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Over 80% of affairs (according to multiple studies) start in the workplace. So if a long and successful marriage is your goal, it's a terrible idea to develop close friendships with people of the opposite sex at your workplace. You and your wife might think it's fine, but you've fallen out of love with her, and I'd bet she's fallen out of love with you, which is why you're not getting as much sex as you'd like. So it's not even working for you.

On no emotional affair....get real, dude! You come here posting at the outset that you think this co-worker has a crush on you, that she gives you special attention. You think maybe you need better boundaries. You then post that after a long night talking alone with her, you realize that your marriage sucks and you have more in common with this woman than your wife. You even state "I should get a divorce or get another job". Why is the "other job" option even relevant if you don't have feelings for this woman, like your marriage would survive if you get away from your affair partner? You think she's in love with you, you say you'd date her if you were single, and now you want out of your marriage. You're not fooling any of us, at least be honest with yourself.

On waiting till marriage to have sex...nice strawman argument. I waited the second time around (and sex is my top emotional need!) in part because I realized becoming sexually active compromised my ability to judge my ex-wife when we were dating. Many women who wait feel the same way. People routinely destroy their careers, families and lives to satisfy their sexual appetites, it's a powerful drug. What's much more important to marriage success is someone's willingness to meet your needs and to hold you accountable for meeting theirs with radical honesty. If you need a lot of sex and the survival of the marriage is you/your partner's top priority, you'll figure out how to get there in a way where both people are happy. "Not having enough sex" is what almost every husband's marriage looks like before it ends, regardless of how much sex they had before they were married. Go look at other threads on here if you don't believe me.

How are you certain that your wife's needs were met? That's not something you can answer for her. You ought to both fill out an Emotional Needs questionnaire ( https://www.marriagebuilders.com/emotional-needs-questionnaire.htm ) and see how closely your perception matches her reality. You can see the dependency I illustrated between her needs and sex....just like you doing all of the romance stuff, if her needs weren't actually met, she's not going to want to give you sex either. On the enjoying time together...it sounds like you guys need to find some new recreational companionship activities you both enjoy so that you enjoy your time together. It doesn't just "happen" in marriage, it takes work. Most couples find out after they are married that their interests aren't as similar as they thought, Dr. Harley talks at length about that. But it's no surprise that you aren't getting laid when you spend no time with her. Why in the world should she give that to you under these circumstances?

If you want a divorce...there's nothing stopping you. I filed first in my case, so I understand the process. But if you want your 10 years of life down the drain to count for something, you shouldn't settle for easy answers about why this happened. This first divorce will put you in a much higher risk bracket for a second divorce. First marriages have about a 50/50 chance, second marriages end in divorce 70-80% of the time. You're going to need all the help you can get unless you never want to remarry, and specifically you need to figure out what marriage-destroying habits you brought to the table in this first one. We've pointed out a few, your wife could help you figure out the others, if you're brave enough to face the criticism. Dr. Harley's books are another great resource in that vein. But if you don't figure out what you can improve on, you have no assurance you won't be here in another 10 years. Every divorcee thinks their ex was the problem.



Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

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Originally Posted by axslinger85
Over 80% of affairs (according to multiple studies) start in the workplace. So if a long and successful marriage is your goal, it's a terrible idea to develop close friendships with people of the opposite sex at your workplace. You and your wife might think it's fine, but you've fallen out of love with her, and I'd bet she's fallen out of love with you, which is why you're not getting as much sex as you'd like. So it's not even working for you.


That's all well and good, but as I've said, it's not an affair no matter how much you really really want it be. I have plenty of very close friends who are female, that's all they are. If I wanted them to be more, they would have been more. I really don't understand this backwards thinking that you have, but whatever. You're entitled to your own opinions (but not your own facts, and the fact of the matter is that having close friendships doesn't equal an affair).

Originally Posted by axslinger85
On no emotional affair....get real, dude! You come here posting at the outset that you think this co-worker has a crush on you, that she gives you special attention. You think maybe you need better boundaries. You then post that after a long night talking alone with her, you realize that your marriage sucks and you have more in common with this woman than your wife. You even state "I should get a divorce or get another job". Why is the "other job" option even relevant if you don't have feelings for this woman, like your marriage would survive if you get away from your affair partner? You think she's in love with you, you say you'd date her if you were single, and now you want out of your marriage. You're not fooling any of us, at least be honest with yourself.


Meh, you don't have to believe me. I know what's going on, I've posted what's going on. You choose to ignore the truth, again nothing I can do to change your opinion even if it's a flat out false. Whether you chose to believe it or not is your choice. Stop projecting your won faults onto others though, dude.

Originally Posted by axslinger85
On waiting till marriage to have sex...nice strawman argument. I waited the second time around (and sex is my top emotional need!) in part because I realized becoming sexually active compromised my ability to judge my ex-wife when we were dating. Many women who wait feel the same way. People routinely destroy their careers, families and lives to satisfy their sexual appetites, it's a powerful drug. What's much more important to marriage success is someone's willingness to meet your needs and to hold you accountable for meeting theirs with radical honesty. If you need a lot of sex and the survival of the marriage is you/your partner's top priority, you'll figure out how to get there in a way where both people are happy. "Not having enough sex" is what almost every husband's marriage looks like before it ends, regardless of how much sex they had before they were married. Go look at other threads on here if you don't believe me.


You use the term "strawman argument" without knowing what it is. Waiting until marriage is playing with fire. People who wait until marriage usually have a very poor view of sex and carry that into their marriage. It's not the 1950s anymore, bud, waiting until marriage is a huge mistake, especially since most women view their sexuality as equal to men and desire it just as much as men do.

Originally Posted by axslinger85
How are you certain that your wife's needs were met? That's not something you can answer for her. You ought to both fill out an Emotional Needs questionnaire ( https://www.marriagebuilders.com/emotional-needs-questionnaire.htm ) and see how closely your perception matches her reality. You can see the dependency I illustrated between her needs and sex....just like you doing all of the romance stuff, if her needs weren't actually met, she's not going to want to give you sex either. On the enjoying time together...it sounds like you guys need to find some new recreational companionship activities you both enjoy so that you enjoy your time together. It doesn't just "happen" in marriage, it takes work. Most couples find out after they are married that their interests aren't as similar as they thought, Dr. Harley talks at length about that. But it's no surprise that you aren't getting laid when you spend no time with her. Why in the world should she give that to you under these circumstances?


I know my marriage and what I've done compared to what she's done. Can't really condense 9 years of marriage into a few posts online. You chose not to believe me, again that's your problem, not mine. Stop projecting, pal.

Originally Posted by axslinger85
If you want a divorce...there's nothing stopping you. I filed first in my case, so I understand the process. But if you want your 10 years of life down the drain to count for something, you shouldn't settle for easy answers about why this happened. This first divorce will put you in a much higher risk bracket for a second divorce. First marriages have about a 50/50 chance, second marriages end in divorce 70-80% of the time. You're going to need all the help you can get unless you never want to remarry, and specifically you need to figure out what marriage-destroying habits you brought to the table in this first one. We've pointed out a few, your wife could help you figure out the others, if you're brave enough to face the criticism. Dr. Harley's books are another great resource in that vein. But if you don't figure out what you can improve on, you have no assurance you won't be here in another 10 years. Every divorcee thinks their ex was the problem.


I met with a few lawyers last week and the divorce is in process. She confirmed with me that this will be straightforward since our state considers it a short term property. Since I owned the house free and clear prior to the marriage, she's not entitled to it or even half the value of it. She gets half the savings and since our income is basically the same, she will likely not get any alimony (even if she does it will amount to only a few hundred a month and only for half the length of the marriage).

Sunday night I told her that I had filed. She had no reaction at all just said something like "that's probably for the best." Right now we're just figuring out the logistics of how to get her moved out. She's staying with her parents, who live close, and slowly getting her stuff moved out. I wish I could say I'm upset, but mostly I'm just numb at the fact I wasted so much time in this marriage.

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Quote

Meh, you don't have to believe me. I know what's going on, I've posted what's going on. You choose to ignore the truth, again nothing I can do to change your opinion even if it's a flat out false. Whether you chose to believe it or not is your choice. Stop projecting your won faults onto others though, dude.


Axslinger wrote a very accurate analysis of your situation and I would strongly encourage you to pay attention to it. You don't have any understanding of how affairs start or how marriages work and will carry these bad habits into your next relationship. Affairs start as opposite sex friendships, which you already know. Your romantic relationship with your own wife started the same way. You are romantically interested in this coworker and suddenly decided to get divorced, which is obviously related. Like Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and specialist in infidelity said:
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.

Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings.
here

I would point out that you are the least objective person on this thread. You, a person with a wrecked marriage, are lecturing someone with a happy marriage. Do you see how backwards that is? That is like the fat person lecturing the skinny person about diet habits.

You are getting great feedback from axslinger and I would encourage you to put aside your own FAILED ideas about marriage and keep an open mind. You are making critical mistakes.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Wife was served at work on Wednesday and signed the papers straight away. She finished moving her stuff out of my house last night. I'm not sad, I'm not happy. I just feel relieved that this part of my life is over. I never realized that for years when I'd come home from work I had a feeling of dread at interacting with her. She never really talked much about anything other than shopping and her TV shows, never really gave me any sort of intellectual stimulation and I had to seek that from friends. I haven't really talked to her much in the past two weeks and since our divorce is going to be relatively simple, I doubt we're going to have much interaction other than how to split assets, etc... My brother wanted to set me up on a date with one of his friends but I declined. I'm not quite ready to go there yet.

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Have a meeting set up a mediator next week. Our division of assets should be relatively simple as the house is in my name and was in the pre-nup (as well as my retirement accounts) she signed prior to marriage. According to my lawyer, she's entitled to alimony for about four-and-a-half years and then we're done. After everything is said and done, we just need to wait six months and the marriage will be dissolved. Overall it's been a pretty simple process.

Interestingly, she texted me out of the blue a few nights ago to ask how I would feel if she went out on a date. I basically replied that we are in the process of divorcing and in my eyes we're each single, she's free to date whoever she wants. Me on the other hand, I'm not ready to go there yet. Haven't even told any of my coworkers I'm divorcing yet. I may do it this weekend when we're all getting together at my house for a party.

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You haven't even told the coworker that has a crush on you?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
You haven't even told the coworker that has a crush on you?


Nope. She's coming to the party, so if I do decided to tell people, she'll find out with everyone else.

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You misunderstood my earlier point about her emotional needs if you think I'm projecting anything. The framework this marriage program is built upon says that you CANNOT answer for your wife the question of how well her needs were met. It would be like conducting your own performance evaluation at work. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the system we use here. It's not a matter of opinion.

Also, dating during the divorce process is adultery. When the divorce is finalized, sure go for it. But until then, you are still married to your wife. That is also part of the program here and also not a matter of opinion.

You have no interest in taking advice (even though you came here seeking it) if it doesn't agree with you, and I would predict that is going to make any marriage a difficult proposition for you until that attitude changes. Your poor wife probably does not even understand what is happening, which is why she wants to date you. That is a huge indicator of interest that you could work with if you had any real interest in saving your marriage.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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AviationNut1980, did you have a question about the Marriage Builders program? It doesn't appear you are here to seek solutions, but to blog about your own plan. The purpose of this forum is to help posters find solutions using MB concepts, it is not a blogging platform. Unless you have a question related to Marriage Builders, we will lock this thread. Thank you.


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Originally Posted by axslinger85
Also, dating during the divorce process is adultery. When the divorce is finalized, sure go for it. But until then, you are still married to your wife. That is also part of the program here and also not a matter of opinion.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. I don't view it as adultery because there is zero chance at reconciliation.

The party just ended and everyone had a blast. When people started asking about where my wife was, I just told that we're in the process of divorcing and that it'll be finalized in a few months.

The coworker ended up hanging around me most of the day and stayed a little later than everyone else. Nothing happened but we did just sit around and chat about stuff. Have a lunch set up for next week to hang out. I think we're both looking forward to i.

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