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This is interesting... My wife texted her longest term and best friend asking for some help in how to respond to my emails. In her text, my wife expressed that she was frustrated that I just wasn't getting it and that for her the marriage is completely over. So my wife sent her friend the emails that you've seen above. Here's her friend's response: "Oh {Wife's name}.. this is awful. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I think you've explained your side pretty clearly. But he's stuck on how awful divorce is for the kids (and the affair but whatever .. I think you should stop engaging on that topic. Ignore it every time he brings it up. It is no longer a topic for discussion because it doesn't matter. Its honestly not important anymore and he's using it against you. Just stop.). You need to show him how damaging it can be for the boys to live in a situation where one spouse is abusive to the other. He doesn't understand or believe that he abused you. His comments about why EMDR was recommended make that pretty clear. Focus on that. Do some research and show him that marriage in and of itself is not a recipe for happy childhood and well adjusted children. He may never have placed a hand on you (or did he?), but make no mistake - you've been a victim of domestic violence. https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/living/impact-of-domestic-violence-on-children-parents/index.htmlhttps://www.domesticviolenceroundtable.org/effect-on-children.htmlhttp://childprotectionresource.onli...e-social-services-will-take-my-children/(disclaimer - i've only skimmed those articles, but this was a very quick google search). This might feel a little dirty, but I think he needs to really see the other side of this. He's making it all about him and its not. Its about you and the boys. He might think its about him now because of the affair, but he was abusive long before you ever even met OM. He's using OM as a scapegoat for his own behavior. That's some [censored]. Its obvious from his replies that he has absolutely no respect for you. None. Your opinion does not matter. Your experience as a parent doesn't matter. Even though you've been mostly parenting alone since Jack was born, he seems to think he knows what's best for them more than you do. That is entirely unfair. You are a placeholder in his picket-fence'd dream. I don't think he loves you, I think he loves the *idea* of you. I know you want to be respectful and I think you can still do that, but you need to shift this conversation so you're on the offense because right now, you're just running defense and you've done nothing wrong (affair notwithstanding, that's a byproduct of a bad situation and you've taken responsibility for it, apologized and ended it. I am not saying it needs to be forgiven, but its not the reason for the divorce. OM has nothing to do with that, he was a catalyst but not a reason). Sorry if this is all over the place .. I honestly wanted to punch my screen a few times reading his replies and I admire your composure. I know I'm harsh but its because I care so much about you and I hate that you have to live like this. I hope I said something helpful here. I love you, doll. Please take care of yourself. You're doing right by those boys. They will appreciate what you've done for them. You really are a great mom and they will always know that. Be strong, call me if you ever need to - day or night. " This is interesting because: Her friend went to "domestic violence". Her friend acknowledges that my wife has never indicated that I have put a hand on her and I never have. When I think of domestic violence I also think of physical violence; but I can see how another person might consider non-physical abuse to be domestic violence, but her friend seems to be stretching mightily. My wife does consider that my angry outbursts and withdrawing/isolating as forms of "abuse" in our marriage. Her friend wants to make my wife believe that I am making this all about me...wha-what? And that I am using the OM as a scapegoat for my own damaging behaviors...huh? I think what we're seeing here is a run-away imagination on her friend's part. No where in my emails to my wife am I scapegoating the OM or even making it about just me. Lastly, her friend wants my wife to believe that I don't respect her or love her. Wow. My wife replied to her friend this way: "Thank for your words. They were not harsh, it was exactly what I needed to hear to maintain my motivation.
I will read those articles. I will not engage in conversation about the affair and will focus on breaking the abusive cycle.
I have known for a long time that Jon doesn't love me and I too have the dream of the white picket fence but in a different way then him.
Thank you for ypur love ans support!
love you" And her friend, in turn replied: "Everyone has dreams of their ideal life. But that doesn't mean that the current situation could be forced to fulfill that dream. That picket fence / happy family was never going to happen with you and {me}, you've known that for awhile, but it took some time for you to be strong enough to verbalize that. He needs to come to terms with the loss of this dream family because that ship has sailed.
Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help. And because I can't say it enough - please take care of yourself. Eat food, run, bike, meditate and eat more food. Please."
Last edited by DrDetroit24; 10/17/19 04:56 PM.
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I'm working from home this afternoon. Wife just got home from work and boys are gone. After a little bit, I went upstairs to go say hi and got a very chilly reception, in other words, she didn't look at me and used very few rods to reply to me when I asked her how her day was, how the classroom was, etc.
Though, when she first walked in she was surprised I was here because I had told her last night that I had "an appointment" this afternoon without specifying what, who, or where. She brought that up twice last night asking me once about the appointment and then making a comment about my "mystery appointment".
How should respond to these chilly interactions? When confronted with them I just assume that she doesn't want me to talk to her, doesn't want me bothering her.
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How should respond to these chilly interactions? When confronted with them I just assume that she doesn't want me to talk to her, doesn't want me bothering her. Just continue to be light and pleasant. If she gives you the cold shoulder, just continue being nice without being pushy. If she accuses you of "domestic violence" just remind her that you have never touched her. You feel you did a terrible job of making her happy in the past and don't want that old marriage back. You don't want a divorce, you want the chance to make her happy. If she wants a divorce there is nothing stopping her, of course. Don't get into a debate with her about it. It seems like she feels she needs to convince you of something and I find that puzzling. If she wants a divorce, she just has to file for it. I would remind her of that. There is no point in debating the issue.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My wife does consider that my angry outbursts and withdrawing/isolating as forms of "abuse" in our marriage. TRUE, it is. IT is also a huge lovebuster that causes a spouse to fall out of love. That can be changed if you just hang in there.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My wife does consider that my angry outbursts and withdrawing/isolating as forms of "abuse" in our marriage. TRUE, it is. IT is also a huge lovebuster that causes a spouse to fall out of love. That can be changed if you just hang in there. Just saw on my wife's phone that she is soliciting suggestions for an attorney from her friends...I didn't realize how many of them are divorced. One name in particular came up...guess I'll be making a call tomorrow.
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An email from ym wife tonight: The boys need to be told that I am pursuing a divorce before we go to class in Saturday. This leaves tomorrow as the last opportunity. I am open to telling them together or I can do it alone. Would you prefer to be there and be a part of this conversation? So, how to handle? On one hand, I want to have the conversation together so that I can clearly explain that mom is going to destroy the family rather than work on the marriage and to also explain that before we all found out about her affair with their friend's dad we were working on the marriage. On the other hand, I want to resist all divorce talk and put off this parenting class that she insists on going to on Saturday and to which I am refusing to go.
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An email from ym wife tonight: The boys need to be told that I am pursuing a divorce before we go to class in Saturday. This leaves tomorrow as the last opportunity. I am open to telling them together or I can do it alone. Would you prefer to be there and be a part of this conversation? So, how to handle? On one hand, I want to have the conversation together so that I can clearly explain that mom is going to destroy the family rather than work on the marriage and to also explain that before we all found out about her affair with their friend's dad we were working on the marriage. On the other hand, I want to resist all divorce talk and put off this parenting class that she insists on going to on Saturday and to which I am refusing to go. I don't think you can stop her from taking them to this class so you will want to be part of this discussion. I would have that discussion with her and tell the boys - VERY CALMLY - that you don't want a divorce and won't help her do this. Let them know that you will be fighting to keep their family together and won't help her destroy the family over her affair. Let them know you don't agree with the idea of taking them to a parenting class. When you reply to her, be very polite and don't give her a heads up about what you plan on saying.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And keep in mind what Dr. H says about love busting, if he were to give you a million dollars to stop love busting immediately, you’d do it, so just remember what you’re working towards. What fun light family time do you have planned this weekend?
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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DrD, I would also tell the boys during this discussion how much their mom's affair hurt you. They need to know how this has affected you.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I'm wondering if I should go to the parenting class? I agree with you Melody that the it would be confusing for me to say I want to work on the marriage but then attend a class with the kids that is built on the premise that the parents are divorcing.
Further, as we are in her emails to me and the email to her friend, my wife is saying that the affair is not the reason for the divorce. That it is the years of a bad marriage and multiple times in the past that she has leaned in and I have failed to follow through that has led here. As soon as I mention the affair to the boys she'll dismiss it.
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And keep in mind what Dr. H says about love busting, if he were to give you a million dollars to stop love busting immediately, you’d do it, so just remember what you’re working towards. What fun light family time do you have planned this weekend? No plans, yet. I woke up this morning thinking about what we could do. Thinking of a hike Sunday after church,but it's supposed to be raining.
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I'm wondering if I should go to the parenting class? I agree with you Melody that the it would be confusing for me to say I want to work on the marriage but then attend a class with the kids that is built on the premise that the parents are divorcing. I sure wouldn't. That would give credence to her objective of busting up the family, which is not in their best interest. Further, as we are in her emails to me and the email to her friend, my wife is saying that the affair is not the reason for the divorce. That it is the years of a bad marriage and multiple times in the past that she has leaned in and I have failed to follow through that has led here. As soon as I mention the affair to the boys she'll dismiss it. ALL affairees say the affair is not the reason. They blame the demise of the marriage on the spouse to keep him off balance. You can dismiss it by saying that she never wanted a divorce UNTIL she had an affair. The proof is in the pudding. I would also add that you suspect the reason she wants out now is so she can hook up with "Sally's husband" in the future. A bad marriage can be fixed, after all. What other reason would a spouse need to get a divorce from a spouse who is perfectly willing to do what it takes to fix the marriage unless it is to be with her OM? They are willing to destroy 2 families so they can carry on their affair. <-----SAY THAT. During this discussion I would refer to the OM as "Sally's husband." [insert her correct name] Keep it front and center that this is someone else's husband that she has been messing with. ALSO, if she blames the affair on you, you need to be clear and say "there is no excuse for having an affair." Kids understand that. Your kids are not allowed to blame others for their bad behavior and they will not like seeing their mother do this. And you can print this up and say this in front of your boys: "This is from a noted clinical psychologist who specializes in saving marriages from infidelity" He said: I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.
Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings." Here is the article: https://www.marriagebuilders.com/coping-with-infidelity-beginning-part-1.htm
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yeah, I need to hit that note tonight, that when my wife asked to be separated she was in the midst of a months-long affair and that divorce only came up after me and our children discovered the secret affair with OMWs husband.
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Called and scheduled a consultation with the attorney that two of my wife's friends recommended to her. $300, pfft.
Going to change direct deposit today and use this weekend to square away automated billing so I don't mess up any of our payments.
Hard convo tonight after dinner.
Plan an easy, light family activity for the weekend...maybe we'll go get pumpkins (although wife already asked boys if they were interested in carving pumpkins at her friends - a friend she isn't touch with much that she knows from childhood and isn't tuned in to our situation). I wonder if I should accept if she invites me along.
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Yeah, I need to hit that note tonight, that when my wife asked to be separated she was in the midst of a months-long affair and that divorce only came up after me and our children discovered the secret affair with OMWs husband. Just make sure your boys understand this. If you don't tell them the truth about this she will be free to lie to them and blame it all on you. She is clearly minimizing the effect of the affair and exaggerating the bad state of the marriage. You can admit that you had issues with angry outbursts and didn't do a good job of showing care, but those are all problems that can be fixed. In fact, you have eliminated angry outbursts. I would be throwing it out there that you suspect there is a plan for her and the OM to hook up in the future and that is why she wants to dump you. That will put HER in a position to deny it in front of her kids. Then if it is true, she will have a very hard time ever hooking up with him in the future.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Called and scheduled a consultation with the attorney that two of my wife's friends recommended to her. $300, pfft.
Going to change direct deposit today and use this weekend to square away automated billing so I don't mess up any of our payments.
Hard convo tonight after dinner.
Plan an easy, light family activity for the weekend...maybe we'll go get pumpkins (although wife already asked boys if they were interested in carving pumpkins at her friends - a friend she isn't touch with much that she knows from childhood and isn't tuned in to our situation). I wonder if I should accept if she invites me along. YES
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Called and scheduled a consultation with the attorney that two of my wife's friends recommended to her. $300, pfft. You did this? Or she did this?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Called and scheduled a consultation with the attorney that two of my wife's friends recommended to her. $300, pfft. You did this? Or she did this? I did this. And you're likely going to ask why. First, to hamper her ability to secure legal counsel. Second, this is a really good attorney and if we end up in divorce then I want this kind of attorney who will advocate for me keeping the home and custody of the kids.
Last edited by DrDetroit24; 10/18/19 11:16 AM.
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Called and scheduled a consultation with the attorney that two of my wife's friends recommended to her. $300, pfft. You did this? Or she did this? I did this. So what is your strategy here? To prevent her from using him?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Called and scheduled a consultation with the attorney that two of my wife's friends recommended to her. $300, pfft. You did this? Or she did this? I did this. So what is your strategy here? To prevent her from using him? See above. You replied before I finished revising my post. But, yeah, in part...
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