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#3009123 08/01/19 10:54 PM
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Hello, I am writer1’s husband. I promised my wife that I would post my side of the story to the best of my ability.

I remember starting MB about ten years ago after my wife had an affair with her affair partner and the birth father of our ten-year old daughter.

I felt very conflicted with Marriage Builders because I felt the books that the Harley’s wrote were also connected to this forum. While I did respect the Harley’s, I felt this forum was causing more contention than was helping cause healing efforts.

The reason for her affair was partially born out of my EA (with some physical contact, but not sex) with an ex-girlfriend for the first ten years of our marriage. I led my wife to believe that the ex-girlfriend and I were “just friends” and nothing more. Our older kids (four within a five-year time span) like playing with my ex-girlfriends’ kids, while we attended social gatherings that took place at their home, mostly in the living room and den of their house. In 2004, I ended contact with the ex-girlfriend after telling my wife of the ten year long emotional affair.

My wife (writer1) explains what happened then with her EA/PA with a married man and our lovely 10-yr old daughter who came from their affair, then my indiscretion two years ago with me reaching out to my ex-girlfriend and our decision to work to stay together, even my wife appearing on an episode of the Harley’s radio program.

Now, I am posting as my wife said, “for the worst possible reason.”

Yes, my wife received a text on 7/11 from a woman she’d never met before telling her that I had an affair with her and yes, I admitted to the whole thing. I brought a tidal wave into her harbor without warning.

The details expressed by her are accurate. I ended contact with this woman immediately and have not been in contact with her since. I have removed any form of social media from all electronic devices. I am trying to do right by her day by day, even hour by hour with absolutely no desire to contact the other woman ever again. I've been with my wife everyday spending quality couple time together since the affair has been admitted to and ended. We’ve been reading the Harley’s books and taking the assessments in their books

I do love my wife and I am open and willing to do anything to save our marriage. There is no desire to be in contact with the other. I have been fighting my own internal battles to understand the how, why, when, where and the level of self-loathing I feel at times is hard to bear. I am trying to stay strong for my wife as she doesn’t have many resources available in our small town. It may seem a conflict of interest or an oxymoron to confide in someone who just took all breathable air out of your world, but I am trying ever so patiently and humbly to correct the damage I’ve cause to take place.

I am here for her and know that it will take time and continued effort to overcome what I’ve caused to take place. Full disclosure, I have her lying next to me right now and while I know the damage I’ve caused in our relationship, I am heartened by the desire each of us has to do all we can to make our marriage work.

I feel that as we work together through the resources of MB and even this forum we can be successful.

I’d like to ask that you please respect our wishes to move forward working on our marriage. I know there are certain aspects that must be locked into place to ensure our success and we are willing and excited to move to make these a reality and a foundation for a truly honest, loving, and fulfilling marriage.

I am open to “reasonable” and helpful suggestions. As mentioned, we’re living on a shoestring budget for now and can’t afford a lot. But if you have suggestions that will allow us to not compromise our finances, we are open to these.

Thank you.

Last edited by Ariel; 08/02/19 07:28 AM. Reason: New thread
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You know... you don't really get to define what's reasonable anymore, bud. Because, obviously, your definitions of reasonable have done nothing for nobody but Jack and Schlitz, and Jack left town a long time ago.

You have had r-e-p-e-a-t-e-d behavior that is wrecking has wrecked your marriage, and half-assing a post to appease your wife while begging mercy for your pride and ego is beyond the pale here. And while you certainly have ego, I wonder what a man who has brutalized his family now three times would have to be proud of.

Half-measures just aren't going to cut it any more.

So, take it on the chin - YOU screwed up. You have REPEATEDLY screwed up, and your verbalized remorse is useless.

It's all ACTION from here out. All action, all day, every day.

So, if you cannot commit - fully - to creating a fully transparent, integrated marriage that is based on principals of mutual care and protection (which you have failed to do, over and over and over again), why should your wife remain with you. Why should she continue to take the abuse?

Don't answer that; LIVE THE ANSWER. Every day. All day.

You already know that there is a plethora of free materials and help here - you haven't been using them for years! But, bellyaching over the finances as your family falls to ruin is just another x in the "not serious" column. Having been around this forum a long time, and being familiar with your history, I know these are not new woes. And yet the financial woes continue. And yet the marital strife continues. And yet not being serious about having a non-injurious marriage continues.

Divorce is going to be seriously injurious to the family finances... which is probably why feigning interest in recovery while not at all recovering is so attractive.


But, now? Now when you aren't serious about doing this you can always told your wife that HoldHerHand was mean to you on the forum. That he wasn't reasonable, and didn't have any useful advice.

Please make sure to also tell her I told you to; man up, keep it in your pants, and take care of your family.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by w1hubby


I am open to “reasonable” and helpful suggestions. As mentioned, we’re living on a shoestring budget for now and can’t afford a lot. But if you have suggestions that will allow us to not compromise our finances, we are open to these.

Thank you.


I would agree with HHH's excellent post. You might not be the best judge of what is or isn't "reasonable" or "helpful." So far, you have demonstrated you know how to screw up a marriage, you don't know how to fix it.

Quote

I felt very conflicted with Marriage Builders because I felt the books that the Harley’s wrote were also connected to this forum. While I did respect the Harley’s, I felt this forum was causing more contention than was helping cause healing efforts.


This might make sense if you had healed your marriage, but you haven't. The forum is very connected to Dr Harley's books. Dr H supervises the forum and the moderators make sure people are giving advice in line with his. The moderators actually remove posts that conflict with his views. Most of the posters have been through the MB program and are in fully recovered marriages. [or are successfully divorced but familiar with MB]


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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If you survived the boot, here's the fluffy glove;

How is your health? How is your mood?

Do you need to go see the doc r/t antidepressants to help you get through? Have you ever had your hormone levels checked?

You are going to have to lead this recovery, and you are going to have to have gas in the tank to do it (not in the car, man... emotionally).


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by w1hubby

... my EA (with some physical contact, but not sex) with an ex-girlfriend for the first ten years of our marriage.
[..]
then my indiscretion two years ago with me reaching out to my ex-girlfriend

I scrolled through your wife's threads and wonder to what extend you are downplaying. I suspect the affair was 'physical but not sexual' because of your health issues and not because of some moral restraint.

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I’m new to the MB forum and so I don’t know yet the lingo, alphabet soup, and fancy formatting. So when I copied this over to Word to reply to each line as I like to do when writer1 and I send emails to each other in our morning email that we’ve kept as a tradition even throughout this situation. My MBA program was online and we had a forum like this to bounce ideas and engage in discussions with the professor. So I apologize in advance if I miss formatting in my reply to you.

First, I am grateful for this forum to be able to air out all that is happening and while this is still very jugular as it has only been three weeks since I told my wife about the affair, we are looking for answers and solutions that will keep our marriage from ever fallen apart again. We have agreed at this point that for whatever reason either one of us starts to feel we are no longer compatible with each other and that our marriage isn’t going to work out then we will take the proper measures to end it the right way. We’ve agreed that the way we’ve acted isn’t in our best interest and the best interest of our kids. So with that said, here are the answers to what you’ve written.

You know... you don't get to define what's reasonable anymore, bud. Because your definitions of reasonable have done nothing for nobody but Jack and Schlitz, and Jack left town a long time ago.
*Fully get what you mean by your concern of the word “reasonable”, poor choice of words, both writer1 and I agree that I meant “most budget-friendly” for us at this time as we live paycheck to paycheck. LOL, Jack and Schlitz is quite humorous, I’ve never heard that one before; mind if I borrow?

You have had r-e-p-e-a-t-e-d behavior that is wrecking has wrecked your marriage, and half-assing a post to appease your wife while begging mercy for your pride and ego is beyond the pale here. And while you certainly have an ego, I wonder what a man who has brutalized his family now three times would have to be proud of.
*HHH, I am aware of the repeated offenses that I’ve made and the damage I’ve caused. TBH, the post I was trying to write was about 10 paragraphs longer and my wife said that if it had to do with her affair, that most people know the story, so I wasn’t trying to half-[censored] anything; it was in the interest of the longevity of the post. I, too, am really amazed why she decided to allow me to stay even after this, but she said that she felt like I did that with her after the hell she put me through and bringing our now 10-year-old (who I’m proud to call the “Apple of My Eye” into our marriage from the AP. Yes, I should have been thinking of both my wife and our daughter before I started all of this.

Half-measures just aren't going to cut it anymore.
*Full measures are willingly being taken on my side and willingly on my wife’s side

So, take it on the chin - YOU screwed up. You have REPEATEDLY screwed up, and your verbalized remorse is useless.
*Preach HHH, I did and I’m striving to make amends to reconcile all this.

It's all ACTION from here out. All action, all day, every day.
*Yes, ACTION is all I got. I’m fully aware. Not that you may or others may care, but I am welling up (I’m a cryer, okay?) just typing this

So, if you cannot commit - fully - to creating a fully transparent, integrated marriage that is based on principals of mutual care and protection (which you have failed to do, over and over and over again), why should your wife remain with you. Why should she continue to take the abuse?
*I have committed full transparency to my wife to ensure the abuse has stopped and that if there is EVER ANY concerns from this point on, I will go to her and not try to find answers to our problems “out there”. As I told my wife the other day walking on the beach where we live, life may throw us some pretty difficult curveballs, but as long as we are looking to go through them together without turning to outside influences to quell what should be solved together, we can make this work.

Don't answer that; LIVE THE ANSWER. Every day. All-day.*
*Thank you, I very much will.

You already know that there are a plethora of free materials and help here - you haven't been using them for years! But, bellyaching over the finances as your family falls to ruin is just another x in the "not serious" column. Having been around this forum a long time, and being familiar with your history, I know these are not new woes. And yet the financial woes continue. And yet the marital strife continues. And yet not being serious about having a non-injurious marriage continues.
*I’m excited to dive headfirst into the material to help me, my wife, and both of us together.

Divorce is going to be seriously injurious to the family finances... which is probably why feigning interest in recovery while not at all recovering is so attractive.
*We discussed how much the price and cost of divorce would be, and while a bit of a hefty cost (price is just the initial) of shattered lives, we know that if we ever find ourselves in this situation again (A BIG “IF”) we will just have to suffer through financially. So, yes, money is a factor that is playing a role in keeping us together, but we are infinitely ensuring that we do all we can do to make sure we turn to each other, start the process, go down the path of recovery, and never come this way again.

But, now? Now when you aren't serious about doing this you can always tell your wife that HoldHerHand was mean to you on the forum. That he wasn't reasonable and didn't have any useful advice.
*HHH, you’ve been more than fair in your expressed thoughts and intentional comments of ensuring one know what they’ve done and, no, you haven’t been mean, just real and “reasonable”, and I very much appreciate it.
Please make sure to also tell her I told you to; man up, keep it in your pants and take care of your family.[/quote]
*Lesson learned: Manning Up; Keeping It In My Pants (except for writer1, of course), and Doing All I Can To Take Care Of My Family! Thank you!

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w1hubby (original quote):
I am open to “reasonable” and helpful suggestions. As mentioned, we’re living on a shoestring budget for now and can’t afford a lot. But if you have suggestions that will allow us to not compromise our finances, we are open to these.

Thank you.

Melody:
I would agree with HHH's excellent post. You might not be the best judge of what is or isn't "reasonable" or "helpful." So far, you have demonstrated you know how to screw up a marriage, you don't know how to fix it.

(w1hubby quote on 8/3/19)
*Melody, I explained above that "reasonable" wasn't the right wording, more like "budget-friendly" is what I (and we) are aiming for. The resources on this site should be good and less costly alternatives to what has been suggested and my wife said that I might benefit from going on the radio program to speak directly to Doctor and his wife. I am open to anything that will heal our marriage.

w1hubby (original quote):
I felt very conflicted with Marriage Builders because I felt the books that the Harley’s wrote were also connected to this forum. While I did respect the Harley’s, I felt this forum was causing more contention than was helping cause healing efforts.

Melody:
This might make sense if you had healed your marriage, but you haven't. The forum is very connected to Dr. Harley's books. Dr. H supervises the forum and the moderators make sure people are giving advice in line with his. The moderators actually remove posts that conflict with his views. Most of the posters have been through the MB program and are in fully recovered marriages. [or are successfully divorced but familiar with MB]

(w1hubby quote on 8/3/19)
*Melody, you are right, I didn't and I haven't, yet. My concern with the forum is that certain people come to the forum and ask certain questions and are looking for advice as a means to an end or path to where they want their marriage to go. This is where I feel the Harley's are more in a position to assist as it is their program and can make a better contribution to those who are asking for specific assistance. While those who post are doing it for all the right reasons, not everyone's request for assistance needs to be answered with (not that I've been called this) "dump the jerk" or "she's just going to do it again, so just end it now." While they've come to the forum for assistance and no one can force anyone to do anything, it is ultimately up to only two people to make the decision of how their situation will play out and that is "the couple." I and I believe my wife can attest, we are seeking answers that will help heal our marriage and answers and tips that will help us keep our marriage safe, fulfilling, and connected.

I am grateful for this resource.

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Originally Posted by w1hubby

*Melody, I explained above that "reasonable" wasn't the right wording, more like "budget-friendly" is what I (and we) are aiming for. The resources on this site should be good and less costly alternatives to what has been suggested and my wife said that I might benefit from going on the radio program to speak directly to Doctor and his wife. I am open to anything that will heal our marriage.


Dr Harley does recommend polygraphs when there is uncertainty about the past, just so you know. Like I said before, the advice given here has to align with Dr. Harley's basic concepts and general advice.

Quote
While those who post are doing it for all the right reasons, not everyone's request for assistance needs to be answered with (not that I've been called this) "dump the jerk" or "she's just going to do it again, so just end it now."


That is a completely dishonest characterization. Posters are not telling every new person to "dump the jerk." As you should know, though, Dr Harley is very forthright when he feels the marriage should end. He doesn't mince words. Most posters here have a pretty good sense if a marriage is hopeless from listening to Dr Harley for years. This is not a marriage at any cost website.

Even so, you are not "forced" to post here and it is ultimately up to the board members if they want to post to you at all. The volunteers on this forum do this out of their own free time. If you ignore the advice and make dishonest negative comments about the board, you aren't likely to get much help.

I do agree it's probably better for you to communicate with Dr Harley on his radio show.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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HHH
If you survived the boot, here's the fluffy glove;
*Interesting visuals
How is your health? How is your mood?
*Just had a physical and all vitals are good...mood, well, overall, it depends. When with my wife, couldn't be better...at work, well, besides our morning and lunchtime phone calls, I miss her terribly and do all I can to stay busy and focused on work, as my wife said would be better in our financial condition we find ourselves in at this time. I work from 5 am to 1:30 pm, so I get to come home earlier than most who slog through a 9 to 5 or even 7 to 4 shift.
We were discussing me finding a work from home position. I do sales and our company used to have work from home reps, but they laid them all off. I feel strongly I can sell things from a home office even better than a brick and mortar.

Do you need to go see the doc r/t antidepressants to help you get through? Have you ever had your hormone levels checked?
*No medications I feel I need, just a need to be close to my wife and work to help our marriage get and stay stronger every day. Never had a hormone check, but I'm sure with my wife and I being close and together during the day, and "closer" at night, my hormones are in check.
You are going to have to lead this recovery, and you are going to have to have gas in the tank to do it (not in the car, man... emotionally).
*I am doing my best to lead this, my man (I hope you're a man...if not, well, my friend), but seriously, we've agreed to start and pursue recovery over the alternative. I have gas in the tank and ready emotionally.

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Goody2Shoes
Originally Posted by w1hubby

... my EA (with some physical contact, but not sex) with an ex-girlfriend for the first ten years of our marriage.
[..]
then my indiscretion two years ago with me reaching out to my ex-girlfriend

G2S
I scrolled through your wife's threads and wonder to what extent you are downplaying. I suspect the affair was 'physical but not sexual' because of your health issues and not because of some moral restraint.
*Great point, G2S, both my wife and I are working through this and I've told her everything about the first affair I had. That affair was physical but not sexual because we were friends since high school and knew we didn't want to cross any lines. It was the same her that I reach out to two years ago, but we only talked over the telephone and didn't have any physical contact as she lives four hours away.
Poor boundaries and a lack of need fulfillment, with me, not doing things necessary to meet my wife's needs caused these affairs to take place. We are digging through resources on the sight to ensure proper boundaries are made strong, maintained and if there are ever any concerns, we address them with one another.

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Originally Posted by w1hubby
*Melody, I explained above that "reasonable" wasn't the right wording, more like "budget-friendly" is what I (and we) are aiming for. The resources on this site should be good and less costly alternatives to what has been suggested and my wife said that I might benefit from going on the radio program to speak directly to Doctor and his wife. I am open to anything that will heal our marriage.

Melody Lane reply:
Dr. Harley does recommend polygraphs when there is uncertainty about the past, just so you know. Like I said before, the advice given here has to align with Dr. Harley's basic concepts and general advice.

w1hubby rebuttal:
*I told my wife that if we had the means to pay for a polygraph (but we don't at this time) I told her, "strap on the cuff." I do feel it is the only way to show my genuineness and sincerity I have for making sure we move forward towards an honest and loving and trusting (and verifiable) marriage.

Quote by w1hubby
While those who post are doing it for all the right reasons, not everyone's request for assistance needs to be answered with (not that I've been called this) "dump the jerk" or "she's just going to do it again, so just end it now."

Melody Lane reply:
That is a completely dishonest characterization. Posters are not telling every new person to "dump the jerk." As you should know, though, Dr. Harley is very forthright when he feels the marriage should end. He doesn't mince words. Most posters here have a pretty good sense if a marriage is hopeless from listening to Dr. Harley for years. This is not a marriage at any cost website.
*So while this may have been my perception, it was couched in the contentious feeling my wife felt the first time she was on the forum the first time back in the late 2000s. It was very difficult for her and I perceived there would be those cause the same contention on the forum now, BUT I have found this site to be a great "meeting of the minds" and many of the points raised here I've taken to heart and feel they are of great "far-sighted" benefit. I realize Dr. Harley's principles are there to help those involved in an affair and those recovering even if it means, at times, there is too much to overcome for a couple to stay together. I understand this isn't a marriage at any cost. I just came here with the hopes to find resources to help my wife and I start to heal and move down the road to recovery. This is what we decided would be why we come here and hopefully, the resources will help us grow down the road of recovery.

Even so, you are not "forced" to post here and it is ultimately up to the board members if they want to post to you at all. The volunteers on this forum do this out of their own free time. If you ignore the advice and make dishonest negative comments about the board, you aren't likely to get much help.
*Yes, I know I'm here as a choice and I am grateful for the feedback from those volunteering their time (probably best used as more y'all's UA time.) I am not trying to be dishonest, I am trying to give a perception of what I indirectly experienced many years ago before realizing what the forum is, and for that I thank each of you assisting.
I do agree it's probably better for you to communicate with Dr. Harley on his radio show.
*My wife just gave me the means by which to get with Joyce, submit my story, and see if the radio show would be a good fit on-air or just listening to their advice.

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Have you written Joyce?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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My wife is helping me get ready to write to Joyce.

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I just finished and sent the email to Joyce. BTW, to clarify, my wife didn't have anything to do with writing what I wrote, just helping me find the link to send the message to Joyce.

I haven't posted because I haven't had any posts to reply to.


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