YES, I KNOW THIS. I know I look stupid but I actually read the articles I post to you. Like I told you before, her lovebank is CLOSED to you, but you need to look for opportunities as they present themselves. She will initially reject your overtures, but the seed will be planted.


I read the damn article and I know your situation. So stop telling me an article doesn't apply just because each and every aspect of the case study does not match yours. You are lacking in the ability to show affection as evidenced by your wife's feeling that you don't care. This seems completely foreign to you. I want you to learn how to be affectionate and look for opportunities as they arise. *IF* her affair is over [which we wouldn't know because you have not followed through with the advice to get spyware on her phone and haven't exposed to the OM's family] she will gradually become more receptive to your overtures.

I need for you to become PROACTIVE instead of looking for excuses to not follow through. FIND CREATIVE WAYS TO MAKE IT WORK. Go read the thread of wifedivorcing again and see how he attracted his angry, checked out wife. And yes, I KNOW your situation is not EXACTLY like his, after all he is a policeman and you are not.


I think that is a good idea. Be prepared for her to throw them in the trash and don't be discouraged. As the affair dies, if it has ended [we don't know] she will remember gestures like this.

Another very damaging aspect I see is that you don't take her complaints seriously and have been dismissing them. When a complaint is dismissed it is never solved. I am concerned about what she has been told about your angry outbursts being caused by depression because she is surely thinking this is hopeless. What is she supposed to do, for example, if you get depressed again? I think she views this situation as hopeless. That's why you have to be very, very consistent. Look for opportunities to show empathy and affection as they arise and most certainly look for an opportunity to explain to her that regardless of depression, you have taken steps to ensure you will NEVER have another angry outburst. She needs to know that you will take her complaints seriously.

Thanks, NED. I need some help thinking about what these actions would be. In other words, what does this look like onna daily basis?

Melody, I wasn't suggesting that the article didn't apply. I was wondering how it applied. In other words, was the article supposed to provide examples of affection to help thinking ways to be affectionate? Of course, their situation isn't the same on every way, but to me there was a crucial difference, Roseanne was willing to tell Ted how to show her affection that was meaningful to her. I don't have the same thing. So, were the ways in which Roseanne was describing affection supposed to serve as examples for me to follow or as a starting point for me to think about affection generally and from their generate ideas for affection?

I want to follow through. I want to take action. The problem that I am having is that affection for me has always been about physical touch which would lead to intimacy. So I am having trouble thinking about affection that doesn't involve physical touch. My experience with my wife is that gifts and cards and flowers are just not important to her, so I overlook things like those instinctually. But as you noted above, that's because those things lose importance when the relationship is strong. Now, though, maybe leaving those little notes expressing my appreciation for something she has done or expressing my love for her are important.

You are right that I am lacking the ability to show affection. I seem to lack the ability to even think about what affection might look like. It can't just be holding hands or snuggling and it's not just buy flowers. So, I start my search for how to show affection.

I think you're 100 percent spot on. I have made excuses for my anger to argue that it was justified or that I didn't or couldn't control my anger. You called it an indulgence and as I have digested that overnight I see your point more clearly.

My wife is exactly right. I did choose to be angry. I did choose to withdraw and isolate myself. No matter what my justification was, I still chose those things which also means that I did choose to damage my relationships with my wife and children and damage the family.

Would an opportunity to show empathy and affection be whenever she tells me how badly I damaged the marriage and family? When she tells me that she felt lonely, unsafe, and uncared for?

My instinct every time is to say I am sorry for the behavior, sorry for how it made her feel, and that I am working on fixing things. And, inevitably, I end up trying to defend myself or persuade her that it won't happen again.

I need to also look up how to show empathy.

YES. It is important that you understand how to show affection and look for opportunities. You can also look for opportunities to express to her that you know you have done a very poor job of showing affection and that you have made her feel "uncared for." She needs to know that you have had this realization and know how much it damaged the marriage. In the meantime, you can look for ways to do nice, thoughtful things for her.

When this comes up again, just AGREE with her. Say the lightbulb has gone off and you see now how you blamed your depression for bad behavior, making her miserable. She needs to know you understand this NOW and are committed to NEVER having another angry outburst or hide behind withdrawal. In this context you want to emphasize that you don't want the old marriage back where didn't listen to her complaints and weren't making her happy.


Start by eliminating language like "I am working on." That is bs talk for people who don't want to change. You have to say I HAVE CHANGED.

Can I create opportunities by, for example, after the boys are to be to just quickly sit down and tell her that I know I did a very poor job of showing affection and caring for her? Is that too out of the blue and I should just wait for her to comment and then say the above?

I kinda wish I could write a letter rather than talk because it seems inevitable that as soon as I say something and she replies I move into defense mode.

I really like your idea of writing a letter. That might be the better alternative for you because you can think without getting defensive.

And I want to warn you that in her frame of mind, nothing you do will be right or acceptable. But these gestures will mean alot if and when her affair ends. You are planting seeds and painting a picture right now. But you have to be prepared to take steps that will have no immediate return.

You can also reach out to her family and friends and ask for help with concrete ways to show her you’ve changed. I hope you at a minimum got the card and flowers today, made your plan for the rest of exposure hopefully tomorrow, and downloaded the app because these actions will shift your thinking. If you don’t take prompt action after telling your kids you are fighting for the marriage days ago, you’re going to lose their trust in you to protect their family.

My brother is in a similar situation and he started taking their DD to the park so she can get a break, taking on household chores, making dinners and hot sauces from scratch that she can reuse, flowers weekly, helping DD with homework, packing DD lunch, cleaning the fridge, sweeping the porch so she can have a nice place to relax, washing his clothes, ordering matching T-shirts for her and DD with their favorite character, arranging the sitter for when they go out. It’s not hard for him to figure it out because she’d asked for help in these ways hundreds of times. What does your W ask from you outside of the mediation stuff?

DrD,

Like MelodyLane said, writing a letter is a great idea. It gives you a chance to carefully word what you want to say, unlike being put on the defensive when you try to say it in person.

Where are you with installing that software on her phone? You need to get this done asap, you need to know the complete truth!

Your getting lots of great suggestions from posters! You can do this!

Getting ready to leave work and hit the store for some simple flowers and a card. In the card, I want to write something such as:

Wife, it hurts to see and hear you describe how my destructive behaviors have caused you pain and left you feeling lonely. I hope you'll let me make it up to you in the future. All my love, Me.

Edit - I don't like my brain sometimes. I've spent 15 minutes just thinking about whether to get roses or another type of flower overthinking what or how she might interpret the type of flower. Just buy the flowers...

Remember what Melody said, I hope you will let me is akin to I am trying. You are living your values because this is who you have changed to be. Make it action oriented, you family needs this from you.

It hurts to see how my destructive behaviors had caused you and the children pain and left you feeling lonely in the past. I have changed and I am committed to consistently showing you my love for you with extraordinary care in the present and through the years ahead. All my love, Me.

Following your thread I am very concerned that you have not put much effort in finding who OM's friends, relatives and family are. I feel you are paying attention to smaller things than exposure to OM's side. This exposure is critical. Exposure will probably save your marriage than the other smaller things you are investing in. Not to say these small things are not important but the importance of this exposure is massive.

Let's say you tell yourself that you will find these people no matter what it takes then you will actually find them. Make it a super goal.

You also know the OMW's name and circles. You may even get to know more her circles. Somehow there should be an intersection with OM's circle of friends, family and and relatives. Others who did not have such plenty info have found OM's friends.

You may do all the following:

Online:
Search for him on...
1. Instagram - find who likes his post
2. Linkedin - find his colleagues, friends and relatives
3. Find the company he works for. Then look for some people who work there. Some of them will be his friends
4. https://www.people-search.org/ search for him and results come with relatives
5. Pinterest, Twitter and every that is online.

6. Repeat the same for OMW except for work. You may find some other are his relatives or friends. People who like her posts maybe friends or relatives.

Offline:
7. Also if you are in a small town/city you will be able to find. Even big city.

8. Hire a PI to get you info. and friends and relatives about him, and to follow him,

9. Do it yourself in addition

10. Find the company he works for. Then look for some people who work there. Some of them will be his friends. There could be an after work lace they go to, vendors, lunch, etc.

10. Find a friend who can spark a conversation with OM in a bar, gym, cafe restaurant or where ever he goes or is to find out where he works, he went to high school, graduation year, same with college

11. Dig into their wedding. Who was there at the wedding, etc.

You can find his friends. It is very small world nowadays. Make it a mission and you will succeed. Getting this done is key to saving your marriage.

DrD,

WierdSituation has provided excellent suggestions for tracking down OM's family and friends! The following are even MORE methods to help you track them down. When you use these, keep Wierd's suggestion of learning the OM's or OMW's circle of friends and family. With a little effort you'll be able to track these people down, including phone numbers, email addresses, social media accounts, and even physical addresses. If you WANT to find them, the resources that Wierd suggested and those below WILL provide them with a little effort.

Try looking up the OM, his grandparents, or any other known relatives on one of the following sites, this will give you a list of names to check against. (i.e. it shows list of people who might be related to the person you searched for). These sites (and others) will give you age range for individuals, so you can further narrow it down. They usually list cities the person probably lived in. If you know where his parents might live but not their full name, search their town name and "assessors database". Most towns have their tax assessments searchable online. You can use these to search for last name and town name. If they have an uncommon last name, they'll be easier to track down. If you're certain of the name of a relative but cannot get a phone# or email address, the tax assessors database can turn up a physical address. You can then mail them a letter.

http://mylife.com
http://whitepages.com
http://intellius.com
http://spokeo.com
https://www.anywho.com/whitepages

Some of the search engines on those sites aren't great, or they provide less functionality without a paid subscription than they used to. I find that using google to search these sites can be more useful.

For example, search for this from google: site:http://spokeo.com "babe ruth"

You can search MyLife by using this format: https://www.mylife.com/john-smith/ (that will list all John Smith's in the United States, then you can click on a State to further refine the search).

You can use a combination of those five sites to find multiple phone#'s, email addresses, possible relatives, etc. If one site (say Spokeo) gives a better list of relatives, you might find that a different site like MyLife gives better details about those identified individuals.

Some of those sites have low-cost monthly subscriptions that will give you better search capabilities, and more detail including background reports. Even more detailed background reports (such as a country-wide background report) are available for more, usually $40 and under).

With a little effort, it's remarkable how easy it can be to find people via public sources.

Wow, thank you all for the help!

I've got work to do tonight.

Last night and flowers didn't happen. Left work late, didn't want to be home late (that's a LB), so will do so this evening.

Yesterday morning, I sent my wife a text simply saying that I hope her day was going well, that the boys got to school on time, and I'd be home by 6. She didn't reply to it, as she hasn't replied to the last 3 similar texts. If I continue texting like this, is it a good think tondo even if she's not replying?

I would send a few texts per day, regardless of her lack of response. It's thoughtful to ask about her day and to let her know your sons got to school and that kind of thing.

Other ways to be affectionate without being physical:
Hold her chair out for her
Open car door
Carry packages and any other heavy objects
If you know she needs something from the store, pick it up for her
Check her tires
Smile at her
Make dinner and serve it
Wash up after dinner
Keep your eyes and ears open for anything she says she might need doing, and then do it quietly.
Affection is showing your wife that you are there for her. In a great relationship, it's a kiss, holding hands, sure, but it's also the above things.

Don't ever say you are "working on becoming better," or that you want a better marriage. Just BE it. Act like a man in a great marriage. Own where you have failed and immediately work on those. Words are very irritating to someone who has little hope for a good marriage with a previously angry depressed person. Never defend yourself; just apologize for being angry in the past. When she says what an awful marriage you had, just say, "I'm really sorry I wasn't the husband I should have been."

Got home with the flowers and am hesitating to give them to her in front of the kids and a couple of their friends. Ugh

Or just put them in a vase and give it a nice place where she will see them.