What can be done when you and your spouse disagree on a conviction or moral issue?

A bit of background that may be relevant. My husband comes from a very fundamental Christian (dare I say legalistic) background. I am a Christian as well, but grew up without the kind of legalism I now recognize was in my husband’s upbringing. At the time we met, I saw this as a noble and desirable quality. I wanted someone who took his faith seriously and didn’t just go to church on Sunday and live differently midweek. As time went on, I became more and more bothered by the kind of legalism I saw... and we found a new church home that made us both happy. My husband still does not feel like anything was legalistic about where we were going, and if it wasn’t for me, he probably would have stayed there. People change over the years, and I’m happy that he is more relaxed on some issues, but how do you work things out when you don’t share the same convictions on things?

The main problem is that he pulls the “man should be leader, and wife is to submit” card on any of these issues.

The issue at hand right now is alcohol. For the first part of our marriage, it was a non-issue because I was committed to living and avoiding behaviors that were not permitted in the church, or viewed as sinful or wrong. I have since changed my mind on this and I don’t believe it is a sin, as long as you do it responsibly and avoid drunkenness. I have enjoyed an occasional drink with a friend or when my parents visit... but my husband does not like it. He has set out some very specific and sometimes confusing boundaries for me and alcohol which at times don’t really make sense to me and have created some awkward situations at times. He has basically said he does not want alcohol in our home, except when someone else brings it. It is ok on dates or if I go out with friends, or alone, but never when I’m around the kids.

Understand.... I don’t believe alcohol has a grip on me. I really just enjoy a glass of red wine occasionally. I respect that he doesn’t want it in our home or around the kids (though I don’t personally believe modeling casual responsible drinking in front of the kids is a problem). Awhile back, he took the kids to the mountains for 3 nights. I was not able to go, so I stayed home alone which is kind of nice at times to just have the quiet and no one else depending on you.... and yes, I enjoyed a glass of wine or two while I had a nice bubble bath, knowing full well the “rule” that has been laid out regarding alcohol. Maybe I shouldn’t have done this, but I also feel like I am a grown woman and it’s something I enjoy and normally no one would even know - except this time, a receipt was found and my husband is livid that I’ve gone behind his back and brought alcohol into our house. Also I should mention that this is not the first time this has happened, nor the first time he has caught me. I realize that what I should have done is have a conversation about it, but I chose the seemingly easier path at the time and thought what he doesn’t know won’t hurt him. According to his “alcohol rules”, it would have been perfectly fine for me to go out by myself instead, alone, to a restaurant or bar, and get a glass of cab there. But not while I am alone and enjoying a nice relaxing evening to myself.

We are now going to counseling to try and sort this out. I know the counselor isn’t really supposed to pick sides, but in talking to my husband, I sensed her frustration on his unwillingness to even consider a compromise. She (as well as I), don’t fully understand his rules and all the exceptions to the rules. “He is leader, he made the call, I disobeyed, I am in the wrong, I chose alcohol over our marriage, I may even have an alcohol problem....” These are his thoughts. My thoughts “I don’t KEEP alcohol in the house, I was alone, I knew he wouldn’t like it but I did it anyway, this isn’t my conviction, I am not a child.”

I have read the policy of joint agreement.... but what if both of us aren’t on board with that... His opinion is that the Bible and God’s thoughts of the role of husband and role of wife trumps this idea. He is the head of the house, this issue is his call if we can’t agree, and if I am not on board with his call, what kind of marriage do we have (his words).

At this point I can only hope that he will get to a place he is willing to compromise. I sensed that the counselor is leading him and us in that direction, but hearing him talk, I don’t see him ever budging. This issue isn’t even about the alcohol to me, it is the principle of the thing. There are many issues in our marriage where I feel like I come out losing and I’m tired of it.

Any advice? I’m so frustrated turning this issue over and over in my head, feeling like there is no way out of this other than to just abide by his rules.

Any advice for me?

Hi Kimber, welcome to Marriage Builders. The basic problem is that your husband holds an UNBIBLICAL VIEW of marriage where he believes his views matter and yours don't. Unfortunately, marriages don't work out when they operate like that. As you can see with your own eyes, your marriage grows more and more unhappy and incompatible. When one person - your husband - gains at the others expense, the result is resentment and incompatibility. It's a fast way to fall out of love. Falling out of love puts your marriage at risk of divorce.

As a Christian, he should submit to you and you should submit to him. Ephesians 5:21 In that kind of relationship there is no boss, but a partnership.

Dr Harley discusses it here on the radio show in the archives - I think now you have to buy a membership to hear it but it might be worth it because I think this subject has come up many times:
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November 17, 2017
Segment 10609

If I were in your situation, I would email Dr Harley at his radio show and tell him what you posted above. [it's free advice] He can address your issue on his radio show and maybe even speak to your husband. You can download the apps also at this link: https://www.marriagebuilders.com/marriage-builders-radio.htm

Thank you! I will have to give it a listen. The thing is though, he would just disagree with anyone who called his view unbiblical. Always, forever. Until he dies. So I don’t know WHAT to do. But thank you... I will send an email and listen to and maybe get him to listen to the segment. I’ll try anything.

Hi Kimber,

Welcome to the marriagebuilders board.

Would it be possible for you to sell him on a wonderful, joy filled marriage where you are both deeply in love with each other, without taking on or bringing up the theological issue?

Here are two articles that you might be able to share with him:

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/how-dr-harley-learned-to-save-marriages.htm
https://www.marriagebuilders.com/a-summary-of-dr-harleys-basic-concepts.htm

Do you think he would be open to reading those articles and considering that approach?

My experience in taking on the theological issue is that the argument is usually hopeless. The convictions are very deep and the person entrenched in them is unwilling to consider the possibility of a misunderstanding. Regardless of how polite or carefully you address their error, their conversation quickly devolves to insults.

The best way I've found to deal with it is sell around the theological argument and not mention it.

Does that make sense? Do you think that would work for you?

I’ve read the concepts, I agree with them myself, but he will undoubtedly hold them up against his interpretation of scripture and I’m not sure they’d hold up to his interpretation which he believes to be absolute truth. Any kind of advice that is remotely secular in nature, is going to be taken with a grain of salt. You see my predicament here. I believe it will be a miracle for him to meet me halfway. He already believes he’s come to a great compromise to “allow” me to have alcohol at all. Even when I have alcohol within the boundary he’s set (out or with company), he has made comments... he wants me to know he doesn’t like it. All of this now is coming to a head and making me ANGRY... I’m ready to stand up and face this and I don’t want to back down reluctantly this time. Maybe I’m expecting too much and maybe I’m too angry right now but I’m just so tired of feeling like I need permission. I even have to ask to buy it for a recipe. 😢

@Sunnytimes Sadly, I do not see this working for me at this current time. I am hoping the counselor can help us with this, or help him see that we need to find middle ground. For instance, I am totally fine with not keeping it in the house typically. But when I am the only one home, which happens occasionally, I would like that freedom. I also don’t really see a huge deal with our kids observing the use of alcohol in a responsible way, but if it is that important to him that they not see me drinking AT HOME, then I can stick to that. Honestly I don’t see a difference between that and drinking when someone brings it over as a gift.

Anyway currently he is unwilling to budge at all. I am hoping that it is because of his anger at me not respecting his boundaries, and eventually that will subside and we can reach an understanding. Right now though, impossible.

This is why you need to reach out to Dr Harley. Dr Harley is a Biblical theologian and he would help your husband understand why his interpretation is wrong. This view is really not biblical. Neither is his view on alcohol.

Yes, and anything that is secular should be taken with a grain of salt. All of the concepts are biblically based and none conflict with scripture. Dr Harley can show him how he is misinterpreting scripture and wrecking his marriage in the process.

But you are the other half of the equation. You don't have to acquiesce to his truth, and in fact, doing so in areas you are not mutually enthusiastic will be the destruction of either you or your marriage. It just adds more resentment that the marriage has to recover from.


That's OK. Dr. Harley is a Christian man who's life work has been studying what makes marriages work, but you don't need to get into that aspect. You can just tell him this is what you need in order to be in love with him. If he gets back into the theology, keep directing him back to fact his actions heretofore haven't worked out for you and you need different behaviors in order to restore your in-love feeling towards him.

Tell him you found a system that will work for both of you. Sell him on the idea of being deeply in love with each other, being each other's favorite friend and companion and having a joy filled, wonderful marriage.


Channel your anger and resolve towards solving the behavioral situation for good. Don't give up; giving up won't do you or your marriage any good.

And my husband will say, “Where did he learn his theology? What denomination is he coming from?” MAYBE if he is from a Baptist, or conservative background, my husband will open up. If it’s anything other than what his interpretation is, it’s going to be VERY difficult for him to change his mind or admit wrongdoing. He is SO HARD and narrow minded. Like I said, when we got married I saw this as a good thing. I saw it as a strength that he had clear views of scripture and knew the Bible. Now, I just see as legalistic. I feel so trapped.

Just give it a try. Did you email Dr Harley yet?

Kimmer, I so know the type. I deal with them a lot in other areas of my life, too. Ha, better yet, I used to be one!! I was in such deep bondage to wrong theology on this issue. Melody had a real time of getting me to consider a different direction. However, her direction was right all along, and far more Biblical than mine was.

Back to your situation: Dr. Harley has a gentle, pragmatic charm about him so it could be worth a try to call in, as Melody advised. If you listened to a few segments of the radio show you'll get a feel for how Dr. Harley responds respectfully and constructively to difficult callers. I'm sure that Dr. Harley would respond in a way that would certainly do no harm to your husband's propensity to consider his methods.

Not yet... should I just pretty much describe what I first wrote on this thread or should I shorten it some or polish it a bit?

Will have to spend some time listening to him and becoming familiar with him. For now, our counselor has suggested we not talk about the issues we’re talking about in the sessions. It forces us to mull over things on our own and soul search and instead focus on being kind to each other which is what we are doing. I think it’s helpful because both of us are angry, and I think having a mediator is helpful. So this is what I’m doing now: Reading, talking on forums, listening to podcasts, reading articles on Marriage Builders. This silence about issues is obviously temporary.

Currently it is probably the best thing. While we were away on vacation this summer, his father passed away... terrible timing, not that there’s ever good timing... but there’s been a lot to deal with in our house it’s too overwhelming. Being kind through this is probably the best for now.

I would send the exact same thing you posted here. And include your phone # so Mrs. Harley can call and ask you questions for clarification. I would send it now so you can possibly speak to them on Monday or Tuesday alone.


Just know that Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist and has a dramatically different approach from marriage counselors. He thinks that "talking in sessions" together is destructive to marriages because couples in conflict are very angry. I would read through Dr Harley's bio and the basic concepts and check out his radio shows. Start reading here:

Meet Dr Harley

HOW DR. HARLEY LEARNED TO SAVE MARRIAGES

Basic Concepts

Usually a good idea until you have been trained to eliminate lovebusters. Eliminating lovebusters is the first important step in restoring romantic love to your marriage.

This is a great article about Dr. Harley's different approach: When should you tell your spouse, "We have a problem." Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.


HOW TO CREATE YOUR OWN PLAN TO RESOLVE CONFLICTS AND RESTORE LOVE Willard F. Harley, Jr., PhD

Read Beware of Bad Counselors

I do like our counselor and I feel like my husband does too. She has a way of asking questions that helps reveal some things that we hadn’t thought of before. This issue is alcohol has only been brought up in one of our three sessions. I am getting that the Marriage Builders concepts are a bit non traditional.... and maybe in lieu of counselors, but I really like her so far and am open to seeing how she can help us. I can only imagine the bad advice coming from counselors these days. We are seeing a real counselor, not just a pastor in a church. I graduated with a BS in psychology from a Christian university and even they told us that they would never recommend going to a pastor for counseling. Not all things are a spiritual issue, and some people really do need meds. Most pastors don’t have the necessary training.

So I just checked out from the library “He Wins, She Wins: Learning the Art of Marital Negotiation”. It makes a lot of sense, I love what he has to say. I always thought that I believed in the idea of husband as headship and wife being obedient, but why does that feel so wrong to me?? It’s becoming evident that we feel very different about the issue and it may be the source of not just this conflict, but many conflicts in our marriage. The unfortunate thing though, as I read this book, I know beyond a doubt that my husband will dismiss the ideas presented here. He will tell me that this is a worldly view of marriage and he is not interested in exploring a more equal view of negotiating. I sent an email off to Dr. Harley and was honest with him about how my husband will feel about these issues, so that’s all I can do for now. Thanks everyone for your suggestions and advice!

Well, Dr Harley is not a "worldy" Christian, he is Christian theologian and he may be able to get through to your husband. I do believe that most of your issues stem from your husband's unbiblical worldview of marriage. Of course he wants to be in charge, as do most people. Dr Harley has saved the marriages of many pastors who held this wrongheaded view when their wives couldn't take it anymore and wanted a divorce.


Because it is! It leads to divorce. And God hates divorce!