What do you mean "he still feels this way"? Do you mean that his memories of her have not altered - which as you now know, they never will - or do you mean that he is still in withdrawal and moping for her?

If he were still in the fog, he would be wondering whether he made the right choice, and doubting his commitment to you. "In the fog" is not defined by the fact that he still remembers the affair fondly, and "out of the fog" does not mean that he feels that way you feel about it: disgust and horror. "In withdrawal" means that he is moping around for her, and miserable, and that you cannot do a thing with him. Unfaithful spouses often go through bad withdrawals when the affair is ended - or at least the affair partners cannot meet up and communicate freely any more - against their will. They would give their right arm, and all their money, if they could be back with the affair partner.

If what is actually happening is that you are questioning him about her, desperate to hear the correct answer (that she was a vile despicable thief and that he regrets the whole sordid mess and the stain that he now carries in his soul), but instead he is saying she was good to him, she was lost like him, she cared for him and she wasn't a bad person, that's not the fog or withdrawal. That is you dredging her up and bringing her into your marriage every day, and holding her there as a barrier between the two of you.

He doesn't hate her, and he is not going to say he does, except perhaps to placate you and get you off his back. Do you want him to lie? Will that give you the satisfaction you want? I highly doubt it.

They might well be in touch, especially through work, and that is what you need to grapple with. However, you need to stop asking him to say she was a bad person, because he'll never say it except to keep you happy. You need to stop talking about her. Remember, always, that you came out of your own affair fog and stopped the affair. She was happy to break up your marriage. She is lower than the stuff you scrape off the bottom of your shoe.

Honestly I’m not sure what it is. I don’t know if it’s because he can’t hate her or if he’s still moping around and missing her. He doesn’t say much about that even though I’ve asked him. He’s trying to forget her and this horrible choice he made. That’s what he says.

I do fully understand what is being said about expecting him to hate her. That’s unrealistic and I get that if I stay it will always be true. However I get to choose if that’s acceptable for me. I don’t want to be with a man that has another woman in his head that he has fond memories of. I’m just built that way. I’m also sad to now realize that he’s felt this as well after my affair. If I was him I would’ve divorced me.

I think anyone who can heal and stay is beyond my strength and comprehension. I applaud you all for being able to do that. This more than likely isn’t the life for me. That’s yet to be seen but obviously I’m not handling this well at all.

I asked him yesterday if he hid texts, calls, or any evidence the days after he got busted in the affair. He said no yesterday BUT today at lunch he admitted he did write down her number to keep for a day or two. He said he tore up the number but again why should I believe anything he says.

It’s behavior like this that is making me question things. I understand wayward spouses do some desperate and stupid things to hold on to the good feelings of the affair. I’m just tired and don’t know what to believe anymore.

I think he’s used to hiding things just like he did during the affair and with our finances. It’s an old habit and old habits die slowly. I’m just at the point of cutting my losses because I can’t live like this anymore. It hurts like he!! but I must protect my mind and wellbeing. No marriage is worth losing my mind, sanity, and dignity over.

Do you want to stay married? I know that no one would fault you at all if you decide to walk away.

You need to talk to your GP about your feelings. Are you taking any anti-depressants?

I am sadly leaning more and more out the door. We had so many problems before this affair and truly it was the last thing I needed. I feel like there isn’t enough love, drive, or whatever to keep me going. It’s very difficult to stay and wade through the mud of healing. This route is sooooo much harder.

At first I didn’t want the marriage back per se. I just wanted the affair to end so I focused more on that stuff at the time. Then old feelings did start to come back. Now I’m wondering if this is worth jack squat. I did tell him wow you really showed me. You just couldn’t let me leave this marriage in dignity and peace. You had to give me that last disrespectful jab.

The timing of this affair was ridiculous and absurd. Not that an affair is good at anytime. Yet I had asked for the divorce in 2018. Waited for a bonus to pay for attorneys and instead everything was dragged out so he could have this Johnny come lately affair. I told him the door was always open. He has admitted to using me and the OW as options and backup plans. That if I didn’t come back he would have her and if she didn’t pan out he would have me. The OW did admit he used us both and I had to agree. I’m truly stunned he stooped so low because he didn’t want to be alone.


So as for me and how I feel about staying or going. The decision will be made sooner than later. I’m completely miserable trying to stay. Unlike my WS I’m not afraid to go it alone for awhile. I don’t need to use anyone to fill a void.

My mom was right. Men do some stupid [censored] to avoid dealing with being alone and getting to know themselves. And by the looks of the OW anything that said hello would do. All of our friends and family are completely stunned at his selfishness. We’re even more shocked at him choosing Jabba the Hut mixed with Mrs. Potato head. I wish I was lying and just being petty but it’s true lol. He said that description was accurate.

I did make an appointment with my GP. She’s known for a while I haven’t been doing ok but was waiting on me. She referred me to a Psychiatrist. My appointment is tomorrow. I don’t want the antidepressants but I’m sure that’s what he’ll recommend. I was starting to self medicate with alcohol. I have sadly done that to be able to survive this marriage in the past. I hate to admit that out loud but it’s true.

I want to say how weird it is to not want to see or be triggered by your WS but being so insecure and needy you need them around. I hate myself like this. It’s not who I am at all. I feel completely nuts.

An anti-depressant will much reduce the feelings of insecurity, neediness and being completely nuts. You shouldn't resist taking one if it is offered by the psychiatrist. Accept the help that is offered. Once you have come down from the cliff-edge of despair you'll be in a better position to make rational decisions about your marriage. It would not be wise for you to take the decision to end your marriage when your mental health is in a state of crisis.

Ending the marriage is a serious step to take, and you need to be in a better place to be able to evaluate your future.

Thank you so much SugarCane for your input and taking the time to answer my posts. I will accept the help and suggestions of the psychiatrist today. Although I honestly hate I have to be put on antidepressants because of another person’s choices.

I have my own timeline in my head. I’m the type who gives living in misery a cut off date. I don’t have to suffer and live this way over “love”. I know for a fact this isn’t what love is. My well being is more precious than any relationship or a man.

My WS had 20 years to get his &$@! together yet keeps choosing destruction. He’s always harming me first then harming himself. I had the displeasure of having a rude awakening by my in laws atrocious selfish narcissistic behavior after the affair was discovered. It was in that moment that I realize ohhhhh this is where this comes from. So lots of his past upbringing and trauma is at play here.

Other than that I hope the antidepressants help balance me out. That I can be back in a place of self care. I’m usually very active. Used to have a pristine home. Of course Covid19 I’ve had to stay home a lot which is not in my nature. I truly miss myself and who I was before this trauma I didn’t ask for entered my life. I hope to report to you all that my life is moving forward.

Recovery after an affair is a very narrow path. Each spouse has to be all in to make it work. Dr. Harley recommends the attitude for an unfaithful husband hat in hand and on bended knee ready to do what it takes. There are times when divorce is the definition of success. Even though this forum is called Marriage Builders, Dr. Harley is not about marriage at all costs. The betrayed spouse is completely justified in deciding upon divorce. Many people choose to try recovery because of a long history, having children together, or religious preferences, but it takes about two years even following all the steps perfectly. The result is a marriage that is stronger and better than the pre-affair marriage.

Your husband will have to learn to be completely transparent from here on out, agree to the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty. Past affairs must never be brought up again.

The antidepressants would be a very helpful first step for you in starting to feel better. It doesn't have to be forever; sometimes they are needed for just a few months to get emotions and negative thoughts more under control.

Thank you LongWayFromHome. Yes not all marriages should be saved. Yet I do highly respect those that can. In my case I feel this affair fits my WS’s personality and past behavior. It’s up to him to work on the core of why he keeps harming me and this marriage. I honestly don’t know if I have another 2 years in me to give.

I am overwhelmed at the level of trauma it’s causing. Just absolutely floored. I am trying to do whatever it takes to get better.

How are you feeling today, Tabby? How did the meeting with the psychiatrist go?

Hello SugarCane. I wish I could report I was doing well but I’m not. I am so frazzled that I went to the wrong location. I literally didn’t see the other address on the card my doctor gave me. I am rescheduled for this coming Monday.

In the meantime I’m not getting any sleep and I’m emotionally exhausted. I can’t wait until I get some help and relief. Thank you so much for asking.

One of the things I’m struggling with on a deeply personal level is the lies and justifications my WH used to justify his affair. It’s tragic and sad that even after the fog the wayward spouse can choose to hold on to the lies they told themselves and their betrayed spouse to continue the affair.

One huge lie my spouse told himself and me was that we were having sexual problems. One day out of the blue he said he couldn’t and wouldn’t have sex with me because I was mean. Then after the discovery of the affair that changed to him being afraid he wouldn’t be able to perform sexually. The goalposts just kept moving. In the end I was also told that he was protecting me from STD's even though he didn’t use protection.

I finally asked my husband did he have erectile dysfunction? Did you have low testosterone? Did he have any issues sexually performing with me? I asked this of 2018 when the affair started and of 2019 is when it continued. He said no he had none of these problems. So I said doesn’t that mean you lied to me? He kept trying to go back to the lie he had told me originally.

All I needed at that moment was the lying to stop and the acknowledgement of the pain and trauma he caused. He literally moved me out of the way sexually so he could be with her guilt free and it hurts me deeply and tremendously. How does love fix that? Where do these feelings of trauma go if they are not dealt with? How do I get over the feelings of rejection?

The facts are my husband chose his side chick over his own wife. He even believed the OW when she said she had no STD’s and had her tubes tied. Yet I was accused of lying during his affair. I know this is projection. I know it’s the continuation of lies so he doesn’t feel guilt for what he did. It’s not just the affair that hurts. It’s what our partners did to us to have the affair and continue the toxic behavior that hurts so bad.

I’m still reading the book so I’m wondering how are these traumas dealt with? I’m looking at individual counseling so I can heal. Or at least try to. Is there any advice elsewhere that can help me heal from the trauma other than attending to each other’s needs?

Can your doctor prescribe temporarily sleep aide until you can see the psychiatrist?

Please stick to one thread, so posters can follow along.

Yes she did do that. I have to remind myself that I can take something for sleep. I’m not used to being so neurotic. I hate this.

Please take them to help you sleep. Self-care is so important during this trying time.

Affairs are based on lies and deceit. They don't make any sense and many intelligent people become very stupid when in an affair. It's one of the reasons 95% of all affairs fall apart on their own and of the marriages that come from affairs, very few make it. They are based on a web of lies and each person knows it. People in an affair can often act like they are a sociopath, having no apparent conscience, not caring whom they hurt. All of this is very common for affairs. They can and do cause trauma and anguish for the betrayed spouse and their family.

In MarriageBuilders, the betrayed spouse can choose to either:

A.) Attempt recovery of the marriage. This means the entire checklist from Surviving an Affair would be followed and each spouse learns to eliminate love busters and meet each others needs. After about two years, the resentment has dissipated because the old ways of the marriage have been replaced with new habits that build and strengthen the romantic and caring love in the marriage. There may be some residual hurt and some triggers but if both spouses continue practicing the new habits, the hurt fades with the replacement of happy memories. If you choose this route, you would be need to be all in. Your husband must not balk at doing anything on the checklist.

or

B.) Divorce your husband and go into Plan B. In Plan B, you would eliminate all contact with your husband. The people who have posted here who had successful Plan Bs trained themselves to avoid even thinking very much about the ex-spouse. They don't talk about him/her and teach their friends and family to avoid passing along information about the ex-spouse. Plan B can be very healing because you are away from the drama.

Once you start getting some good sleep and get on some medication, you will likely start feeling a little better physically and mentally.

Thank you so very much for such an eloquent and clear response and description of what an affair is. It truly is one of the cruelest things someone can do to another. I’m trying to piece together a year of my life I had no vote in changing. This was all done behind my back. I’m also struggling to accept how cruel and heartless my husband was.

Although I’ve been on the other side I can’t relate at all to what or how this was all conducted. I truly see there are gender differences as well. My husband was a complete idiot and treated this very unattractive woman like a drug. He was willing to risk losing me, his home, his job, his reputation and dignity. Over a woman he would’ve never taken a second glance at.

I think it’s common when the BS finally gets a chance to see the person responsible for helping to destroy your family to think really? This is who and what you chose to blow up our marriage over?! It’s shocking and alarming. I know it wasn’t anything special about the OW. She met one simple need and she was a willing participant. She was just available and of low character to sleep with a married man. Women who have standards and dignity don’t do that. Ever.

I’ve sadly once again seen a very dark ugly and deceptive side of my spouse. It’s something no one hopes to ever see. It’s like watching the desperation of an addict. Plus in my case there were other women in the form of strippers. So I’m dealing with his sex addiction too.

I’m still in the process of trying to decide what I truly want. What I do know is I’m tired of suffering. Staying so far has been extremely painful and traumatic and I will leave to get some peace. I might need to move to plan B after all.

Tabby, we have told you many times how these traumas are dealt with, they are never discussed again. The way you HEAL is to stop it. You are engaging in crazy making discussions by trying to get a wayward to make sense of his many and numerous lies, reliving every single slight and hurt. You endlessly bring the trauma of the past into the present which is keeping you sick and worn down. It has to stop. You are endangering your mental health with these discussions.

Trying to get your husband to make sense of all his lies when he was fogged out is like trying to get a falling down drunk to make sense of his activities while stone drunk. That is all you are doing, while traumatizing yourself.

How do you heal? You STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!