New user here, I love the website. I believe marriages are worth saving and I appreciate the work you guys do to help strangers in need. Before I begin, let me say that I'm throwing this up here as a last ditch effort - a hail mary if you will. I fully admit I haven't read enough of this website yet because all of this is so fresh in my life, but I intend to in the coming days and weeks. I wanted to get this out there ASAP. Sorry for being overly wordy, but I felt it was all important.

Background info: I'm 36, my wife is 35. No kids. Together 13 years, married for 7. Every year before marriage was fantastic. The couple years after marriage were good too. The combined 8 or so best years of my life. Then it fell apart.

In 2014, she started playing an online game obsessively. It really put a wedge between our marriage. I knew she had met "friends" in the game and it turns out that one of them ended up being a male who pursued her. You can see where this is going. September of 2014 we had a big fight about this game and her relationships formed in the game and she told me she wanted a divorce. She was mean and cold to me, moved out a month later and got her own apartment, and we didn't speak for about 6 months. She told me at the time that she "needed space" and that we both needed to work on ourselves, but reconciliation down the road was a possibility. About 9 or 10 months later in mid-late 2015, we started talking again. Slowly but surely we'd hang out a little, go on dates, and things started getting better again. In January of 2016 she moved back in. I flat out asked her at the time, "Were there any other men while we were separated? Did you have sex with anyone else?" She said no to both questions. At the time I was naiive and believed her. I thought she was addicted to the game and just wanted to be away from me to play it as much as possible.

Apart from a rather pathetic sex life, life was good for the next year and a half. Fast forward to April of 2017. She went out of town on vacation with her sister and I snooped through all of her stuff. I don't even know why I did, but something deep down still just didn't sit right. I ended up finding a long letter written to him, the guy who she had met in the game who was a man with a wife and kids in his mid 40s, which was basically a combination love / letting go letter. In addition there was an erotic piece of "fan fiction" that she had written where she was playing out a fantasy with him. Obviously I was crushed. I texted her and told her that when she gets home from vacation we need to have a serious talk. She fessed to having had an affair with him, had sex with him multiple times on 3 different occasions (he was from a different city and he would either fly here to her apartment or they would both fly out to a different city and meet there) and she told me it ended because they both realized that it was just a fantasy relationship that could never have actually worked. I told her at the time that I still wanted to be married to her, I still loved her, and I wanted to work on our marriage and hopefully come out of this as better people. I truly forgave her and DID move on from it in my heart. I also fully acknowledge that while I'm a good guy, I was at least partly to blame for not meeting her emotional needs. She never told me I wasn't, and I'm a dumb guy who always thought my wife would be willing to speak up if something was wrong so I could fix it. I'm so naiive.

Fast forward again to late 2018. I started being very suspicious of her. She would be out late for "work gatherings" or would go to a movie with a "female coworker" who I had never met. I was once again probably too involved in my own hobbies (fishing, friends) that I neglected her too much. With that said, I WAS doing a much better job than before. I would always leave little loving notes for her, pack her lunches for work, compliment her, tell her how much I love her, plan activities to do together, give gifts that were activities like shows/theater that we could do together rather than just objects. We went on vacation 3 times in 2018 and it was always good. I'm not perfect, but I WAS doing better. Our sex life was still pathetic, but better. Ever since her first affair she said that sex was painful and she had no drive at all. She has flat out stated that she doesn't care about sex at all. She was at least giving me some pity sex about once or twice per month. But still, I started questioning her every move. Probably justifiably so, but she maintained that she was being honest with me and was indeed where she said she was. On a few occasions I did find out she was lying to me. She bought a new convertible in around Sept/Oct of 2018 and didn't tell me she had been driving an hour to the dealership and would make up lies instead. She said she thought I would freak out if she told me the truth. I kept telling her that if the truth isn't something actually bad, that she has nothing to worry about and that I was always going to make up something worse in my mind. This continued from late 2018 until about 3 weeks ago. I once again started snooping through her stuff. I would regularly check her purse for new things. One day, June 6th I believe, I found a breakup / love poem of sorts in her purse. I also found a hand written note from her that was obviously intended for another guy. It read something to the effect of, "I'm sorry our friendship has caused you problems. That was never my intent. I do really really REALLY miss you". I questioned her the next day wanting to hear her story. She claims that she had become good friends with one of her male coworkers, another married man with a wife and 2 kids, and he was one of the few people she could actually talk to in the office. Her story at the time was that his wife had become suspicious of their "friendship" because he had admitted to his wife that he was growing feelings for my wife, and they had to stop being friends because of it. She claims that he had written the love / breakup poem to her and she was writing the short "miss you" letter to him as a way of coping with her loss of a friend, but wasn't actually going to give it to him. She swore up and down they were just friends. I wanted to believe her story and was willing to move on. I just didn't want to rock the boat, and it did appear that whatever was between them was indeed ended. I wanted to be blissfully ignorant.

About a week later though, I went snooping again. I popped the trunk of her spare car and found a box of used emergency contraceptive along with a receipt (for 3 total boxes) dated from October 2018, paid in cash. I also found nylon stockings, a skimpy miniskirt, and a skimpy police costume that sure looked like it would be worn in the bedroom. I freaked out, sent her a text that she was a cheating whore, told her to pack her stuff and get out of my house because I deserve so much better. She told me the contraceptive was for us (she was not on actual birth control and I had been using condoms - but we did stop using condoms around November of 2018 and I was pulling out instead) and she paid cash for it and hid it from me because she didn't want to discuss that she wasn't ready to have an "accidental" kid with me, even though we HAD discussed that possibility and both said we would be happy if that did happen. She also said the outfits were just "halloween costumes" and the nylon leggings were to wear "under her pants in her office because she gets cold". Right. I'm no longer as naiive as I once was and I know this is likely all [censored]. She didn't put up much of a fight other than protecting her image though, and told me that she'd pack her stuff and start looking for a new place. I told her I was going to get to the bottom of it and find the truth, even if it involved messaging the other man and his wife. She freaked out and told me that I was a "vindictive [censored]" for involving them and trying to "ruin their marriage too". She then confessed that she had phone sex with him semi recently in April, but that was the extent of it. And that's why they stopped being friends to not ruin their relationships. Over the next couple days we continued talking. I apologized for calling her names, and I do mean that because no matter what she's done to me I don't want to be that kind of guy, and she apologized for her lies and deceit. With a little more prodding, she eventually admitted she had sex with him on two separate occasions in March and April of this year. I'm still of the impression that it was much more than that, and likely lasted back into 2018 but she doesn't want to admit it. I'll probably never know for sure.

Over the course of the past week, she has been slowly moving her stuff out to a friends house. She's set on moving on. Every time I see another box of her stuff gone though, I completely break down. As hard as it is to know what she's done to me, and as much as I probably SHOULDN'T want her back, I still love her with every fiber of my being. This past week has been either the worst or second worst week of my life. Even just having her in the house makes me feel better right now. I still enjoy her company so much. It's the craziest thing that we've always gotten along so well and we haven't ever been the type of couple to argue or bicker or be mean to each other. She swears that she hasn't even spoken with this other man for a month or a month and a half and that she has no feelings for him at all. Given the "breakup notes" between them, I do actually believe that she isn't having any contact with this other man any more. She claims she doesn't even know why she had the affair and can't put it into words, but that "I wouldn't understand". She has apologized for hurting me and says she regrets the decisions she has made for the most recent affair and for the entire past 5 years and wishes she had it to all do over again, but also says that there's no possible way she sees us being able to reconcile our problems. She says she knows I would never trust her, understandably so, and that it would just cause resentment down the road again and we'd be right back where we're at now in a matter of time. She's possibly right there too. She says she still loves me, but "obviously not as much as she once did or she wouldn't have had the affair". The past 2 days have actually been rather cathartic speaking with her. We had probably the most in depth and meaningful 4 hour conversation that we've had in years last night. Lots of tears were shed. At the end of the night, I actually laid next to her in bed holding her and we both cried for about 15 minutes without saying anything and we gave each other a kiss good night. Bottom line, we're actually on friendly speaking terms right now, but she's dead set on being done. I told her that I want her to stay, I want to work through this, that I want to honor my wedding vows, and that I'm committed to working on this and having a lifetime of happy marriage where both of our needs are met. I also don't want to lose our dog, her family (I'm closer with her family than my own), or anything else. She says she just knows it can't work, takes full blame for the downfall of our marriage, and says she needs to be unmarried to work on herself. She says she doesn't know if she can change her ways, never thought that this would be the type of person who she would be, and feels guilty and can't live with it any more. She's flat out told me that it's over. We did agree that neither of us would put our lives on hold but maybe, who knows, sometime in the future 3, 4, 5 or even 10 years down the road, if we were both single and at a good place in life, reconnecting wouldn't be out of the question. As hopefully as that sounds, the thought of her having a new boyfriend makes my stomach turn.

So the bottom line: Is there ANY hope at all? Is there ANYTHING I can do in the next 2 or maybe 3 weeks while she's moving out, since we're at least on good friendly terms, to salvage this? This is so ****ed up. Isn't the cheating spouse supposed to be the one begging for it to work? I'm lost, hopeless, and while I know I'm not actually suicidal, I feel no desire to continue living right now. I can't eat or sleep. I still love her.

Hello Pocketknife, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am very sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. Please make a post that is shorter and more concise so you will get more readers. Your post is too long.

I am going to offer you a new perspective and I am hopeful you will think it over. I think the best thing that could happen is that you end this marriage. Your wife is very likely a serial cheater who is committed to this way of life. I suspect there have been many more affairs that you don't even know about. She is very secretive, I doubt she is willing to change her approach to marriage. It's not that she just has poor boundaries [the cause of 98% of affairs] but that she is out actively looking for action. In order to save this, she would have to commit to radical change in her approach to marriage. I seriously doubt she would do that becasue she doesn't care about your marriage.

That being said, you might be able to persuade her to stay THIS TIME, [doubtful] but it won't be long before she hooks up with a new prospect and you are back in this bad place again. Marriage Builders is designed to help people who fall into the 98% category, it is not designed to help marriage where one spouse is out actively looking for action. I realize it makes you feel better to blame yourself ["unmet needs"] but I assure you that meeting her needs 1000% would not EVER EVER overcome a spouse who is out actively pursuing action.

I am sorry to be a wet blanket, but serial cheaters are very, very hard to change and they have to be fully committed to that change. Otherwise, you are looking at your future.

You have a choice before you, short term pain with long term gain or short term pain and long term pain. If you left the marriage now, it would hurt for a short time, but you would have a chance at happiness in the future. Staying with her provides you no such chance.

I would also suggest you expose her affair to the married man's wife.

Thank you for your bluntness. It's very possible that this is exactly what I need to hear to help me heal and move on. Does life get better? I can't imagine finding someone that I love more, enjoy the company of more, and is more perfect for me in every way possible with the obvious and glaring exceptions.


I know you're right. Her actions speak very clearly. I also know that everyone says this, but she is the complete polar opposite of the type of person I ever would have expected to be this way. She's a small, timid, extremely introverted book worm. She doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, doesn't like parties, hates bars, clubs, dancing, you name it. She's into nerdy stuff like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. She doesn't go out seeking male attention, but male attention seeks her and she seems unable to turn it away. You are 100% correct that she has inappropriate boundaries with men, and I've told her as much within the past year. Is anyone capable of being a serial cheater? How the heck could I possibly have known?



I know this website and the users here are strong advocates of exposure. That said, do you think it's really in my best interest at this time? My wife and I are, if nothing else, on good terms right now. She has agreed to be extremely fair with the divorce, keeping all lawyers out of it. She has told me she feels guilty for what she's done and wants to move on peacefully. We've always kept our finances separate and we have no children, so it should be as painless as divorces get from that standpoint. The house is the only asset we will need to divide, and I think we can do that amicably. I feel like IF the marriage is already over, exposing the affair to his wife and my wife getting wind of it could only enrage her and cause me additional misery via divorce proceedings. In due time, I agree with you, but I'd rather wait until my affairs are settled. Or am I looking at this wrong?

I promise you won't feel this way once you are emotionally detached from her. You will have a healthier view of your damaged relationship and wonder why it took you so long. Can you imagine having those same strong feelings for a woman who has good boundaries around men in an emotionally integrated, healthy relationship ? I have seen some remarkable life transformations on this forum over the years. Many men have left such toxic relationships and remarried and are very, very happy today. Go read the axslinger thread over in Other Topics forum.


The definition of a serial cheater is someone who has multiple affairs. That describes your wife. Most serial cheaters we have seen over the years aren't necessarily the stereotypical drinking, drugging, bar scene types. I also find it very hard to believe your wife is not seeking male attention. I think she has always kept that door wide open. Most men know when the shop is open for business. Women who don't want that kind of attention usually don't get it.



I agree with your strategy. I would wait until everything is settled and expose her affair. I would make sure your families and friends know what has happened too. That is in her best interest too.

Yes. Being married to a serial cheater who is hiding a secret second life and gaslighting you about it is VERY STRESSFUL. It robs you of your joy and ends up affecting every aspect of your life. Once you emotionally detach from your WW, you will start to experience relief and, if you are like me, realize you are much much happier divorced than married to a serial cheater.


The only things you really need to know about a serial cheater is that they are not happy only getting their ENs (emotional needs) met in marriage - they want to get them met outside of marriage also. And they don't care who they have to hurt in order to get those ENs met (children, spouses, families, etc). And the other thing to know about serial cheaters is that they cannot let go of their SSL - secret second life. This sounds like your WW, doesn't it?



I just have to add here, I doubt she feels "guilty". Most likely she is hoping the OM will continue their relationship once he learns that she is leaving her marriage or something like that. I doubt she is finished with him, so I certainly hope you expose to this poor woman once your divorce is final.

Oftentimes BSs will avoid exposing in hopes of saving the marriage - that only backfires. It NEVER works. Exposure is therapy and without it, the wayward just stays sick. I am hopeful that you are being honest about your intentions on holding off until your divorce is settled, but just in case you aren't...

So your WW has had at least 2 affairs with 2 different married men. Is that correct? Then when you expose you need to expose to both BWs.

I just want to thank you again for your responses. My mind is swimming with such crazy thoughts and I don't even feel like a normal person right now. I am typically a very happy, energetic person with a zeal for life. Right now I don't find joy in anything and I have a very nihilistic view of life in general. Like, what is the meaning of it all? There IS something reassuring about objective people such as yourself looking at my situation and telling me that I'll be happier in the long run though. So again, thanks.

Thank you for this. I NEED to hear this right now.



Oh most definitely, it does. I guess I was really just asking - How could I POSSIBLY have known ahead of time? On top of her not being the type I'd expect to cheat (I wouldn't have expected SUCH an introverted person to cheat) we dated 5 years prior to me proposing and everything was so fantastic. It took 8+ years for this to show. She was the best person I had ever met. She even used to give other women grief for their cheating ways. If we were watching a TV show or a movie and a woman cheated, she would be visibly upset by it. And yet, that's who she turned into? How can you spot a serial cheater when they show no symptoms for 8 years? How could I possibly trust someone again in the future knowing that they might have deep dark demons in their soul just waiting to escape given the right circumstances? And why the heck would someone like that even WANT to get married in the first place if they need to have their emotional needs met by multiple people? Surely there are plenty of people who are into open relationships where she would fit in just fine with no judgement or repercussions. I.... just don't get it.



I'm sure you're correct about all of this. I've had my blinders on and I wanted to be ignorant, but I'm sure you're right. She told me she felt guilty, but I didn't sense the utmost sincerity when she said it. I've been absolutely bawling my eyes out more than I even thought was possible, but she's remarkably stoic compared to me about it all. She says she has her emotions "shut down" right now so she can concentrate on finding a place to move, moving, the stress of work, etc, but it's more likely that she just doesn't give a [censored] about how badly she's hurt me, and it's very possible that's because she still has this OM on the side.

She's also "stayed at a hotel" twice in the past 2 weeks in order to "clear her mind, actually be able to sleep, and be away from the stress of it all." She swears she's not with the OM, but that's probably crap too. I guess I'll never know. The problem now is that I need to train myself to not CARE if she's telling the truth and that's still extremely difficult.

I will admit that I was on the fence about telling the OM's wife, but I'm beginning to see the importance. She has a right to know, and not only that, but it might actually help save THEIR marriage too. Surely she knows something is going on and has been feeling just as crazy as I have been. As much of a sleazebag as the OM is, they do still have two small innocent children together which is heartbreaking itself. I had initially planned on confronting the OM himself and telling him I wanted full details of their relationship for my own sanity, and that if he told me then I would refrain from telling his wife, but I'm going to skip that plan and go directly to the wife as soon as my divorce is settled.

Thanks again for your responses, you have no idea how much it means to people who are really going through hell and don't know where to turn for answers.

Let me ask you a moral question regarding the first man she had an affair with. I don't fully know his current situation and I hadn't looked at his facebook page since maybe 2015 when I was really snooping around trying to figure out what was going on, but it now appears that as of April 2018 this other man has married a new woman. Remember, he cheated on his wife at the time with my wife back in 2014 & 2015. Would it be prudent to reach out to her and let her know that she married a cheater and give her details, or do I let bygones be bygones and not inflict pain upon this poor unsuspecting woman? I'd definitely be leaning towards not saying anything and simply wishing her the best. Maybe he's done some soul searching and managed to change. Part of me would sure love inflicting any amount of pain on that guy that I could though... but I'd only do it if you thought it was best for HER.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. It is good to know not only good things about your spouse, but also the bad stuff. If he changed, it is up to him to be transparent and prove that. If he hasn't changed, she can make an informed decision about how to protect herself and/or her marriage.

Better for her to know now and perhaps change how you deal with certain behaviour now than finding out when she is pregnant with her second child that he has bad boundaries with women.

Don't blame yourself for not knowing. How could you possibly know? Serial cheater are fortunately fairly rare. This behaviour is usually copied from the same sex parent but I am sure her mother never took you aside and explained what risks you were taking :-(

But to reassure you, you are now sufficiently sensitised that you will see the tiny clues well ahead of time. Past behaviour is the best indicator. Not what a person says but what they have done. I'm betting your WW had multiple partners prior to settling down with you.


Serial cheaters do not want to be serial cheaters. It is an addiction. They get a high from the chase and capture. They keep hoping that the right relationship will change them which it does . . for a while.

I can tell you right now she is hooking up with the OM at the hotel. Have you ever just popped in to see? I would get evidence of the affair, if you don't have it already, and prepare to expose when the time is right. Gather up all of his contact information so you will be prepared.

I was addressing the part of your post where you referred to your wife as introverted and into Harry Potter, etc - those types of things don't matter when it comes to being able to tell if someone is a serial cheater.

My ex was like your WW, very vocal against cheating, etc, and the marriage was pretty good until many years in. Some signs that you can look for, not only for a cheater, but for someone who even without cheating will make a marriage miserable are lack of POJA - which means not doing anything without your spouse's enthusiastic agreement. Your WW's game playing is a clear violation of POJA. The other is lack of PORH, a lack of radical honesty. With radical honesty, affairs wouldn't happen.

In the future you can discuss and practice these concepts with a partner, in addition to seeing what their attitudes towards opposite sex boundaries are and finding out if they cheated in previous relationships/how previous relationships ended.


Really you cannot believe a single word that comes out of her mouth and you cannot gauge her sincerity or honesty by the way "she seems". The reason I am pointing this out is because she could come to you next week (if the OM dumps her) crying and begging for forgiveness and do a complete 180 from the way she is "acting" now. It really means nothing.

What you would want from a serial cheater is (1) complete radical lifestyle change, an agreement to adherence to Extraordinary Precautions - no opposite sex friendships, no free time apart from each other, no more chatting online, no social media, no online gaming and (2) complete transparency, giving you all passwords to everything etc., being open and honest about all aspects of her life. (this is why it is SO hard to recover with a serial cheater! Even if they agree to all of these things, they usually backslide over time)

This is what you need to keep in mind - it is very possible she will come to you and want you to keep meeting her ENs on the side. Serial cheaters LOVE to cake-eat. Be prepared for it.

I wouldn't know where she is or I would have stopped by to find out at some point by now. She had a family gathering yesterday (which I was invited to about a month ago, so I know that part was legit) but after that she texted me and told me she wasn't coming home for the evening. She's always been insanely protective of her devices, always having lock codes and always keeping her phone at her side at all times. I wouldn't have ever had the opportunity or means to get spyware on her phone. I'm also pretty clueless about that sort of stuff. I probably could have gotten a GPS tracker of sorts and installed it in her car, but I wouldn't even know where to start with something like that. It was something I had considered for a little while, but I don't know what good it does me at this point. I feel like tracking her whereabouts now for the next month while she's moving out would only continue to cause me anguish.

She has already plainly admitted to me that she has had sex with him on 2 separate occasions after they were done with work in recent months as well as phone sex. I highly suspect that this has actually been going on much longer and that she's only telling me 10% of the truth, but at this point why would I even really care? I know she cheated. Does it matter if it was 2 times or 10? 20? I'll never know the full truth anyway.

I do know the OM's name, place of work, his wife's name, his facebook account, and even his physical address. I don't have his email or phone number, but I don't know why I'd need them anyway. I plan on going directly to his wife when my affairs are in order and the divorce is settled. Not sure why I need to contact him at all.

This begs the question - ARE serial cheaters actually fairly rare? Are there statistics out there regarding this sort of thing? I feel like I'm never going to trust anyone ever again. I've truly lost faith in humanity right now. If the best person I knew, the person who loved me more than anyone else in my life could do this to me, how could I possibly learn to trust strangers again? I know so many people who have either cheated or been cheated on. It seems like such a common occurrence. How do I find someone like myself who is actually capable of practicing monogamy and being happy doing it? Someone who really just wants to make their significant other happy and be made happy in return?


This might be something that doesn't come up very often, but my wife is adopted. She is Korean and was adopted when she was just a baby. Her parents are both white. Would this change your opinion on where this behavior could have come from? I obviously don't know her mother's past, but I'd have an incredibly difficult time thinking that her mother was this way. She's always been a very conservative catholic family oriented woman with a great upbringing and a great family and strong family values and doesn't seem at ALL to be the type who would be a cheater. Then again, I did think that about my wife too. I'm just saying that I'd be absolutely floored if this was a learned behavior from her mom.

Prior to marriage, her parents did sit me down very briefly to both give their support for our getting married, but also told me something that has stuck with me to this day. They said something along the lines of, "You guys seem so happy and you seem so good for her, but make sure this is what you want to do. You know how she can be." This was said very casually, so I didn't take great alarm. At the time, I didn't know what that meant. How she can be? For me, I told them, the entire 5 years I had known her was the happiest of my life and she was the sweetest, most loving, loyal girl I had ever met. I look back on it now and I think they were referring to her tendency towards deception and lies which we discussed when this happened the first time in 2014.

You would need to know so you have evidence when you expose. [exposure should be done to your family, her family, close friends and the OM's wife] Exposure will likely kill the affair, which is in your best interest anyway. I doubt you want him hanging your life in the future even after you are divorced.

They are very rare. I believe Dr Harley has said they constitute about 1-2% of cheaters. He has been in practice for 40+ years. I have been here for 18 years and yes, they are very rare. Most are one time cheaters who sort of "fell into" an affair because they have poor boundaries.


You shouldn't have trusted so much in the first place. It is too much trust that leads to affairs. The fact that your wife has been free to lead a secret second life for years tells that story. In a healthy marriage, they don't blindly trust each other, rather they set up conditions where it would be almost impossible to cheat. My H and I have complete and total transparency. We are together almost all the time. Our lives are so integrated that it would be impossible for either of us to cheat.



Her behavior comes from her poor choices. Infidelity is not genetic. My father and mother were both serial cheaters and I have never cheated.

Man. I understand what this is saying, but what about those times when I just want to go hang out with the guys? Or when I want to go fishing and she's not all that into fishing like I am? Or when I go play softball once per week for 2 hours with the guys? Surely being involved in athletics and sports is a good thing for health and staying in shape. None of my teammates wives or GF's come to the games either so it's not like I'm unique there. I'm an active person with a lot of hobbies and I can't realistically expect my significant other to always want to take part in my hobbies, can I? And surely the same is true in reverse as well. Now granted, that's probably a big part of finding a proper partner - someone who DOES share your same hobbies and interests and IS willing to participate in them with you. Looking back on my current marriage, I definitely could have devoted more time to activities for the two of us. But I do also enjoy my alone time. I was sometimes away from my wife, but I was always 100% loyal and honest with her. I just don't think it's feasible for me to be able to find someone who is going to want to come, for example, ice fishing multiple times per week with me though, much less someone who is willing to do that, and has the schedule to do it, who I'm attracted to, who I get along with, etc etc. Do these types of magical unicorn women exist? lol.

As badly as I crave a fantastic monogamous relationship, I'm also my own person and I don't think there's anyone in this world that I would want to be next to at all times. Surely there's a happy medium that exists?

The policy of radical honesty sounds great on paper. I'm FULLY on board with it. I think honesty is, quite simply, one of the most important and honorable traits a person can have. But what if one spouse says they are going to practice radical honesty but they actually don't? How is this enforced? I could have cheated on my wife multiple times while married and she would have never known. I have indeed turned down advances from women while married. If I had cheated though, like a one night stand sort of thing where there was no evidence or long-term affair, and then lied to her about it, she would still think I was practicing radical honesty even though I wasn't. It just seems like wishful thinking that RH is going to actually be practiced at all time. Granted, I'm very jaded at the current moment as well.

Here’s a good read and also listen to the radio clips. Serial Cheaters

You are thinking in black and white. You are thinking about your hobbies versus her hobbies, but that is not how great marriages work. What you are proposing is how incompatibility is created. If you don't have shared recreational activities the marriage eventually falls apart. Incompatibility is created by leading 2 independent lives, rather than one interdependent relationship. One of the best ways to create and maintain romantic love is to make sure you share your favorite hobby with your spouse. But what if your spouse HATES ice fishing and you HATE her favorite recreation of shopping? The solution is to find hobbies you BOTH LOVE. That way you are together when you are the happiest. But if you have a hobby, for example, that you feel you CAN'T give up I would point out that anything comes before your marriage will eventually come between you. Just consider the online games your wife played. That led to the end of your marriage.


All people are their "own person." What I am talking about is marriage, the joining of two people. In great marriages, the spouses share recreational activities and are each others favorite recreational companion. That doesn't mean you don't have ALONE TIME. My husband and I go out on about 4-5 dates a week but when we are home, we are usually alone. I am in my study doing my hobbies and he is either in the garage or the living room doing what he enjoys.


Honesty is a voluntary practice. Even so, if my H was "dishonest" about his actions, for example, I would know it very quickly because we have fully integrated, transparent lives.

Did you live together before marriage?