So grateful for this forum. My UH and I have been married almost 18 years in 2002. We have 3 kids, daughter (15 yo, knows about the 2 year affair) and twins, a daughter and a son (12 yo's, both twins know older sister knows something they don’t know about A). I have always known that my UH has avoided painful or difficult feelings. I have accepted him for this but we have always struggled to have a close friendship that I desire as he hasn’t ever been open to sharing stories about his childhood, setting goals or making plans. His mother has always pushed him (and all of us) toward happiness, no one is allowed to complain or have a sad feeling. Last d-day was Oct 2019 revealing a 2 year EA and SA. He made an effort in January that was promising. He voiced his ambivalence in Feb, March, but checked out in April, May, June. I love him and hope for success for Plan B effort. If not, after a lot of pain and suffering, I have discovered that I know i am strong and can move on and find happiness again in my own life and maybe again with someone else. But, based on the advice of STeve Harley and then of one of the postings in this forum, I wanted to post my own thread for feedback on my own situation.

History:
1996: Met
2002: Married
2005: First child born
2008: Twins born prematurely, 14 weeks early. Very challenging time for all of us.
2012: Caught my husband in a sexting with a random woman from high school. We moved on and had happy times. But not much was done to address it as we were clueless about how to respond to such an event.
2016: My father died and I suffered a lot of grief, so did he. During this year, we struggled but he told me he would love me forever and nothing would ever change that.
2017: In November, he was caught in an emotional affair with another employee in his firm who was in a leadership development program with him. I caught them texting on a home iPad and texted them both. He seemed to want to work on it. We started marriage therapy in Jan 2019.
2018: In Jan, started marriage therapy. After 1 month of therapy, he ended it saying too expensive (even though we can afford it) and never found another person. Unbelievably, we never followed up afterward and got a new therapist.
2019: In the fall, I discovered that the 2017 affair never ended and turned physical in 2018 upon AP’s divorce (one month after UH canceled therapy). UH told the AP that he wanted to end their relationship but I found a secret text that let me to believe that they had a private conversation about the ending. I sensed that UH told AP to just hang on while UH gives our marriage a “good old college try”. My UH worked on our relationship for about 90 days (which i think his IC suggestion). He also ran into AP or most likely communicated with AP during this time. By 90 days into “recovery”, he checked out of our marriage. Again, me totally clueless about how affairs and addiction works.
2020: Jan, we did an amazing EFT weekend intensive therapy and had amazing reconnection which faded upon return home. In Feb 2020, 110 days into our recovery, UH asked to move out and stopped marriage therapy. On March 1, 2020, UH moved out. Over the course of Feb - June my husband has said: "I don’t want to put the work in", "my heart isn’t in it", "i don’t think my feelings will change for you", and "i don’t want to deal with my pain". When I would ask what i did to make him not want to work on it and he says “nothing”. He also said, when the kids were so upset with grief and the uncertainty of the situation that he “just wants to finalize everything to get rid of the uncertainty for our kids since he is certain about his direction of ending this” All this time, not admitting to an affair (which was obvious to me and Steve Harley whom I saw in April/May).
June 2020: this past week, I hired a PI who confirmed this past weekend that he is still seeing her. I have read SAA and talked to Steve Harley. Steve suggests moving directly to Plan B. This week, I have talked to an attorney and will be ready to file for divorce if UH starts to lose in Plan B.


The AP is a few years older than us and more senior than him in their company. They are in different business units. She is also recently divorced from her husband. AP divorce was finalized just about the time that UH reports that they started their sexual affair (Feb 2018) which was just after UH canceled our initial marriage therapy. UH once reported that AP has a challenging relationship with her daughters. I don’t think AP has custody as she said to him in her text chain how easy and great their life would be if they were to be together because they would have no distractions. Before covid, they were working in the same building but he reported they didn’t see each other unless they made plans. Since covid, he works 100% from home so any interactions would be planned. As far as exposure, I found her mother, brother, ex-husband on Facebook.

Others that know about the infidelity and can be an influence going forward:
1. Our good friend - i told my girlfriend of 35 years long time friend immediately.
2. A friend of mine who just went through a divorce after an affair - i told her in November.
3. His college friend - a woman we both trust, like sister to us, and who we both agreed would be a source of support for him.
4. My mother - i told her when she arrived for xmas 2019
5. My husband’s parents - he told them before xmas 2019. He didn't tell them when he checked out of our relationship. they were shocked when i told them myself when I called them to ask them for help with supporting my kids (since my husband wasn't showing up for them). I recently spoke to them to ask them for their help to encourage him to work on our marriage. They adamantly refuse to encourage him to attempt to work on his marriage. They say it’s up to him to make that decision on his own. It’s peculiar to me, but there seems to be some strong passion behind that comment and some info that I don't know. but they have made it 50 years of marriage. Plus my MIL is 100% focused on happy feelings only and only wants everyone to “be happy”. I told my in-laws that I suspected he was still seeing her and they said they would be very shocked if this was true.
6. My brother - told him in January and very supportive to me and reached out to my husband to offer support.
7. His brother - he spoke to his brother who is considered the “worrier” of his family but in reality, his brother is just normal and expresses his feelings and has empathy for people instead of judgements. My brother-in-law expressed to me his empathy for the situation and expressed that he wanted to make sure that he didn’t lose contact with my kids and his sadness for how this is affecting our entire family. But he told me that my UH has not said not 1 negative thing about me and is only focused on getting the kids comfortable with the new situation.
8. Tribe of 12 close friends - after he moved out, i told the rest of our close friends of 25 years. I gave him plenty of opportunity to reach out to the guys in this group but after a few prompts, i told the wives who ultimately told their husbands.
9. His 2 best college buddies - after many years of barely talking, they speak on a weekly basis about music topics.


My questions:
1. Based on your experience with advising people like me on this forum, does he seem long gone?
2.. When I think about telling his college friends and his APs family, my heart starts to race and I feel panic. How can I communicate to these individuals without sending myself into panic? I want to take the high road and express this info so that everyone knows my intent is to save the marriage?
3. Does the Plan B letter have to say that only I made mistakes? We were both acting in a way that was waiting to receive instead of giving love to eachother prior to his affair. My UH also says that I did nothing to cause him to leave. But, we both felt ignored and not enough. I get what Plan B is trying to do, only try to meet his needs and convince him to return, but our marriage was a coordinated mess before he left. Neither of us were doing anything to meet the other’s needs. I was begging that we start. I feel upset about being the only one to take blame in that letter. Is it ok to say sorry for my part and how we weren't meeting eachothers needs but hope we can start on this together.
4. Is it a bad idea to talk to him in person to let him know that I know that the affair is still ongoing. Or do i convey my feelings only in the letter?
5. Any other tips for me?

Thanks so much. P.S. apologies if i didn't use the correct abbreviations and this signature prob isn't right either!

BW: 47 (me)
UH: 48
Married 2002 (18 years in August); Met in 1996 (together for 24 years)
3 Kids: DD 15 yo; DD (twin) 12 yo; DS (twin) 12 yo
D-day #1: 2012 (sexting/flirting with random high school person on FB, I discovered, ended almost immediately after starting)
D-day #2: Nov 2017 (after 2 month EA)
D-day #3: Oct 2019 (same AP, after 2 year EA; SA started after her divorce finalized).
UH Moved out: March 2020

LadyFortitude, I'm so sorry for the reasons that bring you to this forum. It would be a good idea to cut down your questions to just a few paragraphs, making it easier for us to help you.

Just to clear up - Plan B is to protect YOU. It's not to try and bring your husband back. Trying to win back an uninterested wayward husband will break you down quickly. Plan B is to help protect your mental and physical health from the chaos and pain of an ongoing affair. Also, Plan B will help protect any feelings you still have for him. If you stay and try and win him back, you may suffer an emotional breakdown. It will force the OW to meet all his needs. Most affairs die a natural death within a couple of years.

You can adjust the Plan B letter to your situation. Its purpose is to lay out the conditions for his return, if that's what you want. You will tell him your choice of intermediary. As to its wording, you do not have to say you are at fault; you can leave out that part. The idea is to make it a brief, kind letter closing the door to him as long as he is unwilling to end the affair.

Keep your evidence of the affair close at hand. Don't tell people you suspect him of having an affair; tell them you have irrefutable proof and ask for their help. Your in-laws are making a big mistake in not supporting the marriage and not telling their wayward son to stop having his affair. By wanting everyone to "be happy," they will end up hurting their relationship with you and even with their grandchildren.

As to exposing to your friends and family, tell them you have evidence he is having an affair and ask for their help in supporting the marriage. The panic you feel will probably subside as you start the exposure and get some support. They may not all be supportive, but some surely will be.

No one here can tell you whether your husband is long gone. We don't know. But by following Steve Harley's guidance and the guidance here on this forum, you will have your best chance at recovering your marriage. If the marriage is not recovered, YOU will recover and be healthy.

Antidepressants would probably be very helpful right now. You won't need them forever, just to get you through this very hard time.

Just want to confirm some information.

You haven’t exposed to anyone on the OW‘s (other woman) side?

OW and your WH (wayward husband) work together. So this is a workplace affair?

And you haven’t exposed to all of your children?

Have you read the exposure 101 thread?

Here Exposure 101

And read How to Plan B Correctly

Hi BrainHurts - Thank you so much for your response. And apologies for delayed response which was bad timing for me considering i am ready to start plan B. I couldn't figure out how to reply but realized, being a newbie to the forum, that I had been logged out. I finally noticed and logged back in and got access to the reply button.

To answer your questions..

I did read SAA and Exposure 101. I had not yet seen 'how to do plan B correctly". Thank you for sharing that. Very helpful.....I have an intermediary set up, I have changed garage codes. I am calling a locksmith tomorrow. At present, nothing odd is going on with our finances but I have access to everything and I have an attorney ready and on point to file for divorce if he starts acting inappropriately.

Yes, it is a workplace affair. They don't work in the same business unit of their company. They met in a leadership development training program about 2 years ago. They have mastered the art of using the company's email, instant message, and conference calling platform to communicate and enable their affair. I don't want to expose him at work since I don't want to jeopardize his job and his stable income since I work part time and can't afford our household expenses without his income.

Yes, as of today, all three of my children know. My 15 yo daughter found out a few months ago about the affair but she thought the affair was over (as did I). Today, I told the 12 yo twins that their dad wants to be with another woman. I told all three children that he is definitely still with her. I told them that they will notice that I will no longer be speaking or seeing him going forward as a result of the ongoing affair. I told them that I will be asking him to not come into the house. Our house is situated that I shouldn't even have to see him or his car if he drives by to pick up the kids. They can walk out to his car to get in and he can drop them off and drive away. Is this a mistake to not have a friend drop them off and pick them up? We all hate the process of them getting picked up as no one is ever ready and they all forget things. It's so stressful but having a friend bring them and pick them up seems so embarrassing for my kids to be subjected to this.

Next step is to tell my husband that I know the affair is still ongoing and I don't want to speak going forward (per the PBL). I actually think he will be delighted that we all know so he can move forward with 'finalizing". Should I tell my husband by phone, email him the letter or drop off a paper copy of the letter? I think i have to do it today or first thing tomorrow since my kids are going to see him tomorrow. Then, i have to call over to my in-laws and all of our friends and maybe tomorrow to his college friends.

I have not yet contacted the OW ex husband, brother or mother. I am still struggling with reaching out to any of them. I hate being the one who will be informing her parents of her poor behavior. This is giving me such pause. What is the easiest way you have seen for a BW to accomplish notifying the OW and OW Family with as little discussion as possible. I found the ex-husband on instragram and i think i found his cell phone number and land line. I was thinking about starting with him. Do i absolutely have to make a phone call the OW mother/father or will an electronic notification work?

I have not yet dropped off the letter to the OW. I might have a friend drop it off to her house after i deliver my husbands letter to him.

Please let me know if I am doing any of this out of order. It seemed like i should tell him first that I know his affair is still ongoing but not reveal anything else about my plan to expose to others. Then, I have to start telling our friends and family about it. And then the OW contacts. Is it a mistake if i take ~2 days to make all of these phone calls?

Thanks so much for any advice.

BW: 47 (me)
UH: 48
Married 2002 (18 years in August); Met in 1996 (together for 24 years)
3 Kids: DD 15 yo; DD (twin) 12 yo; DS (twin) 12 yo
D-day #1: 2012 (sexting/flirting with random high school person on FB, I discovered, ended almost immediately after starting)
D-day #2: Nov 2017 (discovered by me after 2 month EA)
D-day #3: Oct 2019 (same AP, after 2 year EA; SA started after her divorce finalized in Feb 2018).
UH Moved out: March 2020
D-Day #4: June 27 (same AP, hired PI who provided confirmation)
Plan B: starting on July 5th

Hi LongWayFromHome: Thank you for your response. I was delayed in responding because I didn't notice for a couple of days that I was logged out of the forum but finally figured it out and got access to the reply button.

Thanks for the reminder about the plan B and that it is to protect me. It's been absolute hell. I am slowing moving out of fight for my marriage mode so it is something to get used to. I have been in this mode for way too long and I am actually looking forward to not having to talk to him going forward as my heart rate goes way up every time he reaches out, especially now that I know he is lying to me again.

Thanks for all of your suggestions. I am about to kick off Plan B. i hope it goes as well as it can.

You expose without telling your WH (Wayward Husband.) Just do it and do it all quickly, like a tsunami. I wouldn't bother with telling the OW's ex-husband, unless you know they are still friends. The point of exposure is to support you and and to put pressure on your husband. Exposure will make everything happen more quickly. It's not fun to be having an affair when everyone knows about it. There will some who don't care, but you will also find support from those who do care.

Your Plan B letter should be delivered in letter form by someone else. Once you send out the Plan B letter, make sure you close up all the loopholes and don't engage with him at all until he is willing to end the affair and meet your conditions.

Are your finances in order and protected from your husband? You said you have seen a lawyer. I assume this has all been taken care of?

LadyFortitude sorry for you having to deal with this. It saddens me to think of the impact on the children.

I want to comment on something that caught my eye in your thread above. You mentioned you decided not to expose at the workplace given the potential negative financial implications on his ability to support you, but as I understand it is a workplace affair. As far as everything I have learned from Dr. Harley during the last 10 years, he seems to always suggest exposure at the workplace as a powerful tool to break-up a workplace affair so as to give your marriage a better chance. I cannot think of a single time when he has not suggested this, even in situations where it may lead to the spouse losing his/her job.

He has also indicated that people can find new jobs and anyway the wayward spouse will have to leave the workplace regardless if marital recovery is to happen. This is because the WS can never be tempted to restart things in future by having any contact with the affair partner. Affairs often - even usually - start at workplaces. I would guess this affair will continue as long as they both work there.

I realize exposure is very, very hard, but it would seem to make sense to not skip this step.

I agree with Blackhawk.
Expose to their employer!

Look at it this way -- it will cause massive disruption to their affair. They can no longer present themselves to their co-workers as a "new" relationship.
Likely one or both of them will lose their position -- which is GOOD for your marriage. He can't continue working their if you want to recover your marriage.
(that should have happened years ago...) He will forever be suseptable to the OW - you can't send him off to work everyday -- the affair will eventually restart.

If you're not willing for him to quit that job, you may as well file for divorce now.

I would also inform the OW's ex-husband - as a kindness.
He may have no idea why his marriage ended. This may answer a lot of questions for him.
And he may still have influence with her.

Agree 100% with Lexxy and Blackhawk! Dr. Harley would recommend you expose to the employer. Please see the thread in my signature.

Thanks everyone for your advice. MelodyLane, Lexxxy, and BlackHawk. thanks so much for your advice on reconsidering the workplace exposure. My fear of loss of money/income outweights everything. It would be really really bad for us if he lost his job. He is, emotionally, a mess right now. Not sure whaat/how he would find anything if he was fired.So, I am still really hesitant about it but am going to think on it some more and see if I can get more comfortable with it.


I wanted to provide a status update and see if you have any further advice at this point. Also i have a few questions at the bottom..

Status update:
Notified husband: I was speaking to my husband about the children and told him I knew about the affair. Just after I told him that I didn't want to speak to him any longer, he said that we should think about talking to a mediator (to get a divorce). I said no and reminded what I had just told him about not speaking to him. He has said several times to me that he doesn't want to deal with his pain of recovery and is completely done with this marriage so I am not very hopeful but going through the motions anyway. I cannot make him want to fix himself.

The next day, after work, I dropped off the plan b letter to his house (we separated March 1), while he was out. He was visiting with a good friend of ours...talking to her (and getting a piece of her strong opinion) for the first time since I had exposed his affair to her the previous night.

I just have to say THANK YOU to all of you. I have to say that I have felt ABSOLUTELY GLORIOUS with the new freedom of not having to talk to his him and deal with his lies or anything he has to share. It actually helps quell the anger and rage I have for him.

Other exposure includes....

WH Parents: As expected, they won't be any help. I told his dad. My MIL was not able to join as she had a bad fall a few days prior. He didn't know that the affair was still ongoing but his response was "I would never tell him to do anything or influence him to make any decision in his life". Pretty sad! He closed with " our son doesn't tell us anything about your marriage". So, no chance of any help from him and his wife won't do anything other than what her husband says.

WH brother: he said something similar about how he is here for his brother but doesn't want to hear private info about our marriage. I reminded him that an affair isn't part of our marriage so i was hoping for his help. He also said that my WH doesn't share anything with them. I wanted to scream the following: "BECAUSE NO ONE IN YOUR FAMILY ALLOWS FOR ANY SAD FEELINGS" I asked to speak with both my Brother in law and his wife, but he called me alone his wife wasn't on the phone.

Twelve Closest Friends: I called our 12 closest friends which we have been a close knit group for over 25 years. This took me 3 days to have all of these conversations as each of these people are very important to both of us. All of these individuals listened and supported. Several of the woman had heard from me already. None of the men had heard any of these details from my WH except that he had moved out. I asked for their support and asked them to use their influence to persuade him to stop his affair. All of them agreed to reach out to support me and my WH. There are at least 4-5 people form this group who will absolutely tell him what they are thinking and use their influence. Two of them already spoke to him within two days of my notification of them.

WH College Buddies: They have been talking every week since COVID started. One of them was very receptive and wanted to plan a time to talk to my WH. This friend of his is very persuasive successful attorney. The other friend, somehow, became defensive because he had lost touch with my WH. So, something triggered for him during our conversation and he started feeling guilty about his own issues with not staying in touch. I tried to let him know that my WH and I had lost touch with many friends over the last few years when all of this was going on, but it was too late for this friend....he was dealing with his own guilt/shame.

Affair Partner: I sent her the PBL copy with the sentence for her via snail mail. Might have recd it today or tomorrow.

Notify Workplace: Still working on how to do this. Working through terror of it. Have a plan to try to run into his colleague in our town who lives around the corner.


QUESTIONS:
My children: I told my three children. They were all horrified. They had dinner with him the next night and he did to them what his parents did to him his whole life and still..he brushed it under the rug. Kids haven't brought it up since. But my eldest has no interest in seeing him. My twin 12 year olds keep their visitations going. Tonight my youngest daughter said that my WH told them that he "didn't know what was going on" with the AP. QUESTION: What is the recommendation with kids once they know? Do i keep restating the truth that he is lying and with someone else? While three therapists agreed that it would be better for them to know, i can see how keeping them on point with him will cause a lot of anxiety for them.

AP's parents: They are not picking up the phone. QUESTION: Should i leave a message on their answering machine? Hesitant because who even checks their landline VM anymore? Or send them letter via snail mail?

AP's brother: Same, not picking up land line. QUESTION: Leave a message or send snail mail? Or both?

AP's ex husband: Going to keep trying to track down contact for him. QUESTION: Does snail mail work or should I try on social media? I am hesitant to use Instagram to contact him because he doesn't seem very active on social media.

I believe the workplace exposure to the company's HR function (do they have this?) - especially since both of them work there - is the critical step. It will have the greatest impact on the affair. The affair originated from the workplace. All medium-sized and larger companies have policies on this kind of thing, especially if there is any sort of potential conflict of interest or power dynamic due to their positions, e.g. manager-subordinate or critical decision-making.

On other people, I wonder if you are over-thinking this. Try and contact the AP's family with whatever communications channel you have available. You could try multiple channels, e.g. e-mail, social media message, post letter, leave a message to call back, etc. Why not use them all? Of the list above, probably the AP's parents would be the most influential, so prioritize that one.

You have already exposed to family and friends to gain their support for yourself and also to ask for their support to help persuade your husband to come back to the marriage. With the exposure at the workplace and to the AP's family you are trying to disrupt the affair and break the illusion of it all. I think this is critical. I cannot repeat this enough.

On messaging to your kids, it is good they know what is going on. If this comes up in conversation, I suggest you focus on how this is hurting you, how it is not appropriate, and also how you are willing to work with their father to rebuild the marriage if he would end the affair, but he has to end the affair. They need to know why their world is being disrupted and why you are upset. But I would not dwell on it with them repeatedly in conversation. They know now. Focus instead on giving them love and support.

Thank you Blackhawk! This is very helpful.

On workplace exposure, what i have left out til now is that...my WH is Human Resources. He is second in line to the HR leader. He and his boss are pretty tight so believe it won't be much impact. There isn't a workplace policy on relationships among people in different service lines, so WH and AP aren't in same business line and don't report to each other. Maybe issues with them using workplace assets for communicating or taking "breaks" during the day. I can see how the next point for me to consider might be...well then I have nothing to lose. I am still thinking on it and getting closer to doing it. The main thing holding me up is that I can't bear the extra stress of not having any money. I work part time, also an executive in Human Resources as well. It's too much extra stress to take on with the tender emotional state of myself, my own job and my kids (one of which is talking about wanting to die, luckily we have an excellent therapist). So, i am taking it slower than I should on this point but i will keep thinking about your advisement. I have considered calling his old boss (former HR Leader) who I have known for 15 years and also a current colleagues live around the corner (on the path of my daily dog walk).

Thank you so much for your tips on the kids. I will be writing your thoughts in my journal and add that to my other mantras that I say to my kids so they always remember that I conducted myself with grace and kindness during this awful period. He has made so many of his own mistakes with them that he has done this for himself. I am trying to focus on empathy for them toward them. They can tell their dad is not himself "why is dad acting like an alien from outer space".

Thanks for the comments on overthinking the part about notifying the AP's family. I am not a big social media user anymore for various reasons. I wrote cards to the parents, brother and ex-husband. I didn't want to send a hard copy note but they weren't picking up their land lines.

As soon as I put the last exposure letter in the mailbox, i had an overwhelming feeling that was "I don't want him back". Do you ever hear of that happening? I have been ready and willing to work on it since discovery. I have known that I am more than worth it and then some. I never expected to be a person who would want to put the work in after being treated this way, but I am proud of myself for doing all that i could to honor my commitment and vows. I have also known that working on it with him was going to be much much harder path than just divorcing considering all of his emotional difficulties. But, that is what happened...all of a sudden, as the mail lid box closed on my last exposure letter, just like a switch, i just stopped wanting him to come back. I guess it will help me as i wait for some magical and unlikely change for his affair to die out or for him to have a realization. It seems unlikely, he keeps saying, he doesn't want to deal with his own pain that he created by his mistake.

Regarding my WH reaction to the PBL, He just got it on Saturday because he said he wasn't checking his mailbox. So yesterday, he emailed me and demanded an in person meeting. That demand actually made me laugh. He wants to talk in person about the next steps for our marriage and moving forward which I believe means that he wants to hire an mediator and start the divorce process. Also, he stated that he refuses to talk through the intermediary. This is his emotional anorexic version of being angry. I ignored his message for now, but on Saturday, I will send a note over to the intermediary and answer his questions about the kids schedule that he asked. If he keeps emailing me, i will just auto-forward his emails to the intermediary. <SIGH> This is exhausting but it's amazing that I don't have to worry about talking or interacting with him anymore. It's such a relief.


Thanks to all of you with your advice, will let you know how it goes.

I would not leave a message. Keep trying to call or perhaps send them a letter telling them about the affair and asking them to call you. Can you disguise your # when you call them?



Try doing both.

Good job on exposure!!

Lady, please DELETE his emails now. No auto-forward. Just auto DELETE. After the Plan B starts, you should never see his emails again. Every avenue of contact should be blocked off. It is up to you entirely to stop all contact, but he still has direct contact. He either communicates with your IM or he doesn't get to message to you.

I would have the IM send him a strict visitation schedule so communication is greatly reduced. If all the times are set in stone, there should not be much to communicate at all.


I would ignore that message and have your IM contact him directly and say "Lady Fortitude has not seen your emails as they are auto deleted. If you want to get a message to her, it must come through me."

Does your IM understand that she is to act as a spam filter and is only to send over critical, pertinent information about child visitation and finances? It should be in her words and confined to necessary facts only.

Most waywards usually refuse to use an IM at first because they hate losing control over the BS. Just ride it out and don''t let him have control over you or the IM! The IM job is the easiest job in the world if done right. If she needs help I would be glad to help. Just let me know!

Also, I would not agree to use a mediator. This is another scheme to force you see him. All he needs to do is hire an attorney and file. You can then hire an attorney. Any legal communications can go to your attorney.

Yes MelodyLane, you are a Queen! Thank you. This totally made my night! The advice on what to do with is emails is exactly what I needed. Deleting them would be amazing. Auto-delete, even better. Not sure how I missed that from the instructions, i am going to go back and ready them now that I am through the exposure stage.

I already provided the visitation schedule in the PBL but there are a couple of days i need to change that I just realized (so me and the kids can be in NY with my mom and brother for our 18 yr anniversary in Aug) and i know he has a few days he has sort out so i will send those details through the IM. Pretty much will make adjustments through to labor day so if all goes well, i don't need to speak to him for a few months.

The IM is my brother who is a man of very very very few words. He isn't a neutral person but, he would be willing to advocate for me and would do his best to be as neutral as possible for WH. He would be the most trustworthy and willing to roll with it if we did resolve. WH and I have another friend of 25 years who offered to help, but I can tell she was cautious about getting too involved like how frequent would the emailing be. I think the point is that there isn't much emailing at all. Initially this friend had a view point that not talking at all is extreme and that I need to keep a door open to talk about the kids as needed. I told her NO!. She changed her mind when I told her what my husband's response was when I told him that our son wanted to die...my WH said "Gosh" and that was it. He is at rock bottom, obviously.

Thanks for guidance on mediator. Agreed, he can file for D when he is ready to move to next step. I really don't need to hear it directly from him. I have an attorney in the city lined up and she is ready to be retained by me if he does and I will respond when I am good and ready and not a moment earlier..

That sounds great! I would not contact him via your IM unless it is absolutely critical. Remember the objective is to end contact. This is why it is so important to have as many things tidied up as possible. I realize some things have to be communicated and it sounds like you are trying to do that.

I will describe a typical exchange between a wayward and an intermediary and you can show your brother. Your WS will try very hard to bait him into fights and convince him it is best to have direct access, usually coupled with long moral lectures. Your WS will stop doing this if he sees it doesn't work, so tell your brother to stand strong. Your brother needs to expect that and not react accordingly. Everytime I have been an IM for a BS, I would initially receive a long winded email from the husband about what a horrible person she was and how immature she was for not "co-parenting" with him.

WS to IM: It is a crying shame that BS is too immature to communicate with me directly and it another example of the horrible treatment I have received for years! [the WS is always the victim] I have put up with this abuse for years and will not take it anymore. There is much for us to talk about and resolve and we can't do it this way. How does she expect to co-parent if she won't speak to me? What kind of parent does that? blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....

IM: thank you for your message. Per BS's instructions, I am instructed to pass on pertinent messages about visitation or finances, so I won't be passing this along.

And most importantly, your brother should save these emails but never tell you about them. This is how he protects you.

You can then expect your H to try other ways to get around your brother. Whatever you do, don't let him succeed! If you let him succeed, it will completely undermine your IM. We have had many WS's even have their lawyers send threatening messages to the BS about this so be prepared. The WS does not like losing control over the BS!