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So, narrowed down to mobistealth, mspy, and Flexispy.
Flexispy is first to go...some features that I like require rooting and having spent months following whether LG G8s from Sprint can be rooted, I know that they cannot be.
Mobistealth has most of the features I think I want, such as text and call history and FB/Instagram/Snapchat logging. Missing skypechat logging, but I can live with that. Does Gmail logging, but while other companies make a distinction between Gmail and Email, these guys don't. But I have 24/7 access to wife's yahoo email.
Mspy also requires rooting for many items like FB/Instagram/Snapchat, so it's out, too.
So, Mobistealth looks like the best choice for me. 3 months for $85 with a discount code. Can I suggest that you try out the one you decide to buy on your device first? That way you can iron out the kinks. Make notes about what you did. You will be nervous when you put it on your wife's phone so good to have written instructions at your elbow.
3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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Respectfully, with your marriage on the line, is now the time to quibble over some reviews? Webwatcher has been very useful for many on this forum who needed to get the intel to save their marriages. The two hardest things that most betrayed spouses find are snooping and exposure. It's not easy, it's distasteful, it's scary, I get it. But you need to get over your fear or your conflict avoidance or whatever and get it done.
You have the best advising you (MelodyLane), and she can tell that you don't have the whole story. I can tell, too. Believe me, as another betrayed husband, I can spot the signs. If you want the best chance to end your WW's affair, you'll avail yourself of the tools needed to get the job done. You've received recommendations for WebWatcher and Flexispy, both of which have been used successfully by many here. We can only help you so much, you have to help yourself, too.
Best of luck. I think it's obvious that I am taking the suggestion seriously. I've looked and researched several different programs and gone after recent user reviews of each. With respect to webwatcher, we're not really talking about "some reviews". Heck, Melody was at least partly shocked by what she saw despite having used the same software before. I'm not finding any recent positive experiences of users using webwatcher or very many of these programs. I'm not quibbling, I'm interested in not giving away a $100. Many of us here have used webwatcher for YEARS and never had an issue. But it never occurred to me to go leave a good review on PC Magazine. I never knew about that article. But who would know? Other spyware makers. You are not going to find a spyware - or anything else - with no bad reviews. But you do have to get this on her phone. It is obvious to all of us that she is hiding something.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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So, Mobistealth looks like the best choice for me. 3 months for $85 with a discount code. Good deal!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I didn't get to tell my my boys that I though their mom was pushing so hard for divorce now so that she set herself up to hook up with the OMWs wife. After she broke the glass, it was clear that my oldest boy was getting very emotional and we needed to take a break. Meanwhile, in the kitchen, my wife was crying and talking out loud about how bad the marriage has been, that I am a liar, etc. I think this went extremely well. It sure didn't go the way she expected! She had fantasized about feeding a nice, clean little story to her sons, with your help. You burst her fantasy by telling your sons the truth. Her fantasy is crumbling so this will be a good opportunity for you to show her that you care. She needs to be able to envision a happy future with you. How would she support herself if you divorced? Has she talked about her plan for that?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I didn't get to tell my my boys that I though their mom was pushing so hard for divorce now so that she set herself up to hook up with the OMWs wife. After she broke the glass, it was clear that my oldest boy was getting very emotional and we needed to take a break. Meanwhile, in the kitchen, my wife was crying and talking out loud about how bad the marriage has been, that I am a liar, etc. I think this went extremely well. It sure didn't go the way she expected! She had fantasized about feeding a nice, clean little story to her sons, with your help. You burst her fantasy by telling your sons the truth. Her fantasy is crumbling so this will be a good opportunity for you to show her that you care. She needs to be able to envision a happy future with you. How would she support herself if you divorced? Has she talked about her plan for that? Not specifically. A month ago when she was getting started looking for a new job and applying to jobs she was very emotional,worried and anxious about supporting herself and the boys. Several times she was visibly upset and was crying about it. When I discovered her trying to plan that picnic lunch to "review her resume" with the OM, we had that long conversation wherein she told me that she thought I wanted her to be unemployed and unable to support herself. So supporting herself and the boys is an important and emotional issue for her. I'm hoping for another opportunity like last night to arise wherein I can express again to the boys that we can fix the things I did in the marriage and drop the part about her wanting to divorce now so that she hook up with the OM later. Speaking of the OM, I did find out his mother's name. So now to figure out how to contact.
Last edited by DrDetroit24; 10/19/19 09:03 AM.
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[
Not specifically. A month ago when she was getting started looking for a new job and applying to jobs she was very emotional,worried and anxious about supporting herself and the boys. Several times she was visibly upset and was crying about it.
When I discovered her trying to plan that picnic lunch to "review her resume" with the OM, we had that long conversation wherein she told me that she thought I wanted her to be unemployed and unable to support herself. What is interesting about all this is her perception that she can't do things on her own. In almost every step here, she behaves like she has to have your help to achieve her goals and if you don't help her she behaves like you are stopping her. You don't have the power to prevent her from getting a job and you don't have the power to prevent her from getting a divorce. Do you have an explanation for why she thinks like that? Have you both had equal power in the marriage? Has she ever lived on her own? Speaking of the OM, I did find out his mother's name. So now to figure out how to contact. Good job! Do you have their address? Do they live in your town?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No explanation. Before we married she was very independent with a full time job, had her own car, bought her own house...but she also had a full time teaching job.
In college, she worked multiple jobs to pay for school and avoid incurring debt.
So what you're pointing here is unusual. On the other, she's a realist in many ways. She recognizes that she chose to be a sahm and that meant foregoing a career or full time employment and that necessarily means that she is unable to provide and sustain a lifestyle as she has while married to me.
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No explanation. Before we married she was very independent with a full time job, had her own car, bought her own house...but she also had a full time teaching job.
In college, she worked multiple jobs to pay for school and avoid incurring debt.
So what you're pointing here is unusual. On the other, she's a realist in many ways. She recognizes that she chose to be a sahm and that meant foregoing a career or full time employment and that necessarily means that she is unable to provide and sustain a lifestyle as she has while married to me. Ok, so that makes me think she is concocting her own obstacles and doesn't really want a divorce. That would explain why she keeps talking about a "separation" [pretend] and a divorce but never takes any real action. I think you are well positioned to attract her back. I think the discussion last night really helped burst her bubble. I feel very sad that your boys have to see this, but am relieved that you are there to tell them the truth. If not for that, they would be so very confused. I would try to speak to her today and show some empathy for her pain. Tell her you hate to see her so torn up. She will blame you, of course, but you can show her empathy and reiterate that you don't want that old marriage back. She needs to be convinced that you really could change this time. She will scoff at you at first, but you will plant the seed. She needs to hear WHY it would be different this time.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Have you both had equal decision making power in your marriage?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No explanation. Before we married she was very independent with a full time job, had her own car, bought her own house...but she also had a full time teaching job.
In college, she worked multiple jobs to pay for school and avoid incurring debt.
So what you're pointing here is unusual. On the other, she's a realist in many ways. She recognizes that she chose to be a sahm and that meant foregoing a career or full time employment and that necessarily means that she is unable to provide and sustain a lifestyle as she has while married to me. Ok, so that makes me think she is concocting her own obstacles and doesn't really want a divorce. That would explain why she keeps talking about a "separation" [pretend] and a divorce but never takes any real action. I think you are well positioned to attract her back. I think the discussion last night really helped burst her bubble. I feel very sad that your boys have to see this, but am relieved that you are there to tell them the truth. If not for that, they would be so very confused. I would try to speak to her today and show some empathy for her pain. Tell her you hate to see her so torn up. She will blame you, of course, but you can show her empathy and reiterate that you don't want that old marriage back. She needs to be convinced that you really could change this time. She will scoff at you at first, but you will plant the seed. She needs to hear WHY it would be different this time. Hence, I need to be able to describe why it would be different.
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Have you both had equal decision making power in your marriage? For the most part.
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[
Hence, I need to be able to describe why it would be different. Do you know how to do that?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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By this time, my wife was crying when she finally got up from the table and while clearing some glasses started in how I've lied for 16 years in our marriage about making it better. . I think this should be a focus of yours, how you have tried to make it better and have failed. She needs to know that, given a chance, you won't fail again. And here's why: you never had an effective PLAN to change in the past. You probably wasted time at useless marriage counselors focusing on "resolving conflict" [their favorite subject] instead of learning new marriage skills. Now might be a good time to speak to her and show empathy for her pain. At that time, you can AGREE you have not done a good in certain areas [name some things that make her unhappy] and that you understand now what needs to be done. Tell her you didn't have an effective plan in the past but now you do. You can show her this article: HOW TO CREATE YOUR OWN PLAN TO RESOLVE CONFLICTS AND RESTORE LOVE
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[
Hence, I need to be able to describe why it would be different. Do you know how to do that? Not really. What is different now is that: I understand that I am suffering from depression which is the underlying basis for the anger, low self esteem, and the withdrawal/isolation; I'm actively treating (depression meds) and working (continuing IC) to learn and employ approaches to process my depression; While I thought I was protecting myself via anger and withdrawing/isolating behaviors, I was really hurting my family and those that I love; I'm invested in and willing to engage in the MB approach to cultivating and protecting a loving marriage (she's familiar with Harley as had read HNHN years ago); I am living the changes I have committed to making and have been consistently for several months now.
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My wife and our boys are at the parenting class right now
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[
Hence, I need to be able to describe why it would be different. Do you know how to do that? Not really. What is different now is that: I understand that I am suffering from depression which is the underlying basis for the anger, low self esteem, and the withdrawal/isolation; I'm actively treating (depression meds) and working (continuing IC) to learn and employ approaches to process my depression; While I thought I was protecting myself via anger and withdrawing/isolating behaviors, I was really hurting my family and those that I love; I'm invested in and willing to engage in the MB approach to cultivating and protecting a loving marriage (she's familiar with Harley as had read HNHN years ago); I am living the changes I have committed to making and have been consistently for several months now. Ok, I think this is a good start, but I would leave out blaming your depression. Depression does not cause angry outbursts or punishing strategies like withdrawal. Angry outbursts and withdrawal are just bad marriage strategies that destroy the love in marriage. Which you know. I would use some of this in a discussion with her: "I'm actively treating (depression meds) and working (continuing IC) to learn and employ approaches to process my depression;
While I thought I was protecting myself via anger and withdrawing/isolating behaviors, I was really hurting my family and those that I love; Polish this up with "I am taking depression meds to treat my depression and have STOPPED my angry outbursts and punishing strategies like withdrawal by employing Marriage Builders concepts about Lovebusters. I am committed to restoring our marriage using these concepts." working (continuing IC) to learn and employ approaches to process my depression I have no idea what this even means to "process my depression." What she needs to hear is that you will STOP ANGRY OUTBURSTS and lovebusting strategies like withdrawal. She shouldn't even consider pursuing a marriage with you unless she hears something much more definitive than you are "processing depression." Please don't speak to her like that.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My wife and our boys are at the parenting class right now That gives you time to prepare yourself for a talk with her.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Do you see how Melody's changes to your explanation are solution oriented? Action means more than words. Please plan some fun light family time together to build some deposits. You read that article Melody posted right? What are some concrete actions you can take to show care? Melody can he do things like get flowers now or is that on hold until after the NC letter?
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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Ok, I think this is a good start, but I would leave out blaming your depression. Depression does not cause angry outbursts or punishing strategies like withdrawal. Angry outbursts and withdrawal are just bad marriage strategies that destroy the love in marriage. Which you know. I would use some of this in a discussion with her:
In the book, I Dont Want to Talk About It", the author indicated that depression does manifest itself in many different ways, including anger, isolation, and other behaviors. Maybe I am misunderstanding there. Nonetheless, I see your point. My wife, for the longest time, tried to get me to see someone for depression and treatment for depression and I resisted. So i thought it would be important to address that part of me. Perhaps I can do so without linking it to the anger and withdrawal/isolation and explain that part of what is different now is that I am aware of my depression and am treating it and have learned that angry outburts and withdrawal/isolation are marriage killers. I'm committed to following the MB concepts to eliminate angry outbursts and avoid using withdrawal/isolation and replace with the MB concepts.
[quote]I have no idea what this even means to "process my depression." What she needs to hear is that you will STOP ANGRY OUTBURSTS and lovebusting strategies like withdrawal. She shouldn't even consider pursuing a marriage with you unless she hears something much more definitive than you are "processing depression." Please don't speak to her like that. I see. I'm short-handing something here. By "process my depression" I mean employing techniques to manage and mitigate depression. And that means techniques like somatic exercises and relaxation. It also means the techniques I'm using to address the anger and withdrawal, again, because my reading and IC indicate that my anger and withdrawals are linked to the depression. The anger covers up the depression, i.e., I get to escape that depression by being angry; and the withdrawal/isolation permits me to avoid, escape depression by freezing or getting smaller and waiting for the sh!tstorm my behavior has caused to go away. Nonetheless, the key here is to emphasize that I am eliminating angry outbursts and not engaging in withdrawal/isolating behaviors.
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Do you see how Melody's changes to your explanation are solution oriented? Action means more than words. Please plan some fun light family time together to build some deposits. You read that article Melody posted right? What are some concrete actions you can take to show care? Melody can he do things like get flowers now or is that on hold until after the NC letter? Thaks, NED. The flowers are a definite no, they are not a thing for my wife who sees them as a waste. Quality family time is far more important and, when things were good, spending time alone was also really important. I'm reading the article now and working up something. I've mentioned to her and the boys that I want to take them to the pumpkin farm today to pick out pumpkins and to also hit up a local arboretum for a short hike to get us out of the house and away from screens (another important thing for my wife).
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