Hi everyone,

Thank goodness for this wonderful forum and all who are willing to chip in with advice.
I am afraid I might have discovered MB, or at least this forum too late. You see, D day for me was late January this year, so 5mths ago.

Acting on some strong gut feel (plus things weren't great since start of 2019 with him going away on frequent biz trips and me stressed and occupied with our 2 daughters, younger one a horrible sleeper and tantrums that are generally difficult to manage), I snooped, discovered evidence and dug him out of bed for confrontation. It took him until the next night to admit that yes he has been cheating on me for the last year, turned physical the last 6 months.. that's all he was willing to say. No details of AP, no location no detail of how they met. This was on a tuesday

He agreed to go for counselling with me saturday of the same week, but didnt like the counsellor as he felt threatened, so we subsequently switched counsellor. It was about 1.5 mths (3 sessions) in that I discovered he had continued lying to me and been seeing his AP under guise of business trips. I realised stupidly late that all these time, his passport was filled with immigration stamps from Kuala Lumpur (Malaysian capital city, Malaysia being our closest neighbour up north). Also, his AP is apparently innocent as she has no idea that he was married with kids! I cant even hate her!!!

Around this time (March) the covid situation here escalated and we were basically stuck at home with no biz trips. His attitude towards me was quite warm at first but he had a few outbursts, shouting at me to give him space when I tried to speak about the affair. I was willing to talk and work it out but he just kept asking for space . we agreed not to expose the affair to anyone else before we discussed more (on hindsight this was too stupid, emotional and desperate of me). However as the weeks passed he became colder and colder.

In April, finally spoke to my sis in law (his sister) about it. She was emotionally supportive and agreed that I should refrain from bringing up the affair too much and try to be a good wife to appeal to him,kinda like plan A (this was before I came across Plan A and B). However he didnt show any improvement in attitude towards me. I basically endured coldness and resentment. At this point I should mention that due to our younger daughters bad sleeping habits, she has been sharing our bed so, so intimacy is bad for the past few years, and obviously [censored] in the last year since the affair. We did quickies on the couch and hugs and chats were far and few since he works late into the night doing calls with the US.

Last week, after about 4months since D day and 2mths of covid lockdown, he confessed that he no longer had any feelings for me and the shame and guilt is too much to bear. He said hebwants to move out to ease his discomfort since he cant face me, and that the covid lockdown was the only reason why he hadn't.

He doesnt want to work on the marriage since he doesnt think that I would ever forgive him. He mentioned about the shame and guilt again, that it is too difficult for him to face me let alone rebuild. I asked him if he would pursue a relationship with AP if she did end up forgiving him, and he said maybe.

At this point I am not sure where we are at Plan A /plan B.. or headed towards Plan divorce. Should I go ahead and give him the separation he so badly wants? I am almost at my limit with my heart shredded from the aloofness and disrespect he has been showing me. Should I even try for my girls? They do have a nice relationship with dad although I'm not sure he really loves them given that he abandoned them and spent like 25% of his time abroad with AP.

Thanks in advance for any advice :~(

Welcome to MB and sorry for what has brought you here.

Other than his sister, who else have you exposed to?

How did he meet this OW? Was he traveling to her area under the guise of a business trip?

Do you have any spyware in his devices?

How old are your children? Even if you do go into Plan B, you still need to expose.

Have you read the exposure thread?

Hi feefifofum. Welcome to MB. I am very sorry about the horror you've been enduring these past few months.

You need to:

Try and do more snooping. You need to find out this woman's identity and whether this affair was connected with his work. If it is, you need to inform his work about this. If you can get some spyware on his electronic devices, you will find out much valuable information for today and the future.

Once you have received more guidance from us, expose the affair immediately, to close family members on both sides, all at once. There are top posters on this forum who will coach you through exposure using Facebook and the like. Someone will post to you about this shortly. Who are your close family on both sides? Are they all based in the USA? Are both sets of parents still alive?

Expose to your children aged four years and older in a child-appropriate manner.

Disbelieve what he tells you about this woman not knowing he is married. Until and unless you speak directly to her, take this to be a lie. Can you find out her identity? If so, you could expose on her side that she is having an affair and breaking up a marriage. See what snooping you can do.

Are you working abroad as an ex-pat? Who has the permission to work - you, him or both of you? Are there any rules that govern whether you can stay in the country if you separate?

Secure your finances prior to telling him to sling his hook, which you will do within the next few days once you have sorted out your residency requirements. The length of time that you have put up with his affair and his cold-shouldering of you has already harmed you, and it hasn't made him think that he should stay with you. He is ready to leave. Get him out of your home. Find out what the lockdown rules are in your country, and try and exploit any rule that states that a person can leave their home in order to escape abuse or marital breakdown. In my country, lockdown rules do not prevent people from moving house once and for all. They do prevent people going backwards and forwards, or couch-surfing and the like. It will not be for you to sort out where he goes. He can do a virtual viewing and move out in days, or he can permanently move to a friend's house.

Alternatively, if you think it would good for you and the kids, consider moving back to the USA to be near your family. If the only thing keeping you in a foreign country is your marriage, and if it wouldn't be too big a wrench to leave, then leave.

Please read Exposure 101

Thanks so much SugarCane and BrainHurts for getting back so quickly! Sorry for long post again...

Sorry I wasnt clearer in my earlier post. We are both Singaporeans not US citizens. He just works for a US company which requires frequent conf calls. We are living in our own home, so wrt housing situation, we're fine.

He met OW in Vietnam, where he was on one of his work trips. Guess it was a chance encounter but she is probably pretty fit and attractive given that she works out. They first met at the hotel gym, then he bumped into her again the same night at hotel restaurant. He never wears his wedding ring cos he claims it is troublesome to keep taking it off for gym. So no ring marks. I'm pretty sure she is Malaysian chinese based in capital city KL as that's what 60% of the immigration stamps say.

I have absolutely no idea how else to snoop. We have always had the same phone lock code so I found my evidence only from his email and chat apps. Since I found out, he hasnt tried to hide his phone. Maybe hes very confident that I would find nothing. Or that he really stopped contacting OW. He has always been clever and careful, he delete everything, no picture, no names no address. He even had 3 names on the chat app contact so I cant tell which is it. He has since deleted that app, and since I do not know his ID or pw, I can't retrieve anything. It works kinda like snapchat so stuff gets cleared. I believe his work phone would contain evidence, cos I dont have the code. But since its company property, he or company could sue me for breaking in.

From what he was willing to reveal, the chats turned into something deeper cos they had fitness as common topic, plus he was able to be a different or better or happier person with her.

We dont have a very typical romantic start to our marriage. Dated for a year before he proposed, and we got pregnant 3mths after. Our big girl was born 4 months after we got married. You could say we never had a newly wed life. We kinda were parents first before we were each others spouses. So, parents > spouses. This sort of set the tone for our marriage. Girls are now 8 and 3.75

There werent much chance to spend time together all these time, as we both work pretty long hours and his mom helps with the kids during the day. As mentioned I usually settle the kids while he works late into the night. That led us to grow apart of our 8 years of marriage (wld be 9 this dec).

At this point, his brother and sister in law also knows. I have not told my parents, currently refraining cos my mom got diagnosed with dengue fever yesterday shes in a lot of discomfort from the symptoms so I need to wait till she gets well. However, since he wants to move out (asap prob within days) and would need his mums help to watch our girls, he would be revealing to his parents. Guess it wld just be brief, I.e we are separating with the intention of divorce. Friends common and from both sides do not know yet. We will speak to our 8yo. 3.75 will be told separately.

He seem to be really ready to move on. With the travel restriction, I'm certain hes not gonna be able to fly to his AP.. but if he moves out I would not be able to snoop or keep tabs anymore.

For me I am not certain I should fight for this because he has turned into someone I do not recognise anymore. When I look at him, I see no signs of the man I married.

It sounds more like I'm mentally preparing for divorce than trying to find success with plan b huh?

Just to add - he totally doesnt mind anyone knowing.. especially our families, and even our girls. He just wants to get it out there and then get away from me..
For him to behave like that, i dont think he would want to work on the marriage even if things end with OW (I think it has ended). Feels like he is so over it, long before I found out. Just being selfish and a coward perhaps, bidding his time.. dreading the day I inevitably expose him.

Expose properly because it is the right thing to do, not because you think he will mind other people knowing. Draw up a list of exposure targets and do what it says in the exposure link that BrainHurts sent you.

You do not sound desperate to recover the marriage, and he seems completely checked out. How can you get him to maintain you and the girls and your house when he leaves? Is there such thing as a legal separation in your country? You should see a lawyer before you tell him to leave, to find out how he can be mandated to support you.

I'm not urging you to end the marriage, because where there are children, it would normally be better for the couple to overcome the affair and restore the marriage. It might still be possible to do this even after he leaves, if he ends the affair and begs you to take him back. But for now, his presence is hurting you and you need to separate from him.

Don't worry yet whether this is the end of the marriage or whether you should divorce now. See what happens after you have been separated for a while. First: look at your legal rights, do a proper exposure and then tell him to get the heck out.

Hello FFF, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sugarcane gave you fantastic advice. It is extremely important that you find out who the OW is so you can expose the affair. You say that your H doesn't mind people knowing, then why is he hiding her identity? If that is so, ask him tonight for her name and contact information.

Are you able to get into his work phone and get ahold of their communications? What other ways does he commuicate with her?

We are telling you to expose, because it is the most important thing you can do. But you have nothing TO expose if you don't have her name and background. It is the most important step in recovery of a marriage. It is also the most important step if you don't stay married because exposure is devastating to affairs. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposing it will kill it or hasten its death. Even if you get divorced, you don't want to have to deal with a fogged out wayward and be forced to compete with an OW for his income.

I really appreciate your advice so far SugarCane and MemoryLane.

He has adamantly refused to talk about his affair or AP from Dday. I have tried so hard to dig but he kept it very clean. The only reason I came to know about her location is his passport stamps.. so his MO so far is: don't say anything, only confirm presented evidence. I do not have his work phone passcode. So that is a dead end.

I will expose to family and friends when he moves out (aim is by next week). We actually had a talk last night (this morning for you guys) and went through some logistic points on how to manage kids and what to do with house and car. Essentially he has offer to contribute to any childcare expenses I would incur and give me access to use of car anytime (it's super expensive to get a car in our country, about usd 100k for a new Honda mpv).

I will check with a lawyer if there is any need to draw up a separation agreement and if that would be enforceable. However, this seems a bit final and whenever lawyers get involved things tend to turn ugly. I know he wants to keep it amicable. Kinda like I'll be fair and friendly, just let me go.

I still dont want a divorce and hoping he would change to be the man he could be for the girls and I, but some strong words were exchanged last night and its obvious that his heart is hardened. When he was a kid, my in laws pretty much left him on his own while they made ends meets so you could say he brought himself up. And because he is self-made, he only listens to himself. There isn't anyone he respects who could get him to listen, or anyone he is afraid of disappointing.

As of now, I will first focus on the logistics of separation and creating a routine for my kids.

Thanks again for your advice..

Just to clarify, exposure means telling everyone he is having an affair and asking for their help in ending it. That is why her name and marital status are so important. Can you get in touch with any of his colleagues from the Vietnam trip to find out who she is? Also your 8 year old daughter needs to be told in a child appropriate way. Never let the wayward tell the story first, he will spin something about how you two were already estranged or even that you pushed him into this. Once another version of the story is out there, it is much harder to change it. You will just look bitter and revengeful.

Please read Exposing to Children

Have you read the exposure thread yet?

Filing a separation agreement is extremely important in order to protect you financially. Without it, your husband can leave you high and dry and you will be without any income. Don't think he wouldn't do that? This is a person who is abandoning his family for an adtulerous affair. You can bet he will do it. His affair comes before you all.

Please do not give up trying to find out who she is, even if you have to hire a private detective. Finding her identity is the key to saving your marriage. Do you want to save your marriage?

If you don't have actual FACTS and not even a NAME, exposure is pretty useless. He can just dismiss it and call you insane. You need a NAME. You need to track her down so you can raise hell in her life, hopefully ending the affair. Exposure is the most important weapon in fighting an affair. You don't have the use of that weapon without basic FACTS.

The story is so much like mine. I am now in stuck of getting a divorce, which I don't want to. However, I can't stand him keep having affair. It has been almost 4 months since I discovered on Christmas Eve. He became sneaky since February. However, I found more and more evidence in February, March, and now April. I told myself no more searching his texts with his lover. I need to move on. He changed all passwords on his computer and cell phone. So I have no way to search anyway. He sort of like he wants to be nice and friendly with me. He talks about after divorce, we can still go to walk together or go to read together. WTF. He has an affair. It's not like we both just don't think we can work out. There is a 3rd person.

I wonder what feefifofun's life now?

xxxxxx what about starting your own thread on Surviving an Affair? We may be able to help you. Start by giving us the timeline of your marriage, whether you have children together, your ages and whether this is a first marriage for you both. We can help you bust up the affair but time is of the essence. Very helpful that you know the identity of the Other Man(OM). For now, do not tell your husband anything, behave as if nothing has changed, the shock of surprise when you drop the atom bomb is very effective and we will help you prepare that.

Male cheaters generally cake-eat by the way meaning attempt to have both the affair partner and their marriage. Busting up the affair is designed to shake them out of that idea.