Hi I am new to the forum world and just felt like it would be nice to hear from others going through similar situations. Here is my story...

My husband and I are high school sweethearts, we went through 3 years of long distance when I was away in college and married the year after I graduated. 2 kids and 20 years later we have been seperated for about 10 months. Our marriage has not been perfect, but our love for each other has always been a strength and a glue for everything. we have only ever dated seriously each other and we have both always been so proud of our young love story.

I am a people pleaser and am someone who gives without ever asking for things in return. I really have a difficult time putting myself before others, had a military ptsd father and needless to say it was my role in the family to help daddy stay calm because when he was not things were chaotic. This was easy for me because it's just my personality and it lead me to my career as a school psychologist. I have always felt selfish in putting my feelings before anyone else's, but at the same time taking care of others is something that brings me pure joy. Husband has always been more innately selfish compared to me but his love for me and his desire to take care of me and be with me has always been amazing and what has been the glue for us. Almost 2 years ago he met another woman at a game and our lives have not been the same since. I saw the whole thing play out in front of me and he fought the idea of this emotional affair he was having every step of the way. I do believe he was not out looking for this affair but it started to happen and before he could admit it he was over his head in lies and secrets to me.

When I discovered evidence and confronted him he admitted to the situation but promised he just got caught up in it and he loved me and wanted us. A year and half later and now at 10 months seperated he continues to go back and forth with this woman, he continues to lie about seeing her because he does not want to loose me but can not walk away from her. during this time he has not ever blamed me for the affair, takes full responsibility for the situation and knows it has been his choices that have gotten us here, he does not get mean, play games with money or kids, never comes over unannounced, is nothing but respectful to me and still tells me how much he loves me, sexually wants me, and says I am his future. When he left it was to "fix" himself, says I will never understand what he has to live with and how his choices have broken him. BUT does not seem to beable to stay away from her.

It has become almost a reverse affair in the way that he looks for his sexual and physical needs to be met by me and his needs for friendship from OW. Our sex life has always been good, but since meeting the OW it has become very satisfying for both of us and a huge increase. He swears he was only intamite with her 1 time, not sure if I fully believe it, but it is what he swears and says it is the reason he feels so broken because he knows he broke our marriage vows and the fact that we have only ever been with each other.

He swore he was leaving for himself and us and not her, but 3 months after he was out of house he was secretly seeing her again. I was sent pictures of his car in her driveway a few months ago, I am sure by the other woman, I told him I was not able to share him and I was not going to stand in his way anymore and he should go be with her. 6 weeks later he was back asking me to wait for him because it is me he wants but still broken and cant or wont do anything to work on us. I set my boundary of no secrets no lies but kept things surface based still not believing he was able to give me what I need and i was right he wasn't. In a matter of a few weeks he went from I am his future to distancing himself even more from me. I know that things have to end and I have to stop this bleeding and I am already doing so much of the 180 but could definitely do a better job at holding the boundaries and not letting his words, which have been full of lies, draw me back.

I do believe he feels "broken" and having an identity crisis maybe? He has a complicated past and never dealt with any of it and basically the chooses he has made is also the 1 thing he has always been convinced I would eventually do to him. He has abandonment issues and has always believed people will leave him, so this is almost a self fulling prophecy. And on top of all of this his mother passed away unexpectedly and quickly a few months ago, his biggest fear in life has always been loosing his mom, again complicated history. 

I honestly do not want to give up on him or us but not sure what else to do right now. I told him we should just focus on being parents and hopefully friends right now and see where we are in the next few months. 

I just do not want there to be any regrets and I have the hardest time with walking away from anything in my life even though I know I am not the one walking away. Anyone else going through something similar? Anyone make it through this without a divorce? Is it a possibility that his guilt and shame of these choices is causing him to be broken and just creating a self fullfilling prophecy? Or is it all BS, can it be a bit of both? Any suggestions?

Hi UC, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am not sure what you are asking. Did you want to try to save your marriage? The advice we give here would not be personal experiences, but the steps recommended by Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. Most of us have saved our own marriages using these steps. We came here because our own marriages were wrecked. Do you want to know what those steps would be?

Yes I am interested in saving my marriage, I do not want to divorce and I believe that we can survive this and make our marriage even stronger than it was. I guess what I am hoping for is any advice or guidance on how to hold on and keep fighting when my husband seems to be so lost and broken and can only seem to focus on himself and his pain and just does not seems to beable to or want to put any effort into healing our marriage, just keeps saying he has to fix himself before he can fix us. And wondering If anyone has dealt with or knows the best way to deal with a WS who appears to be this lost and is it that I should believe he cant or he is just trying to have his cake and eat it to.

UC, I will be completely honest with my own assessment of your situation and then tell you what Dr. Harley's approach would be. Everyone here has dealt with this. Your situation is a classic affair. Your husband might have all manners of disorders, but that is not why he is having an affair. He is having an affair for the same reason that 99% of cheaters have affairs: they have poor boundaries around the opposite sex. Your husband was not out looking for an affair, he allowed another woman to meet his needs and fell in love. His affair is based on fantasy and is a powerful addiction, much like a heroin or alcohol addiction.

One of the biggest reasons this has gone on so long is because you have inadvertently enabled him. He has the absolute best of both worlds, two women meeting his needs and vying for his attention. He is not confused or lost, YOU ARE. He is the heroin addict who can't give up his addiction because his dealer keeps him supplied.

The biggest problem with your marriage is that this affair has gone on so long without interruption that his wayward mindset is very entrenched. Even the most aggressive approach might not work due to that reason. Even if you managed to kill this affair, he would likely just have another affair because he has had two women meet his needs for so long. That doesn't mean there isn't a small chance and we can help you with that.

Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has specialized in saving marriages from infidelity for 40 years and he has said: "it is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler."

When there is an affair, Dr. Harley recommends Plan A. Plan A means doing your best to show your wayward spouse that you will meet his needs if he ends his affair. Plan A also means you fight the affair by exposing it wide and far. Exposure is the most powerful weapon against an affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposing them either kills them immediately or hastens their death. The longer you wait to expose, the less effective it is.

After 3 weeks, Dr. Harley recommends a betrayed wife go into Plan B and completely end all contact with the WS. Prolonged contact with a WH makes the wife less attractive and causes enormous emotional and physical damage. When a betrayed wife experiences emotional problems from an affair, it makes it even less likely that reconciliation will take place.

Based on that, my suggestion would be that you stop enabling him immediately and go into a dark Plan B. This will not only protect you psychologically, but without you in the picture, the OW will be forced to meet his needs 100%. That will cause the affair to collapse faster. She is a selfish, uncaring individual [or she wouldn't be having an affair with him] and those traits that made the affair possible will eventually come out and ruin the affair. You have been meeting his needs also, which has only served to fill the gaps and prop up his affair.

Going into Plan B is a win/win for you, because he will either end his affair and come back. OR, if he doesn't, you will be protected from his abusive, selfish behavior and will be better equipped to get a divorce and move on. Going into a DARK Plan B will help you make better decisions because you won't be emotionally devastated. The absolute WORST thing you can do is keep the door open while he has an affair. It hurts you, enables him and is horrendous role modeling for your children.

Translation: I have to continue my affair but keep you on the sidelines.


He is not lost at all, my friend. YOU ARE.

What do you know about this OW? Is she married?

She was unhappily, when my husband met her she was actively flirting with several other people around the same poker table. After their emotional affair was revealed she filed for divorce from her husband and they have been divorced for several months now. Every time my husband pulled away from her she would make sure her husband got info about her and my husband spending time together which created her husband to contact me and my husband and start all this drama. She has also resorted in involving her 2 children in this affair and has used them to pull my husband in...saying she needs help with them or the daughter would call him for a ride etc...she has hunted my husband down in the middle of the street, went to co workers houses and begged mutual friends to contact my husband when he tried to ignore her and stay away. She purposefully wrote a journal documenting dates and times she was with my husband and when he tried pulling away she made sure her ex husband found the journal and he sent it to me. Recently she mailed me pics of husbands car outside of her house. She has bought my husband expensive items and tried buying him a car if he would leave me. She has emotionally blackmailed him several times threatening to call me if he didnt do something with her. My husband is at 100% fault in every choice he has made but she is definitely not someone who will get down and dirty to win.

You realize that this will all be hopeless unless you move away, right?

Did you read my posts? Can you please respond?

I did, sorry working from home. I agree with everything you have said. It is where I know I need to go and actually for the first time feeling strong enough to do it. I realized recently that the reason all of this has been so hard to believe and so hurtful is I keep thinking about how the person I married would never do these things to me, but I finally realized that he is not the person I married right now he has become a different version of himself. And that has helped me realize I do not want to be married to this version of him. He knows me so well and he knows although I am strong and can do this life on my own and I know how to draw boundaries I am also someone who cares so deeply about others feelings and pain and he has been using that against me this whole time to keep me waiting for him. I am ready to close the door because frankly it is the only thing left I can do and it will either wake him up and become a better version of himself or I will beable to move onto some new plan God may have for me.

The great thing about following the Marriage Builder plan is that you have a better chance of recovering from your husband's affair than if you stay and wait this out while he goes back and forth, free to enjoy two women meeting his emotional needs. This is going to completely wear you out and possibly you could lose all your love for him, making recovery less possible. The best thing to do is to go into a dark Plan B while you are still in love with him. That will force the OW to meet all his needs, which is going to be impossible for her to do.

Most affairs die a natural death. But if you continue to allow your husband to get his needs met by two women, the affair could continue indefinitely.

We would be happy to help you put together a plan that will a) protect you and your children and b) give you the best chance possible to save your marriage. There is only a small chance this can be saved, I will be honest. I am a very optimistic person but I don't believe in giving anyone false hope. When an affair has gone on this long, it is very hard to save. I think it is important to know this up front.

Any help would be appreciated. I plan on talking to my husband today. It's so complicated sorry if this gets confusing. Just time line wise here I am currently...he moved out in July with the plan on working on himself and me working on myself, we would be committed to each other, I do believe this was a time he was actively staying away from her. We spent time together but not a ton, we were having sex, which I know should not have been happening.

In october apparently they ran into each other and he began spending time with her of course behind my back. In January his mother passed unexpectedly and things got dark for him, major trauma in his life which I understand since I lost my mom 6 years ago. On February 1, which is exactly 1 year from the d day of finding out he had slept with this OW because she left a journal out for her ex to find and he showed me, she sent me pics she had taken of his car outside of her house that are from oct, nov, and dec.

At this time I told him I had nothing more to give and I could not fight for us alone and I took my wedding ring off and told him it was best for us to just be seperated with no commitment or expectations of a relationship outside of parenting. We stopped talking for the most part outside of our kids, within 2 or 3 weeks he was telling me he missed me we went back and forth about what I need and what he felt he can do, devastated by his mom and obviously confused between us. I told him what I needed to move forward and he just said he was not able to make a plan and had to do this 1 day at a time. At this time I fell back into holding an expectation of things he should be doing and then disappointed that he is not. I then just had a moment of clarity that he wont do what I need and j dropped any expectation, stopped expecting to talk to him frequently and became comfortable with not talking to him. I was seeing him about 1 time a week when he came over to see our kids (teens) and we would all hang out.

I was pulling away and I felt him pulling away and currently right now the OW clearly has entered the picture again and I am not sure in what capacity, supose to be talking to him today because he says he has something to tell me. I believe there is an issue of some kind between them because I woke to a missed call from her the other night so she for the 2nd time in 2 years has reached out to me so I have no idea what drama she is bringing but although I am curious I also dont care because ots his issue not mine, and that is a huge change for me.

So now I plan on telling him that I do not want to be married to this version of him and plan b action.

Just know that he moved out for one reason and one reason only: to pursue his affair. It is cute and winsome to want to "work on oneself" but one doesn't move out to do it. He moved out for his affair. His affair has dictated his every move. It is real important you understand this basic fact. His affair is a powerful addiction. He has not been honest with you about this.


This is the story given, but they didn't just "run into each other." That is what he told you and others. "UtterlyConfuised and I have AGREED to separate to "work on ourselves" and in the meantime, I have met a new friend and am exploring a relationship with her." This is a classic tactic of cheaters. Your husband set this all up so you wouldn't understand he moved out for one reason: HIS AFFAIR.


Would you let us help you segue into a proper Plan B? You should not discuss this with him at all. It should be done via letter [we have a template] after careful planning on your part. You should not rush into this and certainly should not discuss it with him.

Please read up on Plan B FIRST so you can get prepared. How to Plan B

Thank you I will read all this and formulate a plan. I appreciate the help

Sorry if I missed this, but how did he meet OW?

Who was the affair exposed to? I know her ex-husband, but any of yours, his or her family or friends?

He met her a poker game at a friends house he went to weekly. My husbands family knows of the A but my children do not know and there is no reason for then to ever know, my mom had an affair and me knowing about it did nothing positive for me, so therefore I choose not to tell my family about it, less people who know less chance my kids would have found out. And I had been hopeful we would make it through this and them knowing would make family functions harder. Some friends of mine and his are aware of it. My family knows we have been seperated but did not say it was due to affair.

I would reconsider that approach. Your children are not stupid. Not telling them the truth, leaves them wide open for your husband to create a false narrative. And yes he will. Kids are not made happy by lies and illusions. The only one who benefits from this secrecy is the OW and the welfare of the affair, certainly not your children. Your kids will hear about it eventually and they should be told the truth first BY you so they are prepared.

My own mother was silent about my father's affairs. He actually introduced me to his OW. This seemed very wrong to me but since no adult validated my instincts about right and wrong I grew up profoundly morally confused and concluded I must be a stupid girl. The job of a parent is to give MORAL GUIDANCE to her children, it is not hide the wrongdoing of one of the parents.

Please reconsider because keeping it a secret from your kids, the ones most affected by this, is not in their best interest.

Please read this thread about Dr Harley's approach to exposure. He calls it the "single most important step toward recovery."


To not expose only serves to enable the affair. WHEN SHOULD AN AFFAIR BE EXPOSED Willard F. Harley, Jr., PhD

Your family very much needs to know the truth so they can support you. The more people who know, the more people to support you and hold your husband accountable. Keeping his affair a secret has helped it thrive and grow. That does not help anyone.

Just think, your husbands plan is to slowly introduce your children to the OW without them knowing this is the woman who helped break up their family. Imagine how they would feel if they embraced the OW not knowing the truth? And what if your family embraced the OW in the future not knowing what happened? You are setting yourself up for a multitude of bad, awkward situations by helping the adulterers hide their affair. It makes it much easier for them to be accepted by your families if they don't know. That is not fair to any of them.

Most of all it is not fair to you or your kids.