Following her email to me she asked if we could talk about finishing the basement because if I expected her to live here as a roommate then she'd need her own room...

I wonder if I should just tell her that I am not expecting her to live here as a roommate and reiterate that while I can't stop her from divorcing me that I'd like to work on our marriage and be a loving husband.

Absolutely, I would just tell her you aren't expecting her to live like a roommate. I thought she wanted a divorce?

Is she suggesting that you all live in the same house while divorced?

Emailed here:
Thanks for sending me your views. As I explained yesterday, I am not interested in putting our kids through a divorce. Divorce is devastating to kids, as I have experienced it, and that is not something I want to do to them. I have been reading articles about it and found this one: https://www.divorcestatistics.info/some-devastating-effects-of-divorce-in-the-usa.html

I am not agreeable to putting the kids in a "Kids First" class because that will just scare them and cause confusion. Maybe if the court ordered it, but we are not in such a position now.

I don't have an expectation that you will live here as a roommate. I certainly can't stop you from filing for divorce, though. I hope we can work this out without going that route because I know we could have a great marriage if we both tried.

I can imagine that it was awkward for you to acknowledge the nature of your affair to your family and friends. Although, have you thought about how unpleasant it was for me to talk to talk to our family and friends about your continuing affair with OM and request their support to stop the affair?

Love

This is weird. She talks that she wants a divorce and even scheduled a mediation appointment. But then she says stuff like, "if you expect me to live here as a roommate, then I need my own room" which implies that she won't divorce me, although in her email this morning, she says she'll be forced to hire an attorney.

Is this the fog? Or is she running an angle I can't see, yet?

It is the FOG. She is very confused. She doesn't know what she wants. I think the roommate thing might be a ploy to scare you because she knows that upsets you. This is why I suggested you treat her like a falling down drunk until she sobers up. You can't reason with someone like that, but you CAN politely and lovingly hold your ground as she sobers up. You will see the fog wear off as the weeks go by *IF* contact has truly ended. I don't think she has given up the idea of the OM, though. I see no signs of withdrawal and that is why I want you to expose to his family! That will ruin the future hopes of an affair for a wayward wife.

Here's her response to my email yesterday including that article:

I have read the article and I agree that divorce is hard on children. However, I believe what leads up to the divorce is just as damaging. In our case, what has lead to the dissolve of this marriage is a history or emotional abusive behaviors from you along with my affair with OM. We have not demonstrated a healthy connected marriage for our boys. This has long term devastating effects on them as well. As I have stated several times, we do not need to have a traumatic divorce, we can go through mediation and communicate how best to dissolve our marriage in a way that best supports the boys. This marriage is over, it is just a matter of what route you we will take to finalize the legal end.

As for you reaching out to my friends, family and co-works, I believe I stated that it was an awkward text for them, not for me. Some of my friends have reached out to me with concern but not one has encouraged me to stay married to you. They have seen how lonely and miserable this marriage has made me feel.

Of course some her friends would not directly tell her to stay married to me. All they have gotten is Sarah's miserablness and rarely ever any good stuff.

I wonder if her family has contacted her and encouraged her to stay or divorce. Maybe I should follow up with her mom, dad, and sisters.

"Thanks for reading the article. Our marriage has not been happy for either of us recently, but I don't believe the solution is divorce. Rather, I think the solution is to work to turn things around, not to have an affair. That sends a terrible message to our boys. I am not planning on having any divorce, traumatic or otherwise. That is your idea. I would rather work to make our marriage a happy place for us all. I am committed to doing that."

I wouldn't bother unless you forgot to ask them to reach out to her.

What about the 2 follow ups: getting spyware on her phone and exposing to the OM's family?

Have you exposed to your children?

Yes. Both kids know that my wife was engaged in an appropriate relation ship with the father of their close friends. My 12 year old knows that it was an affair which means that she was cheating on me and our family.

Still trying to get OM family information. No go on the spyware, I'm just not feeling comfortable doing it.

Here's another email from her this morning:

Dear DrD,

We have ben married for more than 16 years and in a relationship for 20. The majority of this time has been an unhealthy and detrimental relationship for me. I have attempted several times to leave the relationship but you have always asked me to stay and give it one more try. You have made promises before about how you are committed to making things better, but those changes where never sustainable and you always reverted to your abusive behaviors. It is time to finally break the cycle and end this relationship.

This marriage has been abusive for so long that our marriage counselor suggested I get treated for PTSD with EMDR. You were in the session when she made this suggestion, isn't that alarming to you? Maybe you don't understand what marriage to you has been like. Maybe that is why you don't understand why I can't give it one more try. It is over, as it should been back in 1999, the first time I tried to get out from the abusive cycle.

As for the affair, OM has asked me not to have contact with him. OMW and OM are working on their marriage. I have not seen OM since August and I haven't had any communication since Sept 29.

The boys know about the classes starting next week. I fully intend to take them as it will help them develop some cooping strategies for the changes that are coming to our family structure. Again, I am asking that you reconsider mediation as I believe it is the most cooperative solution for the boys.

The objective here is not to make you "feel comfortable," it is to spy on her so you will know what she is doing. You KNOW she is hiding things from you that you have a RIGHT to know about. No spouse has the right to the privacy to destroy her spouse behind his back. Your spouse is under the spell of an affair and is doing everything in her power to destroy your marriage and your children's family. You should be VERY "uncomfortable" about that and should do what you can do protect your marriage and your children.

You need to get over your discomfort real quick, because you need to know what she is doing and saying for the sake of your self preservation.


What does she mean about a marriage counselor saying your marriage has been abusive?

DrD, you need to understand that your marriage is under assault. You need every weapon at your disposal. Half measures will avail you nothing. Spying is one of the most basic steps a betrayed spouse can take to win this war and protect himself. Keep in mind that you have a right to know what she is doing and saying because it directly affects you and your children. She has been incredibly destructive to you all. You can't afford to skip this step. NO ONE feels comfortable spying, but that is not the objective. You are in a situation where you don't have the luxury of feeling comfortable. You are at war.

I don't recall that our marriage counselor said it was abusive. The issue of EMDR I thought came up when I my wife and I told the marriage counselor that I was doing EMDR.

I think what my wife is saying is that in her mind the marriage has been abusive and the marriage counselor suggested EMDR. Maybe I should follow up with our marriage counselor to see if she recalls saying it was abusive or that the nature of our marriage suggested that PTSD could be present.

Ok, I'm on it. I wonder if I can get away with a 3-month pkg rather than purchasing an entire year.

She finally told me yesterday, verbally, that the OM requested NC and that they hadn't talked since late September. She told me this because the OM and his family had given us a table and yesterday my wife suggested that we ought to give it back and that sh'ed leave it up to me to do so. I replied that she should just email the OM or OMW to arrange for pickup/delivery and that's when she told me about the OMs request for NC. Probably a LB in there and I should've have either stayed quiet or suggested that they'd let us know if they wanted it back.

Good man! Just start off with a 3 month package and then you can decide.


Do you want to keep the table? If you don't, I would just donate it to Goodwill or sell it on craigslist. I sure wouldn't want that in my house.

"Dear W, I do remember the counselor suggesting that you might try EMDR because I was planning on doing so. I do know that you didn't want to separate or divorce until you started your affair with OMW's husband.. [insert OMW's name] If you want to leave the marriage, that is your prerogative, Just know that I want us to have a happy marriage and I believe I have a plan that can help us both if you will commit to ending your affair permanently. Your affair has the been the most painful thing that has ever happened to me. We have hurt each other so much and I am committed to making you happy in a relationship that is free from anger, judgement and dishonesty. But it has to be a 2 way street.

Like I said earlier, I am not open to taking the boys to a parenting class. If it ever gets to the mediation stage, I would prefer to let lawyers hammer that out and avoid conflict. That is the most cooperative solution in my opinion."

I checked in with our marriage counselor and asked about emdr coming up in our sessions. Her reponse:

Wife recalled it as abusive and felt herself becoming triggered, worrying about past events happening again, and feeling disconnected due to past events.
EMDR can unpack anxiety provoking situations so that it does not create the same somatic distress when there are reminders of it in the present. We can notice feelings of current anger, sadness, worry without it being exacerbated by every past time of feeling that same way. When there is current safety in a relationship, we can then remember that past events are “over” and we can move forward with less worry. I am not in a place to diagnose her with anything and am glad she connected with treatment. EMDR can help us process any past events, present triggers, and future worries related to control/choice (ie I am powerless, I have no choice), safety ( ie I am unsafe or something bad is going to happen), or responsibility (I am not enough/important/loveable/etc). I have had success with partners who utilized EMDR and found benefit from just the calming skills and resources alone and/or processing past events to bring in new information about themselves and the other person in order to lower the distress and change the belief about the event (ie believing they are important and ok).

I didn't think our counselor called my behavior abusive, but it appears that my wife is recalling it that way.

Rewriting history?