Not a nice place to be. OW is no longer working for H but phone calls between them are continuing (and probably other stuff too)<BR>I asked him if phone calls were going on and he angrily denied, it escalated to a serious fight (he pulled my hair and threw me down)...then...the next morning....he admits to the phone calls (all about work...sure....tell me another one....)He also gave me an ultimatum....either I stop hassling him about OW and I start believing what he tells me or I must leave the house and the children.......At that point I told him I would stop accusing him....just so that I could get in my car and go to work....All this accusing and fighting is affecting my kids....they did really bad at school this marking period....I must stay with him for my kids......for at least another 4.5 years. At that point my son will be 18 and my daughter 21 and she will be able to handle a separation a little bit better.....unfortunately.....all I see is more lies ahead of me.....and if not this woman, then other women......there is no hope.....I must keep quiet and not mention the other one's name.....let him do his thing....which will kill me....inside.....I am already dead, do not have any motivation or feeling to do anything in life....I am trying to finish my bachelors degree in business, I only need 10 more courses and just withdrew from 2 because I could not concentrate or absorb anything I read....I have no motivation to do anything.....I just want to curl up and die....I never felt so horrible in my whole life.....but I have to stop mentioning her name to him....

From what I can see, you cannot stay in your situation another 4.5 years. Your children are evidently witnessing some of the violent characteristics your husband is exhibiting. You do not have to stay in this situation. Your children are old enough to make their own choices here. Be careful. This sounds as if it could get volatile.

Sad4,<P>This is not a good situation. Do you feel safe? Has your H been abusive before? His throwing you down combined with the ultimatum of playing his way or the highway looks very controlling and abusive to me. You have choices. You do not have to stay if you do not feel safe right now (nor do you have to make the decision to leave forever, but you can get out and get to a place where you can think more clearly). Why do you concede that he has the power to "make" you leave the house or the kids if you do not play by his rules?<P>Sad4, this is not the way to rebuild your marriage for the longterm. What your H is asking for is ludicrous! Either believe me (even though I admit I already lied to you about continued phone calls) or get out. He is really asking you to ignore his lying or get out. Is this really what you want?<P>Do you have a counselor? If so I would call and see about your options and I would not hold back any of the details. I would go so far as to ask about both shelters and legal protection. If not, I would contact the nearest women's resource center. You may think I am overreacting and I do not know your whole situation, but from what I see in your post you are frightened and not thinking rationally and at the very least I want you to have a chance to step back and think in a place where you feel safe. <P>Please sad4, you know your kids are not doing well now as witnesses to you and H's fighting. Please reach out to someone nearby who can help you think through this. YOU HAVE CHOICES AND YOU ARE AN IMPORTANT PERSON.<P>Please post back...<P>Starpony

Janie and Starpony:<BR>Thanks for your insight...My husband has never raised a hand on me for almost our entire marriage (19 years)....he is not normally violent but....my accusations make him crazy....his parents own the house, not us, my 16 y.o. has been distraught over this situation, she even ran away to the park one night and we had to go find her....as far as the house, because I do not own it, I am the one that would have to get out....also, my kids live very comfortably in this house, they have everything, a beautiful room, each with a TV, video games, and computer....something that I could not offer to them in an apartment.....If I left I would be punishing my kids and I would not be able to see them every day.....that is why I say I am between a rock and a hard place....situations between us get out of hand because he absolutely wants me to believe him, and when I say he is lying he loses it....he is normally a violent person but this situation is making him crazy too....at this point, I will be fine because my in laws are visiting us for the next 3 months, and my MIL supports me and has told him he is married to an excellent person and he never should have done this to me....she told him I have every right to be angry with him but there is nothing she can do for me except to try to let him see how wrong he is.<BR>I thought about the legal advice...again something for me to do down the road....the bottom line is my kids....I love them to death and I have to put them ahead of me for a while longer......thanks again for your support......

Sad 4 ever....<P>You wanna slide over in that seat, the boat to nowhere - where we both hold season passes? Sounds exactly like my situation.<P>Except that you have the evidence, and I don't. It helps me realize that even if I had the proof, it wouldn't change a thing in my husband's behavior.<P>The other sad thing that I realize, that no matter what I do - in this cycle of abuse, it does not change his behavior. Because the abuse is HIS problem, and not mine. Same for you.<P>Start some counseling with someone trained in domestic violence... I am doing the same thing.<P>There are other options in this life besides "shutting up"..... and you and I both need to find the guts to access them.<P>God bless you and me<BR>TNT

Ooops!!!!<P>On my reply to Jaine and Starpony....I messed up......it should read "he is not normally a violent person"<P>Sorry....

Sad4ever, we were posting at the same time. <P>Are there other things your husband does to "control?"<P>I'm going to ask a couple of questions that are not related to infidelity. If your husband is a control freek, like mine, then his level of control for himself is wayyyy low.....<P>Does he make you wait on him? Saying he will talk to you, but never does? Does he tell you that you are the one without patience? Does he make you feel like you are damned if you do and damned if you don't?<P>Does he control your material resources? (House?) My husband did this too. I went to a lawyer and got this changed a couple of weeks ago. He didn't like this one bit.<P>Does he procrastinate promised work around the house?<P>Does he withold information, say "I don't know", "I didn't know I had to..." Avoiding blame, and twisting things to make you the one that is blamed? <P>Does he make you beg, plead or do without regarding material resources? Does he use body language and gestures to try and control you?<P>Stomping out, driving recklessly, walking away, hitting or kicking something, walking away, refusing to talk, withdrawing or witholding affection, roll eyes, etc.<P>Does he regard you as less than equal? Does he say things like: "you aren't THAT stupid, are you?"<P>Does he say "I'm not listening to you", patronize, mimick, laugh or smirk at you, bafflegabbing (talking in ways intended to mislead or misinform) start in sentences, and then say "forget it"?<P>If so he using controlling behaviors. And he is the one with the problem, not you. <P>Your problem with him can end, his problem with him will only get worse unless he gets help.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.drirene.com/control.htm" TARGET=_blank>www.drirene.com/control.htm</A>

Hi trustntruth:<BR>Sorry you are in a similar situation....if you had told me three months ago that I would be in this situation I would have said you must be crazy.....anyway...let me tell you that I have no concrete proof either that my husband is making these phone calls, I told him that my "sixth sense" tells me he is...he does accuse me of not having proof....I informed him that all I need to do is call the telephone company and get a listing of the calls he has made to her house...that's when he fessed up to the truth...the next morning...he probably thought it over....but...I was right about the phone calls....if you have a feeling....you are probably right......the point is that he keeps lying to me......why are they such liars ? and very good liars.....with a straight face and angry denials too....incredible........

liars.... A good offense is a good defense? Only thing that I can say of why....<P>Maybe this you will find interesting....<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5043_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5043_qa.html</A>

Answers to trustntruth:<P>Luckily the answer to most of your questions <BR>is "no" at the moment....however....he was doing some of this stuff BEFORE discovery....<P>1. he would complain the house was not clean enough (but I do clean, I just don't clean every corner, every week) so I would tell him to clean whatever need to be cleaned instead of complaining to me.<P>2. he and his parents are controlling about the house we live in...it will be my husband's when they die.<P>3. not controlling of me in any other way<P>4. was overly critical of my appearance<BR>(I had gained too much weight....but now lost 22 pounds over this crisis and am wearing a size 10 once again....thank God...something good happend to my body) He hates overweight women....the OW is a size 7/8 or less.<P>5. he "picked" on me for every little thing, he "picked" fights with me and would make me cry.<P>6. he would come home late from work, after having been with the slut and would eat dinner without saying one word to me....I really thought he hated me....did not know what I was doing wrong....but his relationship with her was turning him against me......the slut was smart and beautiful....those words came out of his mouth one day.....(why didn't that trigger something in my head then !!!!)<P>7. He does not make me wait on him, he gets his own food (not cook it) and irons his own shirts if I am too busy<P>8. NOW, he talks to me more than ever<P>9. He does not control my resources, the banking, bill paying and discussions about money is done together<P>10. he does do work around the house<P>11. He does not withhold information unless it has to do with OW<P>12. He does twist things around sometimes<BR>During one of our fierce fights he said to me<BR>"how do I know you are not having an affair ? <BR>Who is putting stuff about me in YOUR head? "<BR>that statement really hurt me....I could not believe the twisting around he was doing.<P>13. He does not regard me as less than equal<BR>except that he seems to think that "President Clinton is too much with these women, why doesn't he just stick with one ?" He never said the Pres was wrong in having an affair....now why didn't this frame of mind<BR>trigger in my head....gee my H thinks its OK to have JUST ONE girlfriend.<P>14. He does not patronize, mimick, laugh or smirk at you.....I laugh at him when he lies to me....and this makes him MAD.....<P>15. He is a good father, a good provider, a good son to his mother and father but he has no INTEGRITY.........and he is obviously not commited to our marriage......other than that he is a great guy.<P>LET ME POINT OUT THAT I WILL TAKE 30% OF THE BLAME OF WHY HE MAY HAVE STARTED THIS AFFAIR.<P>1. weight gain<BR>2. communication problems<BR>3. busy life with full time work, coursework, household work and two teenagers<BR>while OW has nothing to do all day, she made him feel like he was it......<P>

I am glad that he doesn't do those things, and perhaps he is so frustrated about this affair and the conflict with his marriage, that he just lost control for a little bit there.<P>But you should protect your relationship from lovebusters (opening your mouth in an angry way) but he shouldn't resort to violence to shut you up, either.<P>Something is WAY out of wack here. And I think you can't live 4.5 years like this. Okay, so he may be on his good behavior for 3 months, but something has to give. <P>Why don't you call the site and talk to Dr. Harley, and find out what he can coach you with? <P>God Bless you and me<BR>TNT

Hi sad...<BR>I will just say that I have been very controlling in certain circumstances of my marriage ( not financially or physically). I do use the body language, the eye rolling, the phrases...etc. I am not proud to admit that I can be a real D***HEAD at times. This all stems from what I was exposed to as a child. This doesn't make it right by any means. Circumstances in your marriage being what they are...your H still has absolutely no right to physically hurt you! Anger, guilt or shame on his part, are his problem and he needs to deal with these. From my point of view, my wife's accusations about my continuing the affair made me say some of those very same things that your husband said to you. This was because I was feeling guilty. I was wrong and that's all there was to it. But damned if I was going to let her know that so deny, deny, deny. I think he is protecting himself from his own guilt through acting out on you. I hope I am wrong , but I don't think so. Take care of you, your children are not going to want you to be hurt just so they can see you all of the time, GUARANTEED!!! They will not lose the "things" that they have if you leave. The tv, the computer will all stay there, right? Do you think that these things are more important than yourself? I will tell you that they are not!!! You need to examine what is right for you. We all are behind you, whatever you choose, we just don't want you to be hurt.

Sadforever: Dear friend: I don't have much time to write, but he should have never touched you in such a manner. No matter if he is not a normally violent person. I have done my share of screaming and even hitting, but my spouse (God knows why) turned around and walked away or out the door. I felt awful for ever laying a hand on him. You have a right to question and discuss your relationship and how this OW plays a part in it. But, if he refuses to talk, then that's his problem. You also have a right to a peaceful life and so do your children. It may not be in theirs or your best interest to stay in a prospective violent situation. They maybe alot stronger than you think. Talk to other professionals on how to handle this situation and how to talk to your children in dealing with this problem. You can still keep your spouse in good standing with your children if you find help early or else if you wait, they may see his real colors and become more confused. I wish you much luck and I will be praying for you. Also, I am not a professional, I am a friend who does not want to see you get hurt, physically or mentally. My love to you.