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What are you going to do? Are you going to wait to expose? If you are in the position to have an expert advise you, I think it is wise not to ignore that.
I get a feeling from some of your postings that make me wonder if your expectations of exposure are realistic. You also seem to be selective in what advise you follow and what actions to take. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I am drawing wrong conclusions from what I am reading. But it would certainly not harm to ask for directions again. I wrote to Dr. Harley. I will let you know once I hear from him. I got a response from Dr. Harley really quick. Here it is: I'd follow the advice of your lawyer because he knows more about the risks of exposure in your case that I would. Your divorce should go to court as soon as possible, and he would know how the court would view your exposure. You may be better off without it before the divorce, especially if the divorce is soon and there is no hope for reconciliation. You can expose the affair after the divorce is over.What are you going to do? Are you going to wait to expose?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I can see where Dr H is going with this one, since you've waited awhile already, there's no harm in waiting until all the court stuff is done with. What timescale are you looking at now until it's all done?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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If you are in the position to have an expert advise you, I think it is wise not to ignore that.
I get a feeling from some of your postings that make me wonder if your expectations of exposure are realistic. You also seem to be selective in what advise you follow and what actions to take. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I am drawing wrong conclusions from what I am reading. But it would certainly not harm to ask for directions again. I wrote to Dr. Harley. I will let you know once I hear from him. I got a response from Dr. Harley really quick. Here it is: I'd follow the advice of your lawyer because he knows more about the risks of exposure in your case that I would. Your divorce should go to court as soon as possible, and he would know how the court would view your exposure. You may be better off without it before the divorce, especially if the divorce is soon and there is no hope for reconciliation. You can expose the affair after the divorce is over.I agree 100%. You have nothing to gain from exposing before the settlement and everything to lose. Typically, we don't suggest following the typical advise not to expose from an attorney [they always say don't expose] but in this case, you should follow that advice!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The time zone difference complicates the exposure. I have read from a number of posters that they do regret not finishing the exposure within 1 or 2 hours. Some have mentioned success from posting on FB walls for about hour and then removing. Knowing WW and OM are hot heads and have large egos I find this extremely tempting; This would seriously be effective. Remember when he infringed in our marriage and I told them to stop and then they did it again. They do not listen or care. Another poster had a very effective exposure by exposing in 3 overnights over the weekend - Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights - less than 72 hours. I am thinking of following this strategy since I cannot finish the exposure within 1 or 2 hours. I do not have all emails addresses and I will have to use FB for most of WW friends. The main challenge is when to send it to Spouse of affair partner/OM. Friday Overnight EST 12:00AM - 8:00AM = Saturday Evening Auckland 4PM - 12:00 AM Creates a surprise and tsunami effect in the morning of WW 1. Send to our very close friends and family. The problem is WW's father wakes up at 1:00PM. He will see this 5 hours after WW has been notified. 2. Spouse of affair partner/OM - she will see it before she and OM go to sleep with OM getting a tsunami effect the following morning but then she will have told OM already. I can tell her to call WW at 2AM her time which will 10AM WW time. 2. Workplace exposure - they will see it on Sunday 7PM EST/Monday 11AM Auckland Saturday Morning EST 8AM - 4PM = Sunday Night Auckland 12:00AM to 8:00 AMCreates a surprise and tsunami effect in the morning of OM 1. send to 1 Elderly of affair partner. OM's parents are dead. 2. Facebook exposure of OM Saturday Overnight EST 12:00AM - 8:00AM = Sunday Evening Auckland 4PM - 12:00 AMSend to the rest of close friends and family. Sunday Overnight EST 12:00AM - 8:00AM = Monday Evening Auckland 4PM - 12:00 AM Send to rest of OM friends and Family Converting Auckland Time to EST: https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/new-zealand-auckland-to-estAny gaps you see or ideas? So, when you do decide to complete exposures, I would just keep it really, really simple. All you need to do is use civil language, avoid too many paragraphs and tell as many people as possible that they had an affair. That's pretty much it. I would tell people, directly in messages (not a huge fan of Facebook walls*) and send those messages out within the space of a few hours. It doesn't matter when people read them. Just do it quickly on your end. If it's a group message, and people contacting the affairees are saying stuff like " OMG EVERYONE knows!" then great, but don't sweat that bit too much. That bit is the job of others. *it's fine, I guess, but you are not really talking *to* anyone specific on Facebook walls, whereas in messages you are talking to a selected person who is 'important in our lives' or 'I thought you should know this' it's a bit like telling people from a soap box in the park; I'm not exactly opposed though..
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I can see where Dr H is going with this one, since you've waited awhile already, there's no harm in waiting until all the court stuff is done with. What timescale are you looking at now until it's all done? I have no idea so is this lawyer because no one knows what WW is thinking. I just pinged my lawyer. I am waiting for the response. She has been asked to have a lawyer since January and she just comes to the court without one. We haven been to court 4 times. The judge has shouted and warned at her to get a lawyer and that things will not go in her favor if she does not have one.
BH(me)-48 WW-43
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If you are in the position to have an expert advise you, I think it is wise not to ignore that.
I get a feeling from some of your postings that make me wonder if your expectations of exposure are realistic. You also seem to be selective in what advise you follow and what actions to take. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I am drawing wrong conclusions from what I am reading. But it would certainly not harm to ask for directions again. I wrote to Dr. Harley. I will let you know once I hear from him. I got a response from Dr. Harley really quick. Here it is: I'd follow the advice of your lawyer because he knows more about the risks of exposure in your case that I would. Your divorce should go to court as soon as possible, and he would know how the court would view your exposure. You may be better off without it before the divorce, especially if the divorce is soon and there is no hope for reconciliation. You can expose the affair after the divorce is over.I agree 100%. You have nothing to gain from exposing before the settlement and everything to lose. Typically, we don't suggest following the typical advise not to expose from an attorney [they always say don't expose] but in this case, you should follow that advice! Thank you Melodylane. I agree. I will head that advice.
Last edited by WierdSituation; 07/20/18 09:59 AM.
BH(me)-48 WW-43
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So, when you do decide to complete exposures, I would just keep it really, really simple.
All you need to do is use civil language, avoid too many paragraphs and tell as many people as possible that they had an affair. That's pretty much it.
I would tell people, directly in messages (not a huge fan of Facebook walls*) and send those messages out within the space of a few hours. It doesn't matter when people read them. Just do it quickly on your end. If it's a group message, and people contacting the affairees are saying stuff like " OMG EVERYONE knows!" then great, but don't sweat that bit too much. That bit is the job of others.
*it's fine, I guess, but you are not really talking *to* anyone specific on Facebook walls, whereas in messages you are talking to a selected person who is 'important in our lives' or 'I thought you should know this' it's a bit like telling people from a soap box in the park; I'm not exactly opposed though. Thank you very much indiegirl. Amazing advice. You are WUNDERBAR. I will wait and expose after settlement. Yes, I will use direct FB messages and direct emails - talking *to* specific people. As for the Facebook walls I was thinking of doing it as an addition to the FB messages and emails. I was thinking Facebook Walls scare the **** of out the affairees. I would be if it was me. I will aim to do it in a few hours. The devil is in the detail. The time zone is challenging in terms which slot of hours I should pick for maximum effect.
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Again, I am in the realm of personal opinion on this one but I disagree that Facebook walls are the scariest way to go: if they only HEAR what you are doing but can't SEE, that is scarier than something visible. It also dilutes the message that you are only targeting people because they are important.
If they can see it, It also means they have contact with you via Facebook and are not blocked; I think this is a terrible opportunity for comments/defences/attacks from them or from cronies. It's much cleaner and graceful to not engage with the waywards at all.
Attack and retreat. Don't stand there like a nelly waving a flag of where to attack you.
Though it may have been done, and done well; I don't think the advantages are always equal to the potential drawbacks.
There is the little matter too, that exposure does not aim to scare. You are informing people firstly, and letting natural consequences for the affairees follow. They *Do* have to know that it was you who exposed, and that you stand behind and own the decision to do so, but I think there are other ways to achieve that (simply telling them so).
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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So, when you do decide to complete exposures, I would just keep it really, really simple.
All you need to do is use civil language, avoid too many paragraphs and tell as many people as possible that they had an affair. That's pretty much it.
I would tell people, directly in messages (not a huge fan of Facebook walls*) and send those messages out within the space of a few hours. It doesn't matter when people read them. Just do it quickly on your end. If it's a group message, and people contacting the affairees are saying stuff like " OMG EVERYONE knows!" then great, but don't sweat that bit too much. That bit is the job of others.
*it's fine, I guess, but you are not really talking *to* anyone specific on Facebook walls, whereas in messages you are talking to a selected person who is 'important in our lives' or 'I thought you should know this' it's a bit like telling people from a soap box in the park; I'm not exactly opposed though. Thank you very much indiegirl. Amazing advice. You are WUNDERBAR. I will wait and expose after settlement. Yes, I will use direct FB messages and direct emails - talking *to* specific people. As for the Facebook walls I was thinking of doing it as an addition to the FB messages and emails. I was thinking Facebook Walls scare the **** of out the affairees. I would be if it was me. I will aim to do it in a few hours. The devil is in the detail. The time zone is challenging in terms which slot of hours I should pick for maximum effect. I exposed in the middle of the night when everyone was asleep and a great many people were likely to rush off to work without reading messages in the morning. It was still very effective!
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Again, I am in the realm of personal opinion on this one but I disagree that Facebook walls are the scariest way to go: if they only HEAR what you are doing but can't SEE, that is scarier than something visible. It also dilutes the message that you are only targeting people because they are important.
If they can see it, It also means they have contact with you via Facebook and are not blocked; I think this is a terrible opportunity for comments/defences/attacks from them or from cronies. It's much cleaner and graceful to not engage with the waywards at all.
Attack and retreat. Don't stand there like a nelly waving a flag of where to attack you.
Though it may have been done, and done well; I don't think the advantages are always equal to the potential drawbacks.
There is the little matter too, that exposure does not aim to scare. You are informing people firstly, and letting natural consequences for the affairees follow. They *Do* have to know that it was you who exposed, and that you stand behind and own the decision to do so, but I think there are other ways to achieve that (simply telling them so). Great explanation. I got it. Thank you so much.
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I exposed in the middle of the night when everyone was asleep and a great many people were likely to rush off to work without reading messages in the morning. It was still very effective! I see. Weekends seem to be effective in the sense that people have time to talk about it and contact her also. On the other hand they maybe busy with activities and they are not at work. Since this was a workpkace affair I sometimes think it could be better to expose during the day on a weekday and it will get people at work to talk to each other about he affair especially the crew that is still at the company. Maybe I am overthinking. I guess it is a decision between weekend and weekday.
BH(me)-48 WW-43
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You are indeed over thinking:)
That is not surprising though. You've had lots of time to think about exposure.
I would avoid going down the rabbit hole of 'what other people will Do.' Focus on your part when the time comes.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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You are indeed over thinking:)
That is not surprising though. You've had lots of time to think about exposure.
I would avoid going down the rabbit hole of 'what other people will Do.' Focus on your part when the time comes. Thanks Indiegirl. I will do so. Always great advice. I really appreciate it. I am focusing on other things to get my life going. I will not think of exposure for now. I do not why she is delaying the divorce. The last 12 months have gone without anything achieved. Even the whole 2.5 years really. The main tangible danger I can guess of is she wants to accumulate funds to buy me out of our multifamily house. In any case I cannot think of what she is thinking.
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This summer: she continues opposing everything that the children, my lawyer and myself have been suggesting. She also does not want kids to take tutoring classes that prepare them for 4th and 7th grades. The grades from these upcoming two grades are extremely important to get into top middle and high schools as there are the only ones considered. Kids have so much extra time even after being enrolled in many camps.
She continues to shout at the children's lawyer and my lawyer on calls.
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How do you deal with a female who is using the system that favors females?
One of my biggest hurdle if not the only one in this divorce process has been the system that favors females. I know the courts where we live have been too lenient towards her and yes towards females. So far she has got away with too many things that men would never get away with. I wonder many times what to do. Sometimes I think I cannot beat the system.
Interesting... She is of South American origin and she never wanted to be called white. All of a sudden in this whole divorce process she has been writing down on papers that she is white when she always had put Latina/Hispanic. She is doing everything that the system will favor.
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Parenting
I have tried to push my lawyer for full custody but he has said that sharing custody lets you not to get involved in court battles which will be expensive. Now after realizing what WW is he wrote...
If you cannot co-parent then so be it. So far, she has made it impossible. That puts us into a trial which is fine. We just need to be prepared with every document and factoid in chronological order for your anticipated testimony.�
It looks like this is where we are heading. I will start preparing the following
1. Powerpoint with a slide/slides for factoid and explanation
2. Written journal
3. Calender of events
Any tips / ideas on
1. What how to prepare for a trial?
2. How to help the lawyer?
I will not be surprised if WW says let us settle and not go for trial and. She waste my time so much. But I will prepare all out trial now.
BH(me)-48 WW-43
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What are you going to do? Are you going to wait to expose? Brainhurts, I am going to wait to expose. Sorry, I had missed your questions.
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Any tips / ideas on
1. What how to prepare for a trial?
2. How to help the lawyer? 1. Keep it simple. Judges are human. They do not want a long litany of stuff to sort through. By all means have your journal/calendar etc to hand (make copies) but do not use them unless you are asked. So for example, you might state that you are currently the primary custodial parent. If your wife challenges this statement, you quietly hand out the document that you have prepared which lists which days they have been with you. Otherwise don't. 2. Only bring up things that matter. Judge care about the division of assets and the welfare of the children so keep to those issues. 3. Go through everything your wife has said and (especially) written over the last few months with respect to the divorce and her post divorce plans. That will tell you what she is going to use against you in the trial. List each issue, refute each in turn for your lawyer. Keep it short, keep it organized. Don't guess.
3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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Any tips / ideas on
1. What how to prepare for a trial?
2. How to help the lawyer? 1. Keep it simple. Judges are human. They do not want a long litany of stuff to sort through. By all means have your journal/calendar etc to hand (make copies) but do not use them unless you are asked. So for example, you might state that you are currently the primary custodial parent. If your wife challenges this statement, you quietly hand out the document that you have prepared which lists which days they have been with you. Otherwise don't. 2. Only bring up things that matter. Judge care about the division of assets and the welfare of the children so keep to those issues. 3. Go through everything your wife has said and (especially) written over the last few months with respect to the divorce and her post divorce plans. That will tell you what she is going to use against you in the trial. List each issue, refute each in turn for your lawyer. Keep it short, keep it organized. Don't guess. Thank you living_well. Great advice. I am following it. So much has happened in the past and your advice helps me to focus on the important things.
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Update:
I need to give things I need the lawyer to subpoena on OM asap. What things can be subpoena on OM? Any other ideas that my lawyer can use OM?
Lawyer wants to chase the OM away and stop the affair. He said we will subpoena OM. He is even also enthusiastic, super confident and positive about going to press to expose everything that has bad things that WW has caused in this divorce after we reach divorce settlement. He knows how to go about it. He is not doing this to rack my bills. He is sincere.
I was thinking of the following from my lack of experience
1. credit card and debit transactions for the 7 months when WW and OM were active in Sydney
2. Linkedin emails between WW and OM since 2012 till now
3. Gmail emails between WW and OM since 2012 till now
4. Texts and Calls between WW and OM since 2012 till now
5. Money transfers
6. work and clients that they have done.
I was thinking that if the subpoenas could contain language/ topics: money laundering, adultery, family destruction, children�s welfare, children abandonment, marriage infringement, immoral behavior.
Any other language that can be used?
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