Can someone help me understand how someone can be such a liar?

We were in love when we were teenagers and he broke my heart-sleeping with someone else at the same time as me, 'til I figured it out. He was my one and only. So, he lied then.

After 20 years we found each other again. I have always loved him and just knew he would have grown up after that long. We got married, but it didn't take long to figure out he was a jerk. He lied to get back into my life-told me all the things I wanted to hear. He hasn't lived up to being a kind person. After 12 years, I can see he has ZERO confidence, but puts others down-which I found myself not even realizing I was doing it back to him. I feel like after 20 years and now 12 more, a person would be more grateful for a second chance in life. We both have gone through other bad relationships.

So, back to the lying. Alcoholic. I told him about 5 years ago (after I found a large garbage can full of empty beer cans) that if he ever drank again, I would leave him. His mother's side are all alcoholics.

Anyway, we had been talking for weeks about ordering this program (after many other failed counseling attempts) as the last ditch effort. He said he didn't want to do the Honesty Agreement, as there was stuff on there too personal. This is after we signed the agreement to do the whole program. So, we agreed to do it and then burn the papers. Then he just wanted to do the answers verbally. I said OK.. Then, he didn't want to answer a few personal things... became an argument. He acted like I was horrible for asking him one of the questions.

So...We SEEMED to be making some headway. Feeling more close and I was so happy that it seemed we were going to be okay and I felt love for him again. I had SUCH HOPE. But after day 3, there was some family drama and it came out that he had been drinking. After dealing with the very serious drama, I asked about how often the drinking went on. He tried to minimize it, as he usually does-back-pedals, diverts, doesn't answer... FINALLY got out of him that he has been doing it at least twice a month and "only 2 or 4 beers." Sigh...

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I see the Honesty Policy requires him to tell me that he was drinking... Can someone help me here... Am I crazy or does the policy require that he was to divulge that??? I'm pretty sure I know the answer. What hurts the most is knowing full well he was supposed to be honest. He let us kiss (after about 6 months) and he lead me on that he was being honest. Such betrayal. Then i look back and feel this is all he ever has been and I can't trust him.

He has a track record of lying, back-pedaling, cheating, avoiding problems...

YES I AM THE FOOL.

I could write a book here, but I will just ask... Am I just an idiot to think this has any chance? His answer is always "I'm sorry, forgive me... now let's move on." Then it ALWAYS happens again and again. Not just the lying but other ongoing problems. I don't want to pretend to be innocent here, as I have become insane from all this. I respond. Then when I try to talk to him about past stuff and why and how it happens and I want to figure out how to avoid it, he can't handle and says, "I just need to forgive him." I DID or I wouldn't have gotten back with him. I HAVE or I would not have tried NUMEROUS times to just put things behind and start fresh. It's like an adolescent relationship. My family is a generous and giving family and I have always been that way, but this man... so selfish. I don't understand. I don't understand... My heart is BROKEN.

I don't feel I can trust him... especially when he KNOWS this was the last chance and he was so willing to risk it. HE NEVER TAKES ANYTHING SERIOUSLY and expects me to handle everything. He has NO BALLS. Will NOT deal with things. Now I know why he always went off to his basement when we had problems. He was drinking.

I feel so lied to and useless. No matter how many times I forgive and try to start fresh, he just slaps me in the face. Even now, when we have fought for two days... he WILL NOT deal with this-he just says he would like to do the program... He won't admit how he has treated me... so what's the point of the program?

We also have an 11 yr old daughter. I think God doesn't want me to divorce, but this hateful life isn't good either.

I feel I have wasted so much of my life on someone who just doesn't care... I'm so tired.

Hii Brokenheart, welcome to Marriage Builders. The biggest issue I see here is a failure to follow the policy of joint agreement, "Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse." If he would do that, he wouldn't have anything to lie about. One place to start would be to make your lives so transparent that he CAN'T hide his drinking. That is where I would focus if I were you. Make your lives so transparent that he can't possibly sneak off and drink. When is doing his drinking?

Is he an alcoholic? Are you doing the home study program?

The Policy of Joint Agreement

Hi. Yes, we started the program, but only got to lesson 3 in Love Busters. We did do the online seminar and filled out the online forms and "Honesty" Agreement. So, now I see that he lied on the forms, not mentioning this problem. He said he "should have told me", but this is typical... it's more like, "Oh, no, I go caught." Like a teenage boy. I raised two boys... I can see.

Yes, I agree with you, total transparency, but it's now hard for me to trust someone that was "supposed" to be "working" on our marriage all this time, just to find out all he was doing is drinking for half our marriage. He claims it's been twice a month and just to get (I'm not sure if it is true) a straight answer about that was like pulling teeth. How can I trust someone like that? How does someone live that way? He has always filled my head with "oneness" and "special kind of love" BS... and this is what he does.

To be honest, I'm not sure I even want to be with someone so deceitful anymore. I want him, but I hate him- I'm starting to think this is just an unhealthy thing. I am so depressed I can hardly get out of bed... it is hard to do anything... I feel like the walking dead and I'm supposed to be working on a public mural project-I can hardly get myself to work on the design. Then I think of our daughter and God... a divorce would hurt her-she loves him so much, but so does our angst and fighting-even when we try to keep it away from her, she still senses it. And... what kind of person would he wind up with if we divorce and my child get exposed? And also, I believe the stress is really starting to affect my health/heart... I feel like this is an unhealthy spiritual soul tie and like I am going crazy and I need someone's help to know if I'm just being emotional or if I'm really going crazy and need to end it.

I've had to be a strong person for so long-i have seen over these years how he will get me worked up over a situation in our lives to the point of blowing my lid, then "I" have to be the "man" and go deal with it/people... It has taken me a while to figure this thing he does out. He has no spine and puts things off on me. I seem to have a bigger "pair" than he does. I hate to say it, but he pretended to be a man to get me back into his life, but he is just a coward. Won't deal with anything.

I'm sorry-I am venting now. I just feel utterly alone. I want to do the right thing, but the pain... and our problems just seem to go from bad to worse-and he won't accept his faults and tries to turn EVERYTHING back on me... even gets mad at me for doing what HE does. Numerous times, he has complained that when we fight-I get to the point of yelling, but he can't see what he does to me is just as abusive. Always a double standard. Hypocrite.

Yes, he is an alcoholic-but lied about it before marriage. He still will not admit that he is one. I don't understand alcoholism, but if someone's willing to choose drinking over the marriage; if someone is willing to lie about drinking; if someone's family is full of alcoholics; and lies to the point of not even coming clean on the LAST ATTEMPT to work on a marriage... Doesn't that seem like an alcoholic??? Or am I just stupid? He also used to do drugs for a few years and smoked his whole life-he does neither now... but then again... stupid me trusted that he wasn't drinking either. So the point here is he has an addictive nature.

I agree about the Honesty Policy-but just from this LITTLE excerpt from our lives, does it seem he would be willing to be honest? He has already lied on the forms and to my face with EVEN with this program... How could I possible know if he was being honest IF I were to try to continue with the program? Does that mean I would have to be by his side 24/7 to make sure he couldn't buy beer or take a drink? And... is someone like this even WORTH it?

Who is your Marriage Builders coach? Are you on the private forum?

We don't have a coach. When I emailed the company, Sandy said to come here or I could get the coaching service. For some reason, I thought it was included in our purchase.
I'm on this forum... is there a private forum... It was hard enough to figure out how this one works, as I am not computer savvy with this stuff.

I find myself here again after 7 months or so. We have been in counseling for 3 months after the last attempt to do this program was not taken seriously by the husband. I was told he couldn't trust "me"-laughable, after I kept giving his lying, cheating behind chance after chance.

On my own I have realized this man is not only brain damaged from drug use as a young man, but drinking as well. He also came from a mom with 9 step-fathers and a his father's wife treated him badly-he was not raised-never got the "pick up your shoes, take out the trash, don't drink out of the jug, save some for others..." over and over again, like the rest of us. He was a rebel and tried to grow up too fast, moved out on his own at 16 (back and forth with parents). It EXPLAINS a LOT, like while I have for almost 13 years felt like I was/am with an adolescent, why he has an ego of a 5 year old, can't take any criticism OR SUGGESTIONS without acting like its a stab in the heart. A complete coward. Dear, God, if ONLY I HAD not made such a mistake.

Our child now pulls out her hair. She is 11 going on 15. She used to be so friendly, lively and happy. Now she walks with shoulders slumped, like him. He enables her, is the Disney dad, so she (one person at least) can't see him for what he is, a liar, cheat, failure. I am sick to death.

Even knowing all these things, he doesn't try. He won't do the counseling homework, unless forced and anything he "does" do is short-lived.

I don't believe divorce is what God wants, but I also know He doesn't want me hating, resenting the husband constantly. I examine myself and know that I have tried to start from ground zero with him so many times, only to be slapped in the face. I feel like I am the only one trying to be an adult, to save the family, our child...

I really didn't get any helpful advice several months ago. I guess I am here asking if this is a lost cause or not. I believe God can change things, but after 13 years... He hasn't. I know I am not perfect, but I can honestly say I have tried and this man just doesn't seem to be serious. Would I be wrong to leave him if he is "sick" or am I keeping my health and sanity, both of which I feel I am losing, not to mention the well-being of our child. Is there hope? What am I doing??? I am so heart-broken. I am trying to hold it up, but am losing all hope and strength.

Hi Brokenheart, your situation is hopeless as long as your husband refuses to follow the policy of joint agreement. Most alcoholics will not. I read through your thread and it is very clear that his behavior is affecting your mental health, which harms your ability to parent your child. If I were you, I would plan to separate and if your husband doesn't change, you should divorce.

I would also avoid calling him "sick" [he is not] and focusing on his childhood. He is very probably an alcoholic. The issues that he has are adult issues based on adult choices. A child can learn to pick up his shoes and so can a 40 year old man. Your husband's childhood has nothing to do with his adult choices. That is a distraction.

Please read this article by Dr. Harley: When to Call It Quits - Part 1

Thank you. I will take read the article.