Good grief...I had posted over in another forum and they kept suggestion I post over here as this form is very helpful and informative, so now here I go trying to explain my situation yet again.

I committed adultery. I had an affair with another woman whom I worked with. That affair ended 4 years ago (keep in mind Im horrible with dates so some dates/timeframes may be off a bit) My wife is now pushing for divorce as soon as possible I have managed to eek out 2 weeks from her to let me think things over and wrap my head around the idea. My wife can't move past the pain and hurt that is caused she has gone to counseling for it but no longer goes. I am in counseling. We have not gone to a coupe counseling she asked for that a few years ago and all I wanted to do was push the hurt I caused to myself under the rug and move on so I refused, now when I mention it she says "you have to be open to go to counseling
and I'm not open anymore I can't do it" She found out about the affair a year after it was over. I became completely transparent, answered every question she had and still to this day answer any question she has about the affair openly and honestly. I gave her access to my phone, emails, passwords to any and everything I had. I let her hide a gps tracking device on my car, any and everything she felt she wanted or needed. I cut all ties the the other woman immediately, she no longer works where I work. In fact I cut all ties with everybody outside of family. My daily routine is I go to work and I go home. I don't do anything else and thats how its been for 4 years. If I go anyplace we go together. I don't talk to other women anymore socially/as friends I have women I work with but I keep it cold and business like. The only woman I talk to outside of family are her friends and I just fake being social and I try to stay within earshot of my wife. I have own up to what I did. My wife did not force me to make the decision I did in any way by her actions. It was my decision to make I alone did that.

How it started:
We had our first child..yay we were excited!!! What happened seems to have happened slowly, but we assume (my wife and I have discussed this and agree to this, no professional input just our own research) but we assume my wife experience some kind of postpartum mental disorder. She said she felt that she hated me for no reason, being young and somewhat still newly weds (our first child came after 1.5 years of marriage) we didn't recognize this. At this point I felt alone and my wife felt alone, but we didn't know we felt alone. At the same time this was going on my grandma got sick, this was the first lost I have ever experienced in my life and it was painful for me, and still while all of that was going on at the same time my work downsized my department and I was left in charge of what was left of it. I had no management experience at all but was given a whole department to manage. The stress I was feeling was unbearable, I lost 30 pounds in 2 weeks. Yet still while all that was happening my work started another 1 person department that I was to work closely with. I was told that while I was doing my job plus the new managing job I now had, that I had to work closely with this woman and train her even though she was a different department. It was also at this point that my company seeks budgeting from the state and a state budget had to be prepared for the VPs by this new department and myself. She was new and really wanted to prove herself to the company and was willing to do whatever it took make them feel they hired the right person, basically what any of us would do in a new position. I felt the need to be polite and ease her stress since she was new and didn't "know the ropes" long working hours lead to long conversations which lead to getting to know each other which lead to the affair. She has since moved on, I still work for that company. She lived over an hour away from the company. So she doesn't live in my area, but its drivable, yet I have no reason to even drive in that direction for any reason. I broke all contact with her years ago. I have no idea what she is doing or where she lives now. Now don't misread this as to me putting blame on my wife for my actions...this is not the case....this is how life went down and when I chose to have an affair.

The pain of the affair has made her feel meaningless and she can't deal with the pain anymore and wants out, she knows this will not make the pain go away, but it shifts her focus to only herself and moving forward with loving herself and standing up for herself and saying "no, I don't accept this, this is not how I want to live"

Now last night I discovered by accident that she is talking to someone else in a flirty manner. I was only able to see the few messages that popped up. It seems very new and I am assuming she is "involved" with this other man. I do not think it has become physical yet, but the flirty banter has be believing it could or would develop into something. Made me sick when I discovered that, but I also felt I deserved it as well. I did not confront her about what I discovered, like I said it all seemed very new and at the beginning not too unsimilar to how my affair started. I can tell it's the beginning of an emotional affair for the moment, which I'm sure will develop in something physical.

I do not want the divorce, I just don't think there is any hope left in saving my marriage. I know there will be many question that will follow this and I'll try to answer them the best and as soon as I can. She files for divorce in 12 days.

Hi LostNBroken, welcome to Marriage Builders. We can help you save your marriage and show your wife how to get over her resentment if she is willing. But nothing will be of any effect if she is not willing and if she is having an affair. The solution to your problems is to create an affair proof, romantic relationship. When you are happy in the present, the mind doesn't go to the tragedies of the past. That is what has been lacking here all along, instead of following a plan for recovery, you all have wasted a lot of time going off to counseling. But we can help with you that.

Would your wife be willing to try a program where the objective is to create a romantic, passionate marriage? Everything depends on that question.

And I would most certainly confront and run off this OM. You should address him yourself and tell him to hit the road. Is he married?

She seems bent on divorce I'm not sure I could talk her into trying anything. This other man she works with and sees daily, don't think I can run him off and Im not a scary enough person to confront him and make him back off

That is where I would start. Gather evidence of the affair and expose it. Exposure is the most effective way to end an affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure can be ruinous. Because you really have no chance at all unless you end this affair.

Is the OM married? What do you know about him?

It's very odd that she would wait 4 years after your affair to ask for a divorce [unheard of] and I attribute that to her affair. Women don't walk away like this unless they have something else lined up. I think she is leaving you for her affair but wants to blame it on your affair 4 years ago.

We can save your marriage if you can run this guy off and get her to leave that job. Please read the thread that is linked in my signature.

I'm glad to see you over here at Marriagebuilders, LostNBroken, but I'm so sorry for the reasons I invited you to come here.

As Melody said, you need to know what is going on so you can make the right plan.

To gather evidence as to whether she is having an affair you could start by hiding a voice activated recorder (VAR) in her car, and possibly a GPS if you don't already share a family locator app on your phones.

If you can get hold of her phone for a bit you can install a monitoring software on it. I used Teensafe which was really easy to install and it monitored the texting apps as well. If you have the same type of phone she has, you can practice by installing it on yours first so you can do it quickly on hers. Teensafe's help desk will help walk you through the installation the first time if needed. If she uses a company phone that is locked down, hopefully the VAR and GPS will give you the evidence you need. Otherwise you could hire a PI to follow her at lunchtime for a day or two and will likely find some evidence that way.

At first when I was advised to do these types of actions I was a bit shocked, but then realized that the person I was needing to monitor was responsible for me having to take these steps to understand the truth behind the pain he was imposing on me, so I was able to get over my shock and move forward with these steps to start solving my problem.

Edited to add: Do you share a family computer or iPad that you could place monitoring software on? Does she use any devices at home other than her company phone?

Once you get the evidence, you'll be surprised at the papa griz that will come out in you so you can run the POSOM off to protect your children. Don't lose sight of the fact that sometimes men target women for their young daughters (or sons). Besides, if the affair does not stop and they get together, as I mentioned to you before, your children will be subjected to an unstable home. Affairage marriages generally tend to have a lot of fighting and fall apart within 2 years.

Even if your marriage is not saved, your children will likely be better off if your wife eventually meets someone other than this affair guy.

But first get the evidence you need so your confrontation can be effective.

Ugh...I stunk it up bad last night... I'll try to explain the best that I can
Yesterday was an angry day for me, I was just angry all day. I was angry at my wife for this other man, but honestly I think I was really just angry at the situation I caused in my marriage and putting the energy into being angry at her for the other man was an easy target. For some reference a little background to help with the timeframe for last night. I teach a night class at a local college, which means I get home late on Mondays and Wednesday like 8-8:30 late depending on what students keep me late to ask questions. This is one of the rare things my wife supports she too use to teach night classes at the same college until she got her new job last November and the commute and class times just didn't work out anymore. But this is what we have been doing to help mange debt. Any way..My parents are left for vacation to go see my brother yesterday, they live on a farm with livestock, when they do this I take care of the livestock while they are away. So anyway I cut class short to allow enough time to take care of my parents place and still be able to get home before or as the kids are going to bed.

I took a few moments in my parents house to just decompress and talk myself out of not confronting my wife about this other man and forcing her to admit it and actually Sunnytimes helped convince me that was the right thing to do. After reflecting for a moment I just thought it would be best to not talk about the divorce at all when I got home, in a just need a break and not beat this around every day and night, and since I would be getting home about 8:30, my wife and I would have about 1.5 hours before we normally go to sleep ourselves. Basically I wanted a moment to catch my breath and assume my wife probably needs that same and if she was going to try and talk about the divorce I was just going to tell her not tonight, it has been an emotional exhausting past 3 days, and we both could most likely just use a moment. I was going to suggest we turn on the TV and and just tune out the world for a bit before we went to sleep. That was my intent...thats not what happened.

I got home and my wife was preparing the kids for bed our son was ready, just needed teeth brushed our daughter had bathed and was needing her hair dried and brushed.I walked in said my hellos proceeded upstairs to our bedroom to change out of stinky barn clothes and come help finish getting the kids to bed. Our son followed me upstairs, not unusual always enjoy company, but what he said next flipped my switch. His words "dad, why aren't you going to move with us" I asked him who told him that and he said mom, now it should be noted that my wife and I haven't mentioned anything to the kids yet, yes we discuss things in the house and I know they are smart enough to pick up on things and know that we aren't exactly happy right now. But man did that just hit me in the stomach, and push an already angry day to explosion. I went straight to my wife and confronted her about that and told her that was low for even her, to tell the kids that without discussing it with me first, and us sitting down as a family. She insisted that she didn't say that and that she actually said "kids we need to start decluttering and going through our stuff so we can move" which I replied his exact words back to her and ask how he could even come to that conclusion on his own if your telling me you didn't say that. She said our son asked if I would move with them too, that how he is, Im sure he was asking "will cat 1 move with us" "will cat 2 move with us" "will dad move with us" but she said our son did ask if I would move with them and her reply was dad will have to move too.

After the kids got in bed my wife and went to the living room and I was just thinking maybe she's right that how it all happened and I over reacted, and trying to convince myself to not say any more that I would regret based on the state of mind I was in. I turned on the tv and my wife started defending her actions again and I was trying to convey I'm not in the right mind for discussions. She moved on the that fact that she call the cell phone company to see about options and that she has a buyer lined up for house all we have to do is say we are ready to sell and they will buy it as is, without needing to go through a Realtor (should be said I/we know these people, they do have plenty of money and Im sure they would be buying our house to use a rental, so I've no doubt it would be a smooth easy fair process) It was at this moment I asked her what her hurry is with everything why is she pushing so hard and fast (as im saying this im also telling myself not to spill the beans about the other man) of all things why is she all of the sudden so rushed to get a new cell phone? She gave me some excuse as to her phone being old and not working properly and she needs a new one and since we will splitting everything anyway she might as go ahead and get her a different plan. I replied with how rushed and forceful she is to get everything done and that I feel something has change, something seems to have her distracted and that I feel I know when something is like that is happening because I have been there, I have been the liar and hider of things and that's just how I feel she is acting all of the sudden. She replied with she isn't hiding anything and she has been open and honest with we this whole time. I told her I believe that and that Im not accusing her of anything but from my view that is how it looks.

She asked me "what do you want, just tell me what you want" which has been her go to phrase lately, now what I think she is really asking is "what do I want and how can we proceed with the divorce and when we do we move out, how do we move out, where do each of us live, how do we divide things up, what projects need completed on the house before we sell, etc." which I have not given into all I keep saying is what I really want and that is "to try and fix our marriage, whether we succeed in it or not, but to try and fix our marriage" and I get her normal reply back which is "I can't, I can't do it anymore, Im not there anymore and I just can't do it" and this is the moment that changed the night...I said "there is a difference between can't and won't, you can't put frozen food in the oven, turn the oven on and expect the over to keep the food frozen, that is a can't, what you are saying is that you won't try to fix our marriage, its not that you can't its that you won't" when her jaw dropped I knew at that moment I said the wrong thing, which lead the conversation back into how many times she tried and asked me to seek help and I wouldn't its not that she won't she said that she just can't anymore and I apologized, for it taking this long for me to get to this point, and that it took her to seek a divorce to get me here, but Im here. And she "yes you are at the point now, but now it has to be on your time, my time when I wanted wasn't the correct time, or what I wanted wasn't correct, or wasn't the correct moment, but now that it's on your time, I'm suppose to say "ok" and accept that." it was at this moment she went and took her shower and and proceed with her routine for bed.

I actually sat there for a few moments to collect myself and beat myself up over saying that and knowing my whole intention for the night was to avoid talking because I knew I wasn't in the correct mindset. After that I went and talked to my daughter in bed, who is 9 fyi, I told her im not sure how much she has heard tonight but I wanted to reaffirm her that I love her and I want to be with her everyday, and nothing is her fault. She has nothing to be afraid of and she has nothing to worry about, because she is a worry wort, and I let her know she is my happiness. Our conversation turned to board games some how, and she seemed genuinely giggly and smiles and I was keeping her up past her bed time. So I tucked her in and said good night.

I went back to the living room to make my way to bed myself, when I saw my wife head in hand sitting on the couch...noticeably upset. It took several minutes for her to speak I'm sure there is a term or definition as to what she was doing/feeling, I don't know what it is, so I'll try to explain that best I can. It was the word "won't" that hurt her she said she doesn't know how or why it took me saying but that I figured out what to say. And she said she will do whatever I want, whatever counseling or resources I want to whatever it is I want she will do, I just need to provide her a list and she will do it, she will just push it all back under the rug and proceed with life as it has been and what ever I want she will do. She mentioned something about being the proverbs 24 wife, but I think she meant proverbs 31, I'll look those up later today but im sure thats what she meant to say. She said just when she was starting to find herself and be happy with who she was and that it must of just been a moment of midlife crisis. And again she just kept repeating "what do you want, I'll do it, just tell me what to do next, your right the kids deserve a mother who fixes her marriage, I'll just play the role and go and talk or do whatever it is you want" "make the appointments and I'll go, schedule whatever it is you want and I'll do it" Now you would think this is exactly what I wanted to hear, but no she was upset I could see that, and this was broken broken woman I was sitting next to hearing her say that did not bring joy, happiness or excitement to me not even in a slightest way. There were a lot of long silence during this as well, and I didn't want to go to bed knowing how upset she was and just leaving her on the couch alone. So I just sat there with her. After her just repeating to me "what do you want I'll do it, just tell me what to do next, what kind of wife do you want and ill do it, what kind of mother do you want me to be and I'll do" I finally said thats not what I want. She asked for whatever websites I have been reading and she will read them and I told her no. She replied with "your right I'm open ill go and do whatever it is you want me to do just tell me" and the best analogy I could come up with at that moment was "I feel like you are just being a hostage to me now, and that if told you to stand up and do 25 jumping jacks right now you would" She replied "yes I would if thats what you wanted" and again I told her no im not going to let her give in like that, its not healthy. I found myself trying to be encouraging to her to stand up for herself and that she is stronger than this, but at the same time I know im the root of all this pain she has. I offered to call one of her fiends who "knows" the situation just to talk to her, because I could tell she needed the support, she needed someone stating in her corner telling her to not give up on herself and that she can do whatever she decides, but that her decisions are hers and nobody else. I told her I know this friend even though it's 11:30 at night she will answer and talk to you or come rushing over without hesitation. I offered this because I felt it would be better to hear support from her friend at this moment, than 1. a man and 2. the man who is the cause of her pain. She refused do it, I couldn't call this friend from my phone or I would have anyway, because I don't have her number. Like I said a lot of long pauses and silence throughout this. She eventually stood up and said she needed to go laundry (which is in the basement, fyi) I have learned over the 11 years of marriage that this means she wants to be alone. I asked her if she wanted a hug, because it seemed to be to have turned into a traumatic night. Her reply was "yes, thats what a wife is suppose to want" I said no, that I'm not going to force her to do something she doesn't want, if she wants a hug I'll give her a hug, if she doesn't then I won't. She said a perfect wife always hugs her husband. Again I said no not if she doesn't want it and I could tell she didn't want it. She walked away and I went to bed.

This morning since I am taking care of my parents place meant that I woke up before everybody else, to leave for the day. I didn't wake her or talk to her I just let her be. She has to work late today, she will have to in to work normal 8-4 then she will have to return back to work at 9pm tonight and then she will get off work at 3-4pm Friday. She mentioned early about stay at her parents house between 4pm and 9pm today to try and sleep for a few hours, since they live about 20m minutes closer to where she works, I don't know if that will still be the case tonight.

I'm sure there are many typos throughout this...sorry I'll try to reply to your response next/below

No this other man is not married, and I haven't come across anything that has lead me to believe he has ever been married either. I know his phone# but don't know where he lives. Currently that is all I know. I'll read through the link. Thank you

I will have to look into VAR but I'm afraid they are using only messaging apps and face to face to communicate at the moment. I don't see his phone# if the call logs of our phone bill going back to January.

I will have to look into some of the monitoring software more. She has a Samsung phone I have an iPhone, both are our personal phones, but her company allows employees of a certain "rank" to have their work email on their personal phones as long as the company is allowed to install their antivirus software on it. Which she has. As far as lunch goes, her company requires all employees to eat at the cafeteria and they get a 30 minute lunch, only special luncheons on the companies behalf in the community would an employee get to leave, and that employees department must have a connection with event taking place and the employee(s) going have to meet that certain "rank" every employee is assigned an hierarchy number based on job position, education, and experience, with the CEO being the highest and everybody else falls under that. She explained to me when she started this job, to be honest I didn't understand it complete so its hard for me to explain.

We do have a computer and an iPad, but she doesn't use either of them. She will online shop on the computer and input grades from the online course she is teaching. She only uses the iPad to listen to music while she is working on something around the house. I've never seen her use it for any other means than that. She lives off her phone.

LostNbroken, please condense that post down to about 3 short paragraphs. That is too much information and people can’t help you when you make long posts like that. It is way, way overkill and no one has the time to read such overly long posts. Thanks.

Also, we don’t need to know the daily blow by blow, we just need to know your response to our posts and what action steps you are taking. That long post seems like blogging and that is unneccessary. One of the reasons this forum produces results is because we focus on actions, not feelings..

Tell her you want a fulfilling marriage of mutual extraordinary care, where both of your emotional needs are met, and that you have found a plan that offers it. That you don't want her to have to sacrifice herself in the marriage.

Tell her that self sacrifices will not make either of you happy. That you have found a plan of mutual extraordinary care, where you both can be happy in the marriage and with each other.

When Melody says it's OK, bring her here. We may first need to flush out the truth about whether she is having an affair before she learns of this forum.

Yes, your marriage is broken right now. But it doesn't have to stay that way. Offer her a great marriage, one that's great for both of you. As I mentioned to you in another place, learning what lovebusters are and avoiding them lead to the most amazing marriage ever. When lovebusters stop, you are more able to meet each other's emotional needs. When you both avoid lovebusters and meet each other's needs, your marriage will be everything you dreamed it could be.

This is concerning. Are her parents home? Would you be able to connect with them with some conversation while mentioning her being there so they can confirm?

I actually think you did great!

You were able to bring the discussion around to her staying in the marriage without revealing your concerns about a possible affair on her part. This may keep her in the home longer so you can pursue her back by meeting her emotional needs without committing love busters. Better yet if she'll agree to go on some dates.

Now, don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by offering to let her keep walking out the door.

Stay on task to find out if she is in an affair, meanwhile.

Sorry I will do that from now on, I just try to head off any questions anybody may have but this is the real take away in my post:

She said she will do whatever I want, whatever counseling or resources I want to whatever it is I want she will do, I just need to provide her a list and she will do it, she will just push it all back under the rug and proceed with life as it has been the status quo and what ever I want she will do. She mentioned something about being the proverbs 31 wife. She said just when she was starting to find herself and be happy with who she was and that it must of just been a moment of midlife crisis. She will just play the role of "happy wife" and ignore her feelings. Basically just going back and pretending she is happy.

I truly know that is not what she wants. She is just being overcompensating and doing whatever I want without really engaging or committing herself to the process.

Yet, she will be sleeping at her parents home for a 6 hour window, according to her. So, she still has opportunity, if not during lunch time.

Some of those apps support calls as well, though, such as whatsapp or facebook. You have nothing to lose by trying the VAR.

This is concerning. Are her parents home? Would you be able to connect with them with some conversation while mentioning her being there so they can confirm?


Honestly I think I can do better than that. How about I take the kids over to her parents house so that they can see their mom for a few minutes since they won't get to see her until tomorrow evening. Unannounced of coursed.

What she said is sarcastic and she doesn't mean it. She is completely fogged out anyway. The first thing you need to do is spy on her and find out what she is doing. I assure you the affair is in full swing. We can't move forward until you get the intel. Don't accuse and don't ASK. Just quietly start spying on her. You can get spyware on her phone, GPS on her car and a voice activated recorder in her car under the drivers seat among other things. But you need to get this done.

Nothing you do towards recovery will be of effect until you kill off this affair. An affair is an addiction just like alcohol addiction. The first step in recovery is putting down the drink. Once you kill the affair [via exposure] we can help you with recovery steps. But first things first.

Her plan is to quietly get divorced so she can be with the OM. "LostNBroken and I are getting divorced and in the meantime, I met this new man!!" That is the plan in place. The reason she is saying she will do these things is so she can say "I was willing and tried everything, nothing worked." <----that is typically why a wayward spouse will go to "counseling" with her spouse.

While you set up some spy methods, I would do a back ground check on the OM. Find his facebook page and scope it out. If you can see his contacts, copy them all for safekeeping. Find his wife, if any and get her contact info.