Forget about any discipline right now. No chores! No discipline at all. Just do fun things with them. Take them fishing and hunting. You are in a very precarious situation that could hurt you in any possible divorce action. If you have any conflict with your son, your wife could use this against you. <---Dr. Harley told me this on a phone call today. If you want further help you can email him.

"You have the biggest test of all time. You must control your temper at all cost. Your wife will be disrespectful and try to get you to lose your temper. You can't lose your temper ever. You are not a wimp but you must walk away when she makes you angry. Be a PLAN A husband. I applaud him for exposing the affair." <----Dr Harley said this

"The OM cares more about himself than he does your wife. If you give him trouble when you discover contact, he will run." Dr Harley

Dr Harley feels that your wife will use this conflict to get 100% custody of your sons. And if your son is angry at you over the conflict he will say anything in an interview. Kids will even make things up if they are angry at the parent. This is a very fragile, unusual situation so you need to be careful. Rather, put 100% of your efforts into saving your marriage via Plan A and busting up the affair.

I need help with Plan A. Ill re-read this thread, but I'm just not getting it.

How did you act when you were dating?

Found out tonight that my wife scheduled a counseling appointment for my oldest son. Wtf? I knew she was calling our insurance provider for a referral, but that was for the youngest one.

When I asked her about it her reply was that she told she was calling and I explained I believed that meant to get a referral only. I asked her if they scheduled the appointment without knowing both parents consented and she said yes. I told her that we should have talked about it to agree on why he was going and what we expected to get out of it. She simply replied by asking why else would she be calling for a referral if not to schedule the appointment? I explained that once we go the referral then we'd research a bit about the counselor we were referred to and if we were both comfortable then we'd schedule an appointment for all 3 of us. Ugh.

We went out on dates, spent time with her extended family, spent time with our friends. That's not available.

We talked...and talked...and talked...about all sorts of stuff.

And lots of physical touch

My youngest had that electric fence personality Dr. H writes about. She could only do chores if I was doing it alongside her the first few times until she got the hang of it. Otherwise it was too frustrating for her and she acted like your son. I’m the same way, I get aggravated when I have to do tasks that confuse me. At work the stuff I don’t know how to do I do last after all the things I do know how to do.

You can do this plan A thing. How about sharing a plan for the next few days, to help you get in the habit?

My wife and I worked on finances a bit tonight and seemed to go well. But when we were done I had asked her about the plans for Thanksgiving. In August she booked a "family" camping trip to a local campground (she loves this outdoors stuff). As we've gotten closer to Thanksgiving she's mentioned that she might change the plans. This started when my cousin moved out this way and my wife thought about inviting her, her boyfriend, and a friend of theirs to our place for dinner. I mentioned the camping trip and my wife said it's cheap to cancel. This was last week. Tonight, though...well, nowhere good.

She indicated that she didn't know what to do and then said that she didn't care. I suggested that she did care otherwise she wouldn't have planned a camping trip for the family. She talked about how she doesn't like this holiday (and she hasn't since we moved here for a variety of reasons, including, away from her parents, siblings, and extended family; no family out here; and one time I didn't go to a friends Thanksgiving because I was depressed and chose not to go) and how for ten years Thanksgiving has sucked. I suggested that we change that this year and have a good one. She smirked at me.

When I left the table she started crying and I came back a few minutes later and asked how she was doing. She replied not ok. She went on to say that she's not ok and that she cannot be happy around me, that I am the problem. Further that I broke her and she can't be whole around me. I just listened, but said nothing. I had no idea what to say.

I'd love to share a "plan" but I don't even know how to think about one let alone formulate one.

Perhaps, given our convo tonight about Thanksgiving, I just take over or lead the way. Ask her to cancel the camping the trip and the boys and I plan Thanksgiving day (menu, games, etc.); I'll take Friday after Thanksgiving off and the boys and I can plan a great day outdoors. She's been the planner in the family for everything forever, so...

Over the next couple of days - well, she's going with her teacher friends for Happy Hour (God I hate that frigging nonsense) tomorrow night, so Im on the hook for dinner. Since I'm working from home on Friday, I'll go to the store during the day and get fixings for supper and surprise the family with a nice dinner. For the weekend...I have a lot of work downstairs on the remodel to do, but maybe squeeze in a family outdoor activity on Saturday.

Were you pleasant and attractive? Or were you combative and argumentative?

While you can't meet her needs, you MUST be as pleasant and inviting as possible. Look for opportunities to chat and avoid lovebusters at all cost. But I have told you this many times.

I would be careful speaking to her like this. It would infuriate me if my husband told me what we are going to be doing. Maybe you didn't word it like that, but I get the sense that your wife feels you call the shots and tell her what to do. [she does do this to you too] Rather, I would approach it like this: "I would really appreciate it if we were on the same page before we take our son to a counselor." ASK for her agreement, don't TELL her how it is going to be. I can just feel her BRISTLE at some of these conversations and you can't afford anymore lovebusters.

I see your point and she has brought up that issue that I run things, it's my show, etc. Of course, that's not my intent, but I see how when I inject myself into situations or express what I thought or should have happened can be seen as directing or instructing.

We didn't get to a resolution last night. I ended by saying that I'd like to talk more about so we're both on the same page.

Pleasant, fun, calm, laid back...

Another comment that she dropped last night while telling me that she cannot be happy or whole with me was that she's now stuck in a marriage and life she doesn't want because she cannot avoid a divorce which in her mind is a $13,000 endeavor.

As my counselor and I have talked, it's in these moments that I just freeze. I don't argue, I don't offer solutions, but I also don't express empathy or validate her feelings...and why would I in this type of scenario where she's clearly blaming me. In other words, she's stuck because I won't divorce her not will I do mediation, hence, in her mind, she is simply stuck.

What she thinks at this point is irrelevant. She is in the affair fog.
This is a great opportunity to turn this around.

Would she be willing to fill out the love busters questionaire with you?

You can practice saying things like: "I am sorry that you feel so unhappy."
Don't promise to change.
Show her you HAVE changed.

Ok, but the way you worded this very much was telling her how it was going to be. So, if that's not your intent, you are probably arbitrarily infuriating her. You flat out told her how it was going to be: "I explained that once we go the referral then we'd research a bit about the counselor we were referred to and if we were both comfortable then we'd schedule an appointment for all 3 of us." A better way to approach this is: "how would you feel about researching the counselor together before we go and coming to an agreement about what our objective is?"

Yes, the way I worded it doesn't accurately reflect what I actually said. I did say that once she got the referral, I thought that we would research...

Either way, though, it's not collaborative. It's not inviting a mutual discussion.

Sheesh, man. Wife goes out tonight with her teacher friends for happy hour. She comes home and the boys and I are having dinner. Okey-dokey. I ask my wife how her chiropractor appointment went and she tells the boys and I that she has 2 ribs out of place because she sleeps on the couch.

We're supposed to change next weekend to get her off of the couch, but the basement won't be done in time.