Hi all,

I've posted here before under the name "HersheyKiss" in case anyone wants to combine my threads.

I'm writing for support. After a 2 year separation, my husband and I decided we wanted to try again. We enrolled in the MB Online program at the end of December. He has been back in my life for almost 4 months now but things are not going well.

I don't have any support with my marriage outside of the MB program, so I have no one to bounce ideas off of when problems arise. I'm hoping I can find some support here for when I'm waiting for a reply from Sandy or Dr. Harley.

From my perspective, our problems hinge on him reserving some independent decisions as exempt from POJA (he should be able to decided how *he* spends *his* free time). As I complain, he becomes so frustrated that he is unable to see any way to solve the problems I have with his decisions. Each time I find out he has made more independent decisions, I complain. To escape my complaints, he spends less and less time with me. He will allow me to do UA time with him because we are not supposed to talk about problems during that time. I *think* I am supposed to complain as problems arise, so I try to keep the in-person complaint short, and then follow up in an email which I copy to Sandy.

From his perspective, I'm being controlling because I want to know and dictate his every move. I'm weaponizing the POJA by saying everything hurts me. When I do say something hurts me, I don't come up with any kind of solution that would make him enthusiastic about suspending the action that hurts me. It makes him feel hopeless. Also, I don't listen to any of his complaints. He is unenthusiastic about my diet, my physical attractiveness, and visiting my household when it's dirty. I don't protect him from my teenage daughter (his stepdaughter)'s rude remarks. He feels hopeless when it comes to UA because we have nothing in common and I'm not okay with doing anything, anyways. I don't want to go anywhere where we run the risk of being around other females and I don't think anything is fun. To top it all off, he is not good at conversing with me.

UA has become a roller coaster for me. After just a few hours of UA, I fall for my husband and feel very connected to him. The more attached I become, the more painful his IB is to me. In the past, I have been able to cope by not talking to him at all. If I don't talk to him and have a life outside of him to keep me busy, I don't wonder what he is doing all day. But the UA time required of us each week reels me back in. It's like I have to go from being his wife for a few hours to being an individual again. It's a grueling process that leaves me emotionally spent. Because of this, I declined UA for tonight until I can get further instruction on what to do.

Do you guys have any thoughts? I appreciate any input y'all can give.

Hi HersheyKiss, I saw your new screen name and wondered if it was the same person. Welcome back! I would continue to work with Dr Harley and Sandy to learn how to negotiate. When my H and I started using it, I also felt punished because my H was using it to VETO everything. I felt very frustrated. The truth is that I was trying to control him by forcing my independent decisions on him. I learned to stop my IB and we have learned to negotiate. That is a real skill that takes time. Just keep working at it and take the direction of Dr Harley.

Thanks for the warm welcome, MelodyLane. I will do as you say and continue to work with Dr. Harley and Sandy.

For now, my husband wants me to continue UA. It seems he is saying that if UA is making enough deposits into his LB, he will *want* to follow POJA. I don't know if I'm capable of enduring the emotional distress that this cycle is causing me. Each time I spend UA time with him, I become even more invested in his decisions and I depend on him to make them with me in mind. When he doesn't do this, I fall into a state where I'm crying off and on all day and I'm not really functioning the way I should be as a homemaker and parent. It's grueling and stressful for me - to put it lightly.

Well no. Using the POJA makes a dramatic change to your marriage. It all works together. When you are not used to using it, you don't WANT to do it at first. You have to practice. I sure didn't FEEL like using it at first, but when I saw the remarkable changes in my marriage, I was encouraged. So he needs to start using it now so you won't suffer and so he can get into the habit. If he refuses to follow the concepts of this program, that is another problem altogether.

You need to gently tell him exactly this. Your wording is perfect - you are making this about you not about him.

Living_well: It's very validating to hear that I've worded something the right way. I often wonder if I could have said or done something differently in order to convince him that his decisions are hurting me and that POJA is a good idea.

I'm open to the idea that I'm simply being too restrictive with POJA, but - as MelodyLane pointed out - it feels very restrictive to the other spouse when they find out that much (most? all?) of their daily activities bring unilateral enjoyment.

He wants me to find alternatives to the things he is doing that hurt me. His job is one example of this. His job requires him to sit in a small space for 8 hours. He can do whatever he wants to do during this time. A coworker brings a Nintendo Switch to work to make the day go by faster. My husband chooses to play video games and watch YouTube videos. I've expressed to him that it bothers me when he entertains himself this way because we haven't found anything that would be more fun than those activities during our recreational time together. Before he stops using YouTube or playing video games, he would like me to find a comparable alternative. That leads to a daily disappointment for me when I find out that he is still using these mediums. When I do suggest alternatives, they usually end up being pastimes he would not enjoy.

I did suggest something that he was enthusiastic about: doing his schoolwork together. In the past, we used screen share on Skype while being on the phone with each other to discuss his lessons. Unfortunately, Skype became glitchy after we found this option and wouldn't allow us to use the screen share feature. We tried a few other screen sharing programs, but I could feel his frustration growing with each failure; he was getting nothing done. Eventually, we quit trying.

That is NOT how the POJA works. In the POJA, he does nothing until a suitable alternative is found. So for now, it is nothing until he comes up with something that makes you both happy. If he has to STOP altogether, he will be motivated to find solutions that suit you both. As it is, he has absolutely no motivation and apparently doesn't give a whit that it bothers you.

You DO understand that the default position of the POJA is to do nothing, right? The fact that he is continuing to do this tells me he doesn't CARE that he is making lovebank withdrawals.

It doesn't seem like he buys into the POJA at all. What is Sandy's impression of this problem?

To be honest, he doesn't sound interested in making you happy AT ALL. What is it that you see in him? I would kick this guy to the curb and find a more suitable marriage candidate.

I do understand that the default position is to do nothing. I *think* he understands too. I think he just thinks it's unreasonable to stop doing everything with no relief. I feel for him when he makes that argument because I know it's painful and frustrating to do nothing.



We haven't really received much instruction from her yet. We only just started copying her to our email discussions on the 27th (I believe). She has reassured me that my asking him to stop doing things is not a demand. At the time, he was protesting that I was being demanding by asking him to stop doing practically everything he was doing. To be fair, I would usually end up in tears over the his decisions which made him feel very pressured and even coerced into stopping. That's when I decided to do my best to attempt to keep all conversations positive and only address problems as they came up with very short complaints in person and a follow up email.

At this point, Sandy and I are waiting to see what Dr. Harley says. I'm getting the feeling that I'm an odd case in that I'm so sensitive to his IB that I regress to not being able to function in daily life.

Did you see the question?

I did. We have 4 kids together. It breaks my heart to know that I've let him into our lives (yet again) for them to get attached only to make him leave again. I do see that there really is no way to get him to follow POJA if he decides not to.

His last interaction with me (through email, and copied to Sandy) is him complaining that I don't have any viable alternatives to suggest in place of the independent decisions he is making. Would it be disrespectful of me to remind him that POJA means "don't *do* anything", not "stop when your spouse finds something better for you to do"? Is there a way I can respectfully point him to Dr. Harley's "Having Trouble with POJA" columns? Or have I done all I can do at this point?

Dr. Harley got back with me this morning. His advice was that we should try to find a way to work together.

In my response to him, I let him know that I didn't think this would work. Regardless of where he works or who he's around when he does, my husband still believes that I shouldn't worry about things like his sleep schedule or what he does with his free time. In fact, my worrying about those things is an example of my controlling nature. I also let Dr. Harley know what my husband's iteration of the POJA is.

What do you guys think? Would working together solve the POJA issue? I think the crux of our problem is my husbands desire to do the things he does despite my feelings - no matter where he works.

HK, you need to do what Dr Harley says to do. He is a genius and a professional. I am NOT.. I will watch what he says and help you do what he suggests.I told you what I would do personally, but that does not mean you should do that. After all, you have 4 kids together and Dr Harley might be able to get through to him.

This is a super good point, and the one I keep falling back on when times get rough.

Dr. Harley wrote me back after my response to his first message this morning. He said "Sandy will try to work with him on the POJA. Without his willingness to follow it, I'm afraid that your relationship can't move forward."

This makes much more sense to me.

Sandy has been in touch with me to let me know that she will try to explain the full application of POJA to my husband. She also had me brainstorm ideas on what he could do during his downtime at work that I wouldn't have a problem with. There are many more POJA issues in our marriage, but this alone makes me feel much more hopeful and optimistic. Now, it's just a matter of whether my husband will work with me or not.

Fabulous, think of the POJA as the canary in the coal mine. If you can't get that to work, it means that the foundations of your relationship are missing.

Bingo!