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Originally Posted by amac
About an hour, 40 miles.

H used to work even further in the opposite direction. He claims the move to the new job closer to where she lives was the trigger.

I agree with you, I can't chance a chance encounter, but I think the computer is the greater threat. In either affair they hardly ever communicated by phone. The emailing is their thing. If it were to start again thats the most likely mechanism. If I had been monitoring his work computer I would have seen the emails and could have stopped it (you told me this exact thing in prior posts).

The biggest threat is that they are 20 minutes apart no matter where he works - they can meet in the middle. Chance encounters will always be a risk as long as you live there. And he is obviously not going to use email again if he knows you are watching. That is cheating 101. Even a wetbrain knows how to easily overcome that. Since he is so close to her he will ALWAYS be triggered and will always have close access, which gives him the ability to go see her.

It's not just chance encounters that are your biggest risk. It is being in such close proximity to his girlfriend that he can sneak away and see her anytime. It pains me greatly to see you trying to spin this away because I see you headed for another affair.

You seem to be under the illusion that having access to his work email would have prevented this, but that is not true. What would have prevented it would be living somewhere else because he can't travel without your knowledge. There are many, many other ways he could resume contact without you knowing.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You seem to be under the illusion that having access to his work email would have prevented this, but that is not true.

No, I don't think that. At this point I actually feel that yes, another affair 99% likely. However, and this is coming from Dr. Harley, my H who is a weak and attractive person he will always be susceptible to affairs. So given that, I am not willing to move or change my job and disrupt my life further with someone who is in high danger of doing those things even if I were take all those steps.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
There are many, many other ways he could resume contact without you knowing.

That was true last time too. No one told me to move then, and Dr. Harley has not told me that this time. Why is moving the only option now if the danger existed as much then?

If I won't move and change my job, tell me what to do. We are separated, I am not dead set on saving this marriage, I am trying because Dr. Harley told me I should. Tell me how I to close the door to him for the next 15 YEARS.





Last edited by amac; 03/24/20 10:20 AM.

BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3

D-Day 1: 5/8/17
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Originally Posted by amac
That was true last time too. No one told me to move then, and Dr. Harley has not told me that this time.

Some notes:

(1) We were under the impression that you were further away from the OW than that. I thought it was a couple of hours away.

(2) The advice was given to you to start a law firm with your H.

and

(3) With new affairs, resumption of any affair always means MORE extraordinary precautions to close up loopholes, not the same or less.


Last edited by SusieQ; 03/25/20 12:28 PM.

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Don't get tunnel vision on the email. Your H has proven time and time again (having a post nup and prospect of losing everything didn't stop him) that this OW is an addiction that he will likely not give up.

Think about this: Do you want to watch your WH for the rest of your life?

You will need to monitor ALL of his devices with spyware and track him via GPS and have VAR in his office and car. In addition, he should have absolutely ZERO free time except for his work hours and even then waywards can work around that with the OP being so close. We have seen it time and again on these forums - and your own history shows you that.

You cannot let your guard down with this guy, ever. Not in a few months or a few years.

Last edited by SusieQ; 03/25/20 12:28 PM.

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Originally Posted by amac
We are separated, I am not dead set on saving this marriage, I am trying because Dr. Harley told me I should.

Honestly, I'm pretty shocked to hear that. My exH was a multiple offender but he would give up an affair as soon as it was discovered (typical for serial cheats).

Your WH seems to be a hybrid of both, he has trolled for action on the internet and also cannot give up this one particular OW. And he signaled, as many of us pointed out to you the last time, that he was unwilling to give up his SSL by failing two polys.

Dr. Harley told me that it would be best for my ex H to work with me so he would have no opportunity for a SSL.

But I framed the discussion in, how do I stay married and trust that he won't keep doing this to me? Maybe you framed it differently and Dr Harley is working with what you gave him. I don't know. But Dr Harley has said MANY times he would not fault a BS for not staying married to a WS. Never mind a wayward who will likely stray again and does not have appropriate EPs in place.


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Originally Posted by amac
Tell me how I to close the door to him for the next 15 YEARS.

We are not ignorant to the challenges of D. As you know, we advise Plan B and parallel parenting. Many of us have done it and (everyone I am in contact with from MB in this position) are happier as a result than staying married to a wayward.

Sure it is not easy but staying married to wayward who won't give up their SSL and does not have appropriate EPs in place is worse. Much worse.

Last edited by SusieQ; 03/25/20 12:29 PM.

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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by amac
That was true last time too. No one told me to move then, and Dr. Harley has not told me that this time.

Some notes:

(1) We were under the impression that you were further away from the OW than that. I thought it was a couple of hours away.

(2) The advice was given to you to start a law firm with your H.

and

(3) With new affairs, resumption of any affair always means MORE extraordinary precautions to close up loopholes, not the same or less.

Thanks for replying SusieQ, I was hoping to hear from you. You are correct about the distance between OW and H, I realize after I posted at the time when we reconciled and I was posting OW did live further away, since that time they moved closer to us. What luck.

I am trying to do more EPs now, thats why I thought getting access to his work computer was so huge! I did not have that before. And I should point out he does not know the extent of what I can see. I literally get screenshots of everything he does and every word he types. He is under the impression that I cant see his work email and I only get keyword alerts.

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Do you want to watch your WH for the rest of your life?

This I can do. The monitoring does not really bother me.

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by amac
We are separated, I am not dead set on saving this marriage, I am trying because Dr. Harley told me I should.

But I framed the discussion in, how do I stay married and trust that he won't keep doing this to me? Maybe you framed it differently and Dr Harley is working with what you gave him.

Yes, I think that is likely true. Mine is more, is it worth it to try even though it is likely that he will do this again. After talking to me and knowing the kind of work I do, Dr. Harley told me he believes I have "very high endurance" and "could handle almost anything" and "the alternative is worse" then not trying. He knows I wont move, I was very clear about that from the beginning and still gave me this advice.

I know no one here is going to say its a good idea for me to remain in a marriage were there is a high likelihood of this happening again. But unfortunately, I think that is the case even with moving and changing my job, so I'm not willing to do those things.

What I'm hoping is that you can help me come up with a Plan that does not require those two things. I know MB is not a pick and choose place, so I understand if you can't/won't help me. But that's where I am at right now.



BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3

D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
Affair ended: 3/25/18

DD 2: 2/14/20

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Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by amac
Tell me how I to close the door to him for the next 15 YEARS.

We are not ignorant to the challenges of D. As you know, we advise Plan B and parallel parenting. Many of us have done it and (everyone I am in contact with from MB in this position) are happier as a result than staying married to a wayward.

Sure it is not easy but staying married to wayward who won't give up their SSL and does not have appropriate EPs in place is worse. Much worse.

This is why I was hoping to hear from you especially. I think I could do Plan B and parallel parenting while H is having an active affair, but my worry is that it will be hard for me to have the boundaries necessary when he is not having an active affair. I am afraid I will inevitably get sucked back in. How do you have the motivation to maintain a strict Plan B when they are not causing you pain? I'm afraid the threat of future harm would not be sufficient for me.


BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3

D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
Affair ended: 3/25/18

DD 2: 2/14/20

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Originally Posted by amac
Mine is more, is it worth it to try even though it is likely that he will do this again. After talking to me and knowing the kind of work I do, Dr. Harley told me he believes I have "very high endurance" and "could handle almost anything" and "the alternative is worse" then not trying. He knows I wont move, I was very clear about that from the beginning and still gave me this advice.
amac, what date were you on the show? Maybe Brainy can find your segment and link it here.

I too am very surprised that Dr Harley gave you the direct advice to try and save the marriage. When it comes to serially cheating husbands who do not and will not protect their wives, Dr Harley has always been very protective of the wife and very blunt about the misery she faces if she won't protect herself from her husband.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
[quote=amac]Mine is more, is it worth it to try even though it is likely that he will do this again. After talking to me and knowing the kind of work I do, Dr. Harley told me he believes I have "very high endurance" and "could handle almost anything" and "the alternative is worse" then not trying. He knows I wont move, I was very clear about that from the beginning and still gave me this advice.
amac, what date were you on the show? Maybe Brainy can find your segment and link it here.

I was on the show Wed 2/19. He didn't tell me on the show to try and save my marriage, at that point it was just going through the info, he wanted to talk to my H first. The following week he talked to my H and then followed up with me the week after and we have had a couple emails back and forth. We haven't been on the radio since.

Originally Posted by SugarCane
I too am very surprised that Dr Harley gave you the direct advice to try and save the marriage. When it comes to serially cheating husbands who do not and will not protect their wives, Dr Harley has always been very protective of the wife and very blunt about the misery she faces if she won't protect herself from her husband.

After talking to Dr. Harley, I think he believed, and I believe is the case also, that my H is willing to do the things suggested by Dr. Harely to save the marriage. In our phone conversations he told me that was H going back to his old firm that was further from OW. Then in the email he said because H is a family law lawyer he is in contact with vulnerable woman and that is dangerous so we should work together.

In this scenario I am in the one who is not willing to move or give up my job, not H.

And I think I'm a little bit different in alot of ways then the stero typical betrayed wife. Would Dr. Harely tell a betrayed husband the same thing? I think there are characteristics about me and our marriage that make me more like a betrayed husband then betrayed wife, if that changes anything.



BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3

D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
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Originally Posted by amac
But I was wrong on both fronts, when he started a new job in the fall he claims he was afraid she might do something to sabotage it, so he looked at her Linkden profile and she could see he looked at it and so she changed her picture to something that would "trigger" him along with how to contact her. He set up a fake email account and contacted her and the affair resumed pretty much immediately like before where he would meet her during the day at work.

He wanted to reach out to her because it is like taking a hit off the crack pipe, and he cared more about that than about how it would hurt you or his family.


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Originally Posted by amac
I am trying to do more EPs now, thats why I thought getting access to his work computer was so huge! I did not have that before. And I should point out he does not know the extent of what I can see. I literally get screenshots of everything he does and every word he types. He is under the impression that I cant see his work email and I only get keyword alerts.

Quote
What I'm hoping is that you can help me come up with a Plan that does not require those two things. I know MB is not a pick and choose place, so I understand if you can't/won't help me. But that's where I am at right now.

We cannot really help you here on the forums to deviate from what we know Dr Harley's advice to be - sometimes he does deviate when he counsels couples one-on-one, but we cannot do that.

If his advice was to find a job working together, I would follow it unless you want to endure more affairs.

I could never advise another BS to endure a marriage where appropriate EPs are not being followed, especially with a WS like yours, when a post nuptial and having a OP who sent his job nude pictures of him didn't stop him....IMO nothing is going to stop him unless you are with him all the time and he has no opportunity for a secret second life.


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Is it because you have very young children and don’t think you can raise them as a single mom? Maybe you can make a plan to Plan B once you get the youngest in preschool?

Quote
How do you have the motivation to maintain a strict Plan B when they are not causing you pain? I'm afraid the threat of future harm would not be sufficient for me.
Because once you get the relief that Plan B brings you won’t want to go back to the uncertainty.

Last edited by NewEveryDay; 03/27/20 05:44 AM.

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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Is it because you have very young children and don’t think you can raise them as a single mom? Maybe you can make a plan to Plan B once you get the youngest in preschool?

She wouldn't need to wait to go into Plan B. We have had women with infants successfully go into Plan B. If Plan B is necessary, it can't wait for years or there will be lasting damage. The purpose of Plan B is to protect the BS from emotional damage that comes from direct contact.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Agreed. She is already a single mother. For her, Plan B isn't about going into separation since she has already separated from him by herself. She has a high-powered job, so she must already have robust childcare in place. She only needs to organise handovers so that her husband receives and delivers the children without her seeing him. The younger child must already be with a nanny or private nursery, so that makes it easy for him to collect and deliver from there. If the school and nursery have closed and her job has altered during this Covid crisis, she needs to think creatively about making Plan B work.

Having very young children is never a reason for not going to Plan B, and posters do not need advice suggesting that they need to put this off.


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I was wondering who you have exposed to, amac. I know you said your H mom and dad and something about church, but how about your family and your kids?

I know when we have repeat offenders the BS tends to emotionally drained and if they are not even sure if they want to save the M, they sometimes skip this step. But I think it is important that you follow through.





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Originally Posted by SusieQ
I was wondering who you have exposed to, amac. I know you said your H mom and dad and something about church, but how about your family and your kids?

I know when we have repeat offenders the BS tends to emotionally drained and if they are not even sure if they want to save the M, they sometimes skip this step. But I think it is important that you follow through.

Yes, my siblings and parents all know, and my close friends. H told our church leader and I have communicated with the leader as well, I also told my close friends from the church. H's parents and siblings all know as well, from both of us. I told my DD who is 5 that "Daddy did something married people shouldn't do and it made mommy very sad so mommy can't live with him." I'm glad I told her this, she doesn't ask for him when he is not around and seems to understand. Its harder with DS, who is 3, he obviously would not understand much so he does ask for H at times and wants him to stay in the house.

Both H and I have talked with Dr. Harley over the last few days, we are all more optimistic.


BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3

D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
Affair ended: 3/25/18

DD 2: 2/14/20

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Originally Posted by amac
Both H and I have talked with Dr. Harley over the last few days, we are all more optimistic.
Would you mind please giving us a summary of what Dr Harley said to each of you? We do appreciate knowing the line of advice that he is giving, so that we can best support you.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by amac
Both H and I have talked with Dr. Harley over the last few days, we are all more optimistic.
Would you mind please giving us a summary of what Dr Harley said to each of you? We do appreciate knowing the line of advice that he is giving, so that we can best support you.

He hasn't given us anything very specific yet. At this point it seems more information gathering. I told him the problem with us starting a law firm together, how as prosecutor by definition I have to work for the government and to go into private practice would mean doing the complete opposite line of work and require me to represent people that I currently view as guilty and work to convict. That is not something I am cut out for and he understands that. His discussion with my H revolved around the affair and effects on him and our marriage. Dr. Harley emailed me afterward and said he counselled my H about the dangers of a SSL and transparency at all costs and that he was "more optimistic" after that conversation. Not much other then that at this point.


BW (Me): 39
FWH: 39
DD: 5
DS: 3

D-Day 1: 5/8/17
Plan B started: 6/19/17
For real: 11/13/17-4/3/18
Affair ended: 3/25/18

DD 2: 2/14/20

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Does Dr. Harley believe your husband will cheat again? It is very likely and I wondered what Dr. Harley said about this. Has Dr Harley ever recommended divorce?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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