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Hello,

My wife and I have seemed to come to an road block. I don't know what else to do. But Let me start by saying that this may take a little bit because no story occurs in a vacuum. I have been married for a little over 8 years. My wife is 12 years younger than me and came into the relationship with a son. We both are serious about our relationship with God. We understand fully that marriage is a commitment and covenant with God. At times That fact has been the only thing keeping HER in it.

First I will list her issues with me as she has laid them out many many many times.

She feels like I have failed her in EVERY way as a husband.
She believes I put others...especially my mom ahead of her.
She thinks that I havent accomplished anything in life worth talking about.
She thinks I have poor work ethic
She thinks I havent provided for her the security she needs in any way
She thinks I do not lead her nor the kids spiritually in any way
She thinks that I think i do no wrong.
She puts her father on a pedestal because they grew up wealthy



I feel like none of those issues she has with me are actually based in facts.

I pay for EVERYTHING we have. Nice apartment. Plenty of food. internet electric ...eating out money..etc everything.

However there were two times where things got really hard...financially...both times to where she and the boy had to live with her parents while I tried to get things back together for us. Which I did through Gods grace. During that time she expressed that she was supporting me and us all the way..Even though it was scary and rough we got through it...

come to find out that she is holding those hard times against me. Saying that I have amounted to nothing. That I have held her back and added nothing to her life. That I am worthless. Put a pin in that...

In my failure and humanity I have occasionally watched porn. In which she has found out and not let me live it down one bit. I've repented each time. I've tried to apologize to her to no avail. She continues to hold it against me.

And lastly she thinks that I put my mother before her. Not because I value my moms opinion over hers....I dont. Not bcause I like y moms cooking over hers....I dont. Not because I spend more time with my mom than her....I definitely dont. But because of a hand ful of incidents over a 8 year period that she deems as evidence. An example is the third time I got laid off I was on my way home and I called my mom to get advice on how to break it to my wife. When she found out that I called my mom first It was all she needed to go off. That was over 6 years ago. She STILL brings that up.

ANyway....I have tried to suck it up and take responsibility for ALL OF IT. but to no avail. Its almost like NOTHING will satisfy her anger. She regularly disrespects me in front of the boys. She regularly degrades me and says all manner of foul things to me. (she never was attracted to me, my mom has my "genitalia") I dont respond in kind...although I REALLLLLY want to. I'm a strong man....but I am angry. And everyone has their breaking point.

HOW do I honor God and love her like Christ loves the church when she seems hell bent on rejecting ANY and EVERYTHING I do. And Places ALL blame on me. Her BAD behavior is only a result of reactions to what I have done wrong... No agency on her part.


There are so many details but I think this is getting to long. I want to please God. I want to love my wife the way that honors her and God. I hate that this is impeding our progress as a couple....but if I am missing something I want to fix it. God put me in charge and I know the buck stops here.....but how do you lead someone who refuses to follow and is upset at EVERY LITTLE THING??

When I try to table issues for to start trying to build bridges back to each other she cant seem to put aside her offenses completely disreagrding the fact that Im putting aside mine in order to try and hear her.

Can this program offered on this site help if the spouse is pretty much not interested at the moment?

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Originally Posted by Husbandtrying
Can this program offered on this site help if the spouse is pretty much not interested at the moment?

Hi, HT, welcome to Marriage Builders!

The answer to this question is a definite YES. It worked for me and my wife when she was not interested.

The first thing I would ask is have you read through Dr. Harley's basic concepts? Those concepts point to the beginning of solutions to the problems you are laying out. For example, I would ask if you always follow the Policy of Joint Agreement as regards your mother - are you doing or saying things your wife is reluctant about when it comes to your mother? If so that would be one thing that would add to her unhappiness. I had the same problem when I came to Marriage Builders. Following the POJA over time would lead to your wife feeling like you put her first.

The second thing I would do would be to encourage you to download the Marriage Builders app and start listening to Dr. Harley's daily radio program - that is hands down the best way to learn the Marriage Builders concepts and see how they apply to real world situations.

The third thing I would mention is to start quietly snooping to make sure your wife doesn't have another man in her life. This is vital not only in case such a thing is going on, but in order to become close enough to her for this program to work.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Husbandtrying
I feel like none of those issues she has with me are actually based in facts.
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In my failure and humanity I have occasionally watched porn.
Quote
And lastly she thinks that I put my mother before her. Not because I value my moms opinion over hers....I dont. Not bcause I like y moms cooking over hers....I dont. Not because I spend more time with my mom than her....I definitely dont. But because of a hand ful of incidents over a 8 year period that she deems as evidence.

You seem to be quick to dismiss or minimize your wife's complaints.
 

Quote
ANyway....I have tried to suck it up and take responsibility for ALL OF IT. but to no avail. Its almost like NOTHING will satisfy her anger.

You are not sucking it up and taking responsibility if you believe the things she's upset about are not actually based on facts.


Quote
I'm a strong man....but I am angry. And everyone has their breaking point.
HOW do I honor God and love her like Christ loves the church when she seems hell bent on rejecting ANY and EVERYTHING I do.

For starters, Christ didn't allow himself to have a "breaking point" when his bride rejected him. Back off from that. You only have a breaking point if you allow yourself to lose control. You choose whether or not to go there.


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  I want to please God. I want to love my wife the way that honors her and God. I hate that this is impeding our progress as a couple....but if I am missing something I want to fix it. God put me in charge and I know the buck stops here.....but how do you lead someone who refuses to follow and is upset at EVERY LITTLE THING??

You're going to have to start by actually listening to hear her. That means not dismissing what she has to say as "not based on facts." 

You're going to have to lead by example for awhile. Meaning, even though she isn't doing her part, you calmly persist in doing yours. As the husband, God has given you the stamina and ability to do this and survive emotionally. She's not going to believe you are sincere for a long time, because she has been hurting for a long time. She will continue to attack you to provoke the responses she has received from you in the past, to try to test your sincerity. You'll have to stay the course despite that, and eventually she will become curious as to why you've changed. At that point she will become willing to put her own weapons down. 


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Do you still watch porn?
How many times have you told her you would stop, but went back to it?


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Originally Posted by Husbandtrying
In my failure and humanity I have occasionally watched porn. In which she has found out and not let me live it down one bit. I've repented each time. I've tried to apologize to her to no avail. She continues to hold it against me.

I missed this the first time through... I'd take a really rigorous approach to give her security on this subject, because it's going to be incredibly hurtful to her. So I recommend the following:

1) Confess to your wife any time you do this
2) Invite your wife to check up on you to make sure you aren't doing it any more - make sure she has your passwords and is invited to view and snoop on all your devices
3) Be careful not to use words that minimize how great an offense this is. For example, saying you did it "in my humanity" can sound like you are saying "I am only human - lots of people do this." What you say about it should not focus on how common or human the offense is, but on how much you know it hurts your wife. There are some things you could do that would hurt your wife more than this, but not many. There are reasons for the hurtful things we do, but there are no excuses, so be careful to make sure your language doesn't even come close to sounding like an excuse. Most women are going to view that phrase as excuse-making.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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this is the support I was looking for. Thank you I will do all of what you have suggested. I will download the app after work.


So 1. I'll admitt I didnt confess it to her when I did it because I tried to just fix it between me and God and because of the shame of it...I didnt want to face having to compile the feeling of failing on top of it.

2. she does check up on everything and has ALL my passwords. to EVERYTHING.

3. How do I protect myself when it comes to her throwing accusation after accusation completely ignoring her own sins against me? The conversations seem to always end up fousing on what Ive done wrong or what she feels Ive done wrong. Im not minimizing what Ive actually done....but her punishments often dont fit the crimes. For instance....I hardly EVER get to watch television or have some down time to myself solely...like ever. Recently a television series came on that i REALLLLLY wanted to watch. it was two hours every sunday for four weeks. One week I told her Id do something she wanted me to do AFTER i watched this show....and BOOM!! that was such a sin on my part. Maybe i could have just done it right then and there.....but 1. I felt like I hardly ever do something like that for myself and 2. It didnt deserve a week of her being mad at me....or maybe it does?!?!? So when I have used phrases like.....Im not perfect....I dont want to sin but i will. Im alluding to the fact that SHE isnt perfect either and gets a hefty load of grace..

but Im taking in everything yall are saying. ANd am going to apply it.

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no. I have moments when Im tempted. Or when I will want to look at a picture not necessarily porn but a woman in a bikini or something stupid like that..... a swimsuit issue....but i havent fallen to that temptation in a while. But even one fall is enough I guess. I would definitly not say Im addicted but Ive periodically struggled with it. I find that it is most tempting when Im feeling inadequate or hurt or disrespected.

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Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Husbandtrying
I feel like none of those issues she has with me are actually based in facts.
Quote
In my failure and humanity I have occasionally watched porn.
Quote
And lastly she thinks that I put my mother before her. Not because I value my moms opinion over hers....I dont. Not bcause I like y moms cooking over hers....I dont. Not because I spend more time with my mom than her....I definitely dont. But because of a hand ful of incidents over a 8 year period that she deems as evidence.

You seem to be quick to dismiss or minimize your wife's complaints.
 

I'm trying not to dismiss them. It does feel like I'm under attack 24/7 ...like everything I do is wrong. Most of the time I dont say anything because she is going to find a problem with it. So it makes me a little defensive.

Quote
ANyway....I have tried to suck it up and take responsibility for ALL OF IT. but to no avail. Its almost like NOTHING will satisfy her anger.

You are not sucking it up and taking responsibility if you believe the things she's upset about are not actually based on facts.


What if some of them arent. What if some of them are based in her OWN perception based on her own hurts and issues that happened BEFORE me? Isnt that possible?

Quote
I'm a strong man....but I am angry. And everyone has their breaking point.
HOW do I honor God and love her like Christ loves the church when she seems hell bent on rejecting ANY and EVERYTHING I do.

For starters, Christ didn't allow himself to have a "breaking point" when his bride rejected him. Back off from that. You only have a breaking point if you allow yourself to lose control. You choose whether or not to go there.


how do you not "Allow" yourself to have a breaking point? Im a fallible man prone to being hurt. I dont really lose control like that....but when you are constantly disrespected as a man...when does it become enabling? I am not supposed to have boundaries??

Quote
  I want to please God. I want to love my wife the way that honors her and God. I hate that this is impeding our progress as a couple....but if I am missing something I want to fix it. God put me in charge and I know the buck stops here.....but how do you lead someone who refuses to follow and is upset at EVERY LITTLE THING??

You're going to have to start by actually listening to hear her. That means not dismissing what she has to say as "not based on facts." 

I try my best not to do that. Im not saying I dont get it right all the time. but somethings she says hit me SOOO left field. Somethings are when she tells me what my intentions were....based on her hunch...and Im like...NO thats not what I was thinking AT ALL!!..lol.

You're going to have to lead by example for awhile. Meaning, even though she isn't doing her part, you calmly persist in doing yours. As the husband, God has given you the stamina and ability to do this and survive emotionally. She's not going to believe you are sincere for a long time, because she has been hurting for a long time. She will continue to attack you to provoke the responses she has received from you in the past, to try to test your sincerity. You'll have to stay the course despite that, and eventually she will become curious as to why you've changed. At that point she will become willing to put her own weapons down. 

i feel you on that. I am refilling my tank between me and the lord so I can do this the right way and for the right reasons.

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Have you read the basic concepts?


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Hi husbandtrying,

Welcome to marriagebuilders. I'm so glad you came over to this forum - you and I met in the other one. I'll be here to chime in from time to time, but I am moving this week so I won't be here a lot.

Marco and Prisca went through a very tumultuous time in their marriage. Prisca will be able to give you a perspective from your wife's viewpoint that you might not have considered, and Marcos will be able to guide you through his application of marriage builders to save his marriage. They recovered their marriage by using marriagebuilders, and definitely are an "A" team! They've previously had in-law tensions as well. They are a great resource for you.

Focus on re-orienting the way you view things in your marriage with their help, even though sometimes it feels you are taking some tough blows at the time. You'll come out the other side equipped to deal with these situations in your marriage so you can take productive steps to change what you need to change.

We can easily minimize our own behaviors and not see them from the other perspective. This site will help open your eyes to that.

When you are ready, the team here will help you engage your wife in a way that will encourage her to change her behaviors as well.

Praying for your success!! Stay strong!!
S. (aka E.)



Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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PS: This is not a "beat up the husbands" site. You're here, so your behavior will be focused on first. Stay with us, get through that, and then you can take next steps when you are ready.

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Originally Posted by Husbandtrying
when Im feeling inadequate or hurt or disrespected.

If you have the book "Love and Respect", do yourself a favor and put it into a garbage pit and light a match to it. All of the Bible-ish it used is a terrible misapplication of Scripture that has hurt untold thousands of marriages. She is not entitled to your love at all costs, and you are not entitled to her obedience (aka 'respect') at all costs. When one partner starts entitling themselves to something they demand it for themselves at the others' expense.

Also, L&R teaches that sex is not "a need the wife doesn't have" and hounds the wife into duty sex. Marriagebuilders finds the reality to be that when someone is coerced into duty sex often enough they build an aversion to it. Marriagebuilders maintains that sex is a beautiful expression of mutual love, desire and excitement. Marriagebuilders can show you a way to mutually meet each other's needs, including sex and affection, in a way you are both enthusiastic to participate.

Marriage builders follows Biblical precepts to have a mutually respectful, mutually loving marriage of extraordinary care for one another.

This is a whole new paradigm, and when you "get" the marriagebuilders way you will see how amazingly Biblical it is and then you will realize how distortedly unBiblical the other approach is.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Originally Posted by Husbandtrying
I'll admitt I didnt confess it to her when I did it because I tried to just fix it between me and God and because of the shame of it...I didnt want to face having to compile the feeling of failing on top of it.
Knowing that you will have to confess anytime you look at porn will go a long way towards eliminating the behavior. Invite accountability.

Quote
3. How do I protect myself when it comes to her throwing accusation after accusation completely ignoring her own sins against me? The conversations seem to always end up fousing on what Ive done wrong or what she feels Ive done wrong.
"I am sorry I have hurt you. Thank you for telling me. I am committed to never hurting you like that again. I am committed to building a beautiful marriage with you that will make you happy."

"I am sorry that I called my mom before talking to you. Thank you for telling me that it hurt you. I will never do that again. In the future I will make sure I talk to you before anyone else."

"I am sorry I looked at porn. I know that it was horribly painful for you. I will never look at it again, and I invite you to check up on me whenever you want."

When she is talking to you about her hurts, don't bring up yours. You will have a time to talk about yours, but it can't be in that moment. If you try, those kinds of conversations tend to turn into tit-for-tats.

When you do approach her about your hurts, it needs to be very carefully worded. Absolutely avoid all value judgements or disrespectful judgements. Avoid all demands and anger.

For example:
"It bothered me when you laughed at my suggestion."

The phrase "It bothered me" or "It bothers me" is key. You don't need to expand beyond that. Don't get hyperbolic. Don't go into details about how badly you were hurt. Simply "It bothers me." This communicates the hurt in a way that doesn't attack. You're not judging her. You're not demanding anything. You're simply conveying information. Let her decide what she will do with that information.

Quote
For instance....I hardly EVER get to watch television or have some down time to myself solely...like ever. Recently a television series came on that i REALLLLLY wanted to watch. it was two hours every sunday for four weeks. One week I told her Id do something she wanted me to do AFTER i watched this show....and BOOM!! that was such a sin on my part. Maybe i could have just done it right then and there.....but 1. I felt like I hardly ever do something like that for myself and 2. It didnt deserve a week of her being mad at me....or maybe it does?!?!?

Several things going on here ...

1. Your marriage needs to be your priority. Right now your recreational activities need to be WITH your wife. Find an activity you can do together in which you can focus your attention on her.

2. If your wife doesn't want you watching a 2 hour show on Sunday, you don't watch a 2 hour show on Sunday. Find something else to do to relax and retreat that she is enthusiastic about. Preferably with her.

3. Don't tell your wife what you're going to do and when. Invite her to plan your time together.


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wow. This is great. I am challenged already. I do have to say....I feel like Ive given up so much of my own respect and personhood that its tough to do more. I feel like the risk is that i lose all semblance of manhood. The fear is that she will take the reigns and take advantage of it without her feeling like she has a part to play as well. I dont want to be disrespected like I have been. DEEPLY disrespected. lol Like personally taken verbal shots from her that I have never taken from anyone in my life ever. So just being open....I feel vulnerable to total annilhilation..lol Maybe thats hyperbolic. But I want her. and I know together.....on the same page....we can totally rock. So Im willing to dig deeper. To find out if I really am operating as the scum. I can accept that but I have to be guided through it and I believe this site is a god send.

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ok Prisca...


alrighty......You are freaking challenging me here..(thats a good thing) .lololol.

I hear ya.

Its not easy to say yes to some of your suggestions. Goes against the nature to preserve ones self. Like letting go of my rights TOTALLY!!...Thats friggin scary!!

Just a question tho..

If I know I may mess up again in the future...as I'm trying to create new habits....wouldnt saying "Im commited to NEVER doing it again" setting myself up for failure??cause if I say that...17 years from now she WILL remind me of it if I do something remotely like it in the future...






ps as I go through this marraigebuliders program...would you and MArkos be willing to be available from time to time to help me through? Im humbling myself to try and ask for help.

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Husbandtrying
Can this program offered on this site help if the spouse is pretty much not interested at the moment?

Hi, HT, welcome to Marriage Builders!

The answer to this question is a definite YES. It worked for me and my wife when she was not interested.

The first thing I would ask is have you read through Dr. Harley's basic concepts? Those concepts point to the beginning of solutions to the problems you are laying out. For example, I would ask if you always follow the Policy of Joint Agreement as regards your mother - are you doing or saying things your wife is reluctant about when it comes to your mother? If so that would be one thing that would add to her unhappiness. I had the same problem when I came to Marriage Builders. Following the POJA over time would lead to your wife feeling like you put her first.

The second thing I would do would be to encourage you to download the Marriage Builders app and start listening to Dr. Harley's daily radio program - that is hands down the best way to learn the Marriage Builders concepts and see how they apply to real world situations.

The third thing I would mention is to start quietly snooping to make sure your wife doesn't have another man in her life. This is vital not only in case such a thing is going on, but in order to become close enough to her for this program to work.



Yes Ive read through it. Reading it again. Right now I dont know what the "Policy of Joint Agreement" is. as far as what Im saying or doing?? I have tried to rack my brain. She sometimes takes things that my mom does that may be annoying and builds them up in her heart as attacks on her. If I dont immediately take my wifes side she thinks Im putting my mom above her. This IS NOT ever relayed to my mom from me. When my wife brings me a grievance ..... its always when Im NOT there. And because I know that she assumes motives from me that I KNOW for sure are not right.... I question whether her judgement of my mom is correct at times. Does that make sense?

My wife can be very suspicious of people in general. So its easy for her to turn a regular fault of a person in to a targeted attack on her. But the POJA sounds like a great tool. Im going to go through all of the resources here.

as far as checking to see if she doesnt have another man..... whew...never even thought about that being a possibility.

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Originally Posted by Husbandtrying
ps as I go through this marraigebuliders program...would you and MArkos be willing to be available from time to time to help me through? Im humbling myself to try and ask for help.

We will try to be here, HT, and you can also email Dr. Harley himself on the radio show (I highly recommend it!)

So, have you read the Basic Concepts?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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This is a companion read to the Policy of Joint Agreement. I would read this first so the POJA explanations can be understood in this context:

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/the-giver-and-taker.htm

Here is the POJA:
https://www.marriagebuilders.com/the-policy-of-joint-agreement.htm


When you use the POJA together, negotiating never needs to be tense because you can both rest in confidence that nothing will happen until you are mutually enthusiastic about the outcome. This takes away the need to manipulate, fight or gain at the other person's expense. If you can't immediately find a solution you are both excited about, let it rest a bit and come back to it again later.

When my husband and I POJA, we feel like we're going shopping with lottery winnings. We both know we're going to get a solution that we're both excited about. We don't dread differences of opinions about decisions; we look at them as an opportunity to enjoy exploring options together. Your marriage can reach this point as well if you learn to identify the enemies of marital negotiating: selfish demands, disrespect and anger so they are not pulled out of either of your arsenals in order to win the decision at the other person's expense.

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Question: Would you die for your wife?


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She sometimes takes things that my mom does that may be annoying and builds them up in her heart as attacks on her. If I dont immediately take my wifes side she thinks Im putting my mom above her. This IS NOT ever relayed to my mom from me. When my wife brings me a grievance ..... its always when Im NOT there. And because I know that she assumes motives from me that I KNOW for sure are not right.... I question whether her judgement of my mom is correct at times. Does that make sense?

My wife can be very suspicious of people in general. So its easy for her to turn a regular fault of a person in to a targeted attack on her. .
All of this is a Disrespectful Judgement of your wife. It is a big withdrawal from your wife's Lovebank.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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