal as long as they are close... I still feel like I'm spiralling downward because of it..

So that's my story... anyone who read through all that I appreciate your time... obviously there's probably things here and there that were left out.. but that's the basics... mainly just looking for opinions/Advice on how to move past this gut wrenching feeling of being cheated on... Should I just forgive and move on?... I still feel there are things she hasn't told me... but we are kind of past that phase.. Would I be wrong to ask more questions?

Welcome to MB and sorry for what has brought you here.

You are correct to be concerned about them working together because as long as they see each other ever day you can be sure the affair is still active. Affairs are highly addictive and as long as she sees him she will remain hooked.

You need to expose their affair, especially to the OM�s wife.

Have you read the exposure thread?

Do you have spyware on her devices?

Read Exposure 101

Yes I have read the exposure thread... I want to tell the OM's wife more then anything... my wife asked me not to for several reasons... mainly she says it could destroy her career... as much as she has hurt me through all this I still can't bring myself to hurt her in anyway...

No I don't have spyware on her device...

Hi, Caster, I am very sorry for the circumstances that bring you here.


Ignore your wife's advice. She doesn't know how to save a marriage. Don't discuss this decision with her - just do it. In Dr. Harley's experience with marriages that have recovered from infidelity, exposure is very likely to be the first step. Think of it as an intervention for a drug addict or alcoholic. You don't plan the intervention with the addict! If you did it would lose its effect.

If you want to save your marriage, don't discuss Marriage Builders or this forum with your wife for now.

Do you have Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair? You can get the ebook from Amazon and probably read it in a single evening.

Please tell us what has been done on this list, and what is left to do:

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

As long as your wife and the OM work together at the same place, your marriage will never recover.
This would be like letting a recovering alcoholic work in a bar, but expecting her to stay sober ...

Though she swears sex did not happen, I would encourage you to just assume that it did.

As for forgiveness, here is how you will recover: when the affair is dead forever and no affair could ever possibly resume, and your wife is in love with you and you are in love with her, forgiveness will not even be an issue.

If you expose her affair, she will be angry for awhile. It will be rough for you.

If you don't expose her affair, you will be forever wishing you did.

Agree somewhat... as far as exposing to everyone (family and friends)... I haven't even considered that as something I am willing to do... from day one of the initial divorce talk we've handled all of this without letting anyone know... the only person I want to expose it to is OM's wife.. which could cost my wife her career...

That's what I am afraid of...

In that case, your best course of action is probably to file for divorce, not talk to your wife about it, get it finalized as quickly as possible, and never see or talk to your wife again.

You can't keep your marriage and her keep this job. Both of those things are not possible.

You might as well get a quick quiet divorce.

Asking for the second time, do you have the book Surviving an Affair? You probably need to learn how marriages can be saved from an affair if you want to save yours. Even if you don't there's still some good advice there to help your personal recovery.

Well that escalated quickly... just want to be clear... I do not feel my wife is still cheating on me... our marriage over the past 3 or 4 weeks has been great... my issue now is the fact that her and the OM still have limited contact which is killing me... the general consensus i am getting from here is she either needs to quit her job or we are doomed... correct?

No I do not have that book

<sorry this is so long-winded, but many of the things you mentioned reminded me of the fog babble my WW was spouting when I discovered her affair.>

Caster,

Welcome to MB, though I'm sorry for the circumstances that brought you here. If you read a few of the other threads in the Surviving an Affair forum, you'll note many similarities to your situation. I'm sure there were problems in your marriage (caused by both of you). I'm sure you have regrets...that you should have showed your love better, or you should have avoided doing things that bothered or hurt her. This is a normal response from a BS (betrayed spouse). But make no mistake, her behavior and comments to you are fog from the affair. She's in an addiction, as powerful as any drug or alcohol. She makes as much sense as a drunk or drug addict right now. So fix any mistakes you have made (i.e. clean up your side of the street), but the offenses you may have committed PALE in comparison to her affair. Like the difference between a fistfight and a nuclear strike. Don't beat yourself up too much, your love for her may be making you blame yourself for all of this. Don't do that. She'll seem like an alien right now or like someone kidnapped your real wife, it's all the addiction of the A talking.

Now about you. How are you holding up? Most people are on an emotional roller coaster when they learn of their spouses A. Dr. Harley recommends asking your doctor for anti-depressants while you go through this. You're going through a major trauma, one of the worst things you'll ever experience. You'll need to be calm and in control if you want to recover your marriage, or even if you decide to get divorced. AD's will really help in this regard. Otherwise, make sure you eat, and get enough sleep. Strenuous exercise really helps, too, as does getting sunlight.

I strongly suggest you listen Dr. Harley's short video: Infidelity: What Every Couple Should Know

Your wife's affair is very typical, in that it started with a friendship at work. Also typical is for workout buddies to have affairs. I recommend the following two articles on this phenomenon:
Are "Friends" a threat to your marriage?
The Risk of Opposite-sex Friendships in Marriage

Dr. Harley's book "Surviving an Affair" has the best chance for saving your marriage, if that's what you wish to do. It's orderable from the Marriage Builders website, Amazon, etc.
Much of the content & concepts from "Surviving an Affair" are available for free on the Marriage Builders website page: How to Survive Infidelity
This section (and the book) will give more information on concepts and terms used in affairs such as exposure, Plan A & Plan B, recovery, etc.

You'll read many terms that you may not have heard about: The love bank, emotional needs, love busters, the giver and taker, policies of radical honesty/joint agreement/undivided attention, states of intimacy/conflict/withdrawal.
The Marriage Builder's Basic Concepts covers these topics. It's a pretty quick read, and gives a really good understanding of the Marriage Builders concepts for how romantic love is created and destroyed.

The forum members use a lot of acronyms (BS, WW, A, M, AO's, DJ's). Keep this link handy: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u.../acronyms-abbreviations.html#Post1984040

Finally, you've found the best place on the internet to help you. The vets on the forum (MelodyLane, BrainHurts, markos & Prisca, indiegirl, SusieQ, and many others) have been through this themselves, and they have also helped thousands of others over many many years. They know what they're talking about. The advice they offer is Dr. Harley's advice, and no one knows more about recovering from affairs than Dr. Harley. Listen to the vets here, they'll give you the best advice you'll ever get. Your situation seems typical so far, but they'll refer you to Dr. Harley by email or his radio show if needed.

Many betrayed spouses drag their feet about exposure, and they all later regret not doing it sooner. Exposure (per Dr. Harley) is essential for stopping an affair. No marriage can survive an ongoing affair, so follow the vets' advice about exposure.
MelodyLane's Exposure 101 thread provides everything you need to know about how to expose.

Unfortunately, you'll find out soon enough that if your WW (wayward wife) continues to work with the OM, the affair WILL continue. We've seen this type of situation played out endlessly....it's remarkable how similar affairs are to each other, it's like they're reading from a script. Her A will continue unless she ends all contact with the OM, which means one of them needs to get another job. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

The saying "believe nothing that you hear and half of what you see" applies to waywards, in spades. While she's in the affair (and if she ends contact, for some time while she goes through withdrawal), she'll be spouting nonsense, lies, the rewriting of your marital history. Remember, her addiction is causing her to behave like this, and she's on her own emotional roller coaster. She'll go from acting wonderful to you to ignoring you to lashing out at you, it's all expected. Remember, too, that many waywards want to sweep the affair under the rug. If she's continuing the affair (nearly 100% certain if she still works with him), her "acting wonderful" may just be to lull you into complacency, to keep you from being suspicious. (also typical wayward behavior)

You need a plan. Dr. Harley's "Surviving an Affair" is the best plan to recover from this. Please go watch the video link in my first reply to you, and read the "How to Survive an Affair" articles that I linked. It won't take you too long, and will help you understand the advice you're getting from the vets here. And order the book, Surviving an Affair.

At this point, please don't mention Marriage Builders or this forum to your spouse yet. We're here to support you, and at the present moment, your spouse isn't yet in the right frame of mind. If she ends the A, goes NC (no contact) with the OM, and goes through withdrawal, the fog of the affair will eventually lift and she'll start to think clearly again.

Thank you abrrba... I definatley dont blame myself for the affair... She places part of the blame on me... I think if my wife could at least accept responsibility for it that would help me alot... overall I'm doing alright... depression isn't really an issue for me right now. I love my wife but am indifferent to the final outcome as things stand... I want this to work but if it doesn't i will be ok. The only time I get sucked down is when she's at work... when we are together all is well...

Yes, that's the expert opinion Dr. Harley gives, having seen many marriages where contact with an affair partner never ended, and we have seen it many times here on this forum. As you put it, it is killing you. You can't recover that way, and your marriage can't recover that way.

It might seem like just semantics, but as long as they are still in contact, regardless of what they are or are not doing, basically their contact is continuation of the affair and will continue to hurt you.