Can’t say how glad I am to have been sent to this site. I’m struggling with where I fall along the spectrum of enabling, vs supporting. I’d welcome any insights folks have.

We’ve been married for 20 years. Both 49 with 1 child in school still. She’s clinically obese to The point of being partially disabled( can’t walk more than 10-15 minutes a day). Also has cholesterol of 350+, and recently diagnosed as “pre diabetic”.

But she feels her weight is under control(though she’s gained 50lb in the last 2 years), the amount of red meat she eats - 40+ ounces per week - doesn’t matter (because “her cholesterol is hereditary” ), and her eating sweets and candy also don’t matter (because “the fatty tissue is causing the insulin problems”). The quotes are her rationales.

I lay this this out to highlight the severity of the problem and the depth of the dilemma.

since she can’t really walk, I shop , clean, cook, kid, etc. Part of having her Weight “under control” involves her making menus of what she will eat throughout the week. This involves moderately complex multi ingredient recipies ( some that are rich, some that are light versions of comfort foods,a handful that are truly healthy) that she says she needs “because these are the foods I will eat”. In addition to those, she keeps on hand nutrition-less snacks, sugary sweets, and the occasional bucket of fried chicken.

here’s the kicker - since she can’t really walk to shop or prep food, I shop for and cook everything (as well as clean before and after). According to her, all of this stuff is “on her plan” to lose weight and if I don’t help make it happen then I’m “part of the problem and not the solution”.

it gets deeper in that, of course this plan doesn’t work. There is a decade of evidence to show this. But, when I question the plan, the discussion becomes about how I am “not invested enough” in the plan and that is why the plan isn’t working. These are walkout-level arguments where she has previously left with the kid for the day. (And a few times has ended up going to KFC to cool off - no lie).

When she returns, to keep the peace (and the marriage!?) I pick back up with the plan.

so, the question as the title states: am I enabling or supportive?

And if you have and advice, I am in need of guidance.

FYI:
- she has declined counseling saying this further shows I am not invested in working with her
- I have never commented negatively on her weight (in fact she has lingering resentment because “I never told her she was gaining weight” with the first 100 pounds
- if I offer and/or cook up healthy meals, and she wants something else, she will force herself up, cook what she wants, then blame me for the pain that it causes her and brings this up As further evidence that I am not on board with the plan
- her doctors have told her she needs to loose weight, exercise, eat better, etc. But this doesn’t sink in. For example: she believes pork isn’t red meat and didn’t buy into the idea caloric deficit for 15 or so years.

She essentially bullies you into submission, by leaving with your child when you don't feed her addiction.
She is addicted to food obviously and having a relationship with an addict cannot be blissful, because the addict will put the addiction before the marriage.
The same goes for her blaming everything and everyone but herself for her weight gain and not "buying into" the obvious cause of her predicamant.

Here in Marriagebuilders, we believe in the "policy of joint agreement": never do anything without the enthousiastic agreement of your spouse. This helps to prevent many problems, by using your joined intelligence to tackle problems and make decisions. This does not apply to grave health concerns though, in which case it can be necessary to make a firm stance. The problem is, that your child will be motherless in a few years, or your wife will have a stroke.

It may be possible to get her motivated to follow the MB program. The eating issues can then be tackled as a second step.
Do you think that she would be willing to follow a program to help you have a happier and blissful marriage?

And has she been tested for physical issues regarding the weight gain? Thyroid issues can cause very high cholesterol levels and attibute to weight gain.

Happyheart, MD

Thanks Happyheart!

She was tested for thyroid when she was pregnant and it was borderline normal(but was proscribed a thyroid synthetic ). She has resisted testing for years prior to pregnancy and afterward.

Recently the pre-diabetic diagnosis fits with her eating habits. She can eat 700-1000 calories and feel “hungry and light headed” 60-90 minutes later. I’ve been suggesting insulin issues for years and she has resisted this as well because it never came up in bloodwork.

I am not sure that she will follow the program when it comes to her relationship to food. I have been looking through the extensive site here and it is a godsend. I think we could go along with POJA and the other practices that I have seen, but will stop when it comes to food. When push come to shove, she feels she knows better than others and experts. She stopped going to counseling previously because she felt the counselor’s “boundary setting” was not letting her communicate her feelings. Boundaries consisted of no yelling, no expletives, no judgment statements, etc.

Have you thought about emailing Dr. Harley? It’s free.

Huh. I didn’t see that or know it was an option. I’m not sure I’m will to go *that* public ...yet. Talking about and acknowledging these things is relatively new. But I will definitely consider it for later after I get and read the His Needs Her needs book.

As low thyroid in the mother can chip 8 points off your child’s IQ, there is a situation where it takes a whopping ego/addiction to not want to check that. How is she treating you and the children aside from the eating?

I would encourage you to start listening to the radio show daily with your DW. You sound like a crisis situation, obesity is a risk factor for Covid so my doctor has really helped me since March to prioritize eliminating this through diet exercise and appetite suppressants. I had arthritis and torn meniscus too so I got cortisone injections and just completed 6 weeks of physical therapy. My orthopedist told me at the start that he recommended knee surgery and now does not, that is how well the exercises worked!

Dr. H always says something like if there were a million bucks on the line you would do it. Now when I want to slack off I remember there is a disease around the corner that takes the lives of the obese at higher rates. I lost a step cousin to H1N1 and have a sister who is prediabetic at 30 and a doctor who is helping me with a plan out I’m taking it! My grown kids are amazing too we make healthy meals together and do YouTube exercise videos together.

When you get the 4 4 hour dates in together everything can get so much easier to troubleshoot. This place here was a lifeline for me. What are your first steps? My guess would be getting your DW out of the house. When she wants to be out with you do you guys have insurance to help her address the mobility issues?

She was taking the synthetic during pregnancy and breast feeding. Thank good ness. Child is school age and thriving.

80% of the time things are not just fine, but grand. She is loving. Kind. Funny. Creative. A great mom. A good and supportive partner.

The other 20% can be abysmal. The worst are when she feels that I (and at times our child) are the cause of her situation. She gained the first 100lbs well before getting pregnant, but now about once every other month , she says outright that starting a family ruined her life. It was her idea BTW to start a family. It’s complicated, though: shifts in her hips seems to have exacerbated an underlying condition, but the extra 100bs didn’t help either. However, She says this in front of our child who is old enough to understand the emotion but maybe not old enough to process that it’s not her fault. That can’t be good.

she gets so angry and just rage filled then it all comes out. When I’m the focus, there are personal attacks and denigrations, yelling, expletives, etc. she also has argued for a long time (and it is my fault for letting this continue ) that her “feelings” are valid and her expression of those feelings should not be suppressed. Hence she doesn’t like counselors. It is the whole “you made me this angry and forced me to say these things” trope.(and as you might be thinking, this is how her mother behaves when she is angry: which my wife knows and rejects).

Honestly, it’s a bit bipolar. But it is so weighted toward the good, that I’ve been letting the bad slide.

She’s done physical therapy for years. And as you said, to stave off suggested knee surgeries. Finally found one that works for her- we were driving out to them about an hour away and staying Friday morning - Tuesday morning so that she could get multiplied sessions in. All of that stopped with Covid but she does the exercises at home. They were working. But I estimate she’s put on 25-50 pounds since starting with them. So, the weight can offset improvements.

Overall, she used to not be able to walk more than 20-30 feet a day; across the house and back and done.Then it improved to 100 Feet per day. And now it’s about 15-20 minutes per day. So it’s pointing in the right direction, but has stalled in improving. She’s a type A personality so have to have someone else (me) do / get everything doesn’t sit well with her.


So true, but here’s the rub: it’s dependent on how much you think the benefit outweighs the risk. She isn’t convinced that changing her eating habits , or rather her relationship to food, will have any effect in her weight but strongly believes changing her food habits will make her enjoy life less. She knows what is on the line (her mother’s health is abysmal - hearth back and knee issues, both sides of her mother’s family have a history of heart issues, and her father had a should-have-killed-him aneurysm several years back (then later died in his mid to late late 60s). She even gets that she is in that path. She is just is not convinced that changing her food habits are not a key issue.

Her logic, as stated by her: 1. I lost weight before from intensive exercise (true for 40lbs but she gained more back), 2) I can’t exceexise because of my mobility (I’ve suggested no impact and seated machines and workouts but no go there) 3) starting the family, birthing a child, is the source of the mobility issues, 4) therefore the family, the kid and I, are responsible For helping make her weight loss happen*. Happen, Here, means fully supporting her plan which I’ve mentioned above can’t work. So if we don’t support the plan we are the problem. 5) And if the plan isn’t working it is because small lapses (like forgetting an ingredient for a recipe) show that I am not invested enough to make the plan work.

DyJam did you all listen to the radio show today? This is an important habit to get into, it will replace this being stuck in one place with having a good momentum. Dr. H and Joyce shared that they have had arthritis and didn’t let it stop them and it was very encouraging to me. Have you read the articles on alcoholic spouse? They may help you focus on getting your program to improve your marriage together.

The key is replacing the old lifestyle and this program of getting out of the house together for 4 4 hour dates a week will do that. Have you asked your DW happy heart’s question about wanting a happy marriage with you? This is important because the top reason women are unhappy is because of their marriage and you are in the right place to fix that with fun simple habits.

Back to your original question, the enabling or supportive, the rule that will help you here is the policy of joint agreement. Don’t do things that you are not enthusiastic about. If you are making yourself a healthy meal you probably feel good about including your DW and child in that. But it sounds like other times you feel forced and don’t want to. Those times you are not enthusiastic so can let the family know you’re not preparing that meal as a group one.

I agree with the others that your situation is pretty drastic and Dr. H can give you the way to present this in a way that will bring peace and harmony to you and your family instead of upset visits to KFC. Driving upset with your son for a binge is a needless escalation. He will answer your letter in email too if you’re more comfortable with that.

You don't have to go "public" about this. You can ask them not to use your real name and you don't have to be a caller. You can ask them to just answer your email on the show.

It's great to see you on this forum DyJam. I'm so glad you chose to post here for advice.

I remember from other cases that Dr. Harley had advised that the spouse with the medical problem needs to take responsibility for the problem and present themselves as a spouse that is fit to be a spouse as best that they are capable of being. I notice that DyJam has been a caretaker for his wife quite extensively even though she does have the capacity to leave for the day or drive to KFC.

Does anyone have any comments on how that might apply to DyJam's situation?

DyJam I didn’t see you come back which is unfortunate because these folks spent their free time writing to you. I hope you heard what you came to hear.

If you do come back this weekend I hope you and your DW tune into the radio show this weekend from the first 5 minutes they talk about a study that having a happy spouse prolongs your life.

Hello. Sorry for my timing, but I try to work in posting as I can. I truly appreciate everything everyone is doing. Two issues occurred over the last week:

1) Her knee went out so she could not walk at all for a couple days, which has thrown off a lot of things, promoted crying jags, her depression, etc. . But the knee is back to normal, so the status who is back in place.

2) During that time there was another escalated argument about food. This ended with another exit with the child and a threat to call the police.

She had requested a two part breakfast ( which was normal). I fixed the first part, then started washing dishes because the second part is usually taken an hour after the first. I kept washing dishes with my back to the kitchen then didn’t notice that she had gotten up and was working on the second part with a lot of overly labored effort. Wanting part two this soon was well Ahead of schedule, normally.

I said “I’m sorry I didn’t get to this yet, I can take over so You can get off your feet”.

She responded with “don’t worry about it. I have to realize I am in this by myself, alone. “.

I responded with “I am right here trying to help. I am sorry I was working on the wrong thing doing dishes, but if I’m doing the wrong thing, but still trying to help, just maybe point me in the direction of the right thing”.

Her response to this was : “ oh, so you are saying this is all my fault”.

From here I didn’t respond as well as I could of. Note that I never yell, I talk just a shade below conversational level and overly calmly (I’ve leaned to do this over the years).

But I did say: “ oh come on. Just ... just stop. That’s ridiculous”.

From here Her response was generally along the lines of : you telling me not to speak is threatening to me. I feel threatened. If you keep Speaking I’m going to call the police.

I asked again calmly , is there anything about my demeanor that is threatening? She took the kid and left a few minutes later.

This shook me up for a bit, which has also added to my delays.

As per the site, it’s resources, and the radio show ...

I am a bit thorough, so I have been reading the essays that I think are appropriate. I’ve also been going through the questionnaires.

And I’ve had help drafting a letter that I’ll send in asking for help.

The radio show and working on site-related things jointly is difficult. She views looking externally for guidance as discrediting her position. Brining up counseling, relationship books, blogs, etc is a trigger for arguments that escalate as above. Suggesting we listen to the radio show is likely to trigger an argument along the lines off “so you won’t listen to me, but you want me to listen to (fill in the blank)”. Note that “listening to her is doing what she says. The next line of argument wil lead back to the line of “you won’t work with me, so I’m in this by myself”. And then everything else that comes with that.

I’m trying to figure out how to bring these topics into our discussions without escalation.

Also, I’m trying to find a way to listen to the show in my own first.

But I am moving forward.

Thanks to everyone one.

I have not listened. My wife and I only spend about 6 hours per week Apart. This may seem helpful to the situation with the radio program, but, I do not have language yet to broach this with her. She doesn’t like external counseling. It triggers escalation because she sees this as me not wanting to listen to her, but to someone else. She generally has not agreed with counselors, and relationships books I have read, for a variety of reasons.

Thanks for the tip on which article to read. I will definitely read that one. I have not yet.



I think I can work the happy hearts questions into our chatting and time together. That is my plan there. I am solan king in that starting the end of this week, ahead of the weekend.

My wife is opposed to the concept of “lifestyle change”. We had an argument about this a few years ago when her Dr forced her into cholesterol meds. I had read several scientific studies which found that for people 100+lbs overweight the defining factor for loosing AND maintaining weightloss was not any particular diet, but a state of mind: lifestyle change. I thought the supporting evidence would be objective enough, but me bringing this up, with that language, was seen as an attack. I thought at the time it was because she drives pleasure from Food. So, I suggested alternatives to have fun Regularly and find joy. But it comes back to food.


On the contrary, I don’t feel good about making alternate meals. She has told Me that I am essentially virtue signaling and trying to shame her. If I don’t go along I am insulting her. I work around this by just making copious amounts of veggies, then offer them to everybody. If the main dish is too heavy and I feel we shouldn’t be having it, I serve myself less. And I pile up in veggies. She used to glare at my plate and ask if I didn’t like the main dish. But now she doesn’t say anything. She eats fruits and veggies about 4-5 meals a week including BL and D.

]quote=NewEveryDay]I agree with the others that your situation is pretty drastic and Dr. H can give you the way to present this in a way that will bring peace and harmony to you and your family instead of upset visits to KFC. Driving upset with your son for a binge is a needless escalation. He will answer your letter in email too if you’re more comfortable with that.[/quote]

Another user helped draft a letter that I will be sending in. This is very new for me. It was only a year ago that I realized (was told by a counselor) that this was not normal. I grew up in a single mother household where the mother was a manic depressive and most likely narcissistic. So, a. Lot of baggage to unpack.

When you say “the best they are capable of being” that is a very interesting take. It suggests working at the problem. I’d also ask, what happens when working at the problem is done in a way that an external Observer would say is just feeding the addiction?

Here is the dilemma There: my wife spends 5-10 hours per week planning what she will eat. She has note book upon notebook of recipes, articles, lists, etc. she reads about nutrition, supplements, etc. she makes detailed menus and shopping lists. She puts in the work on this part. But, to Bottom line it, she over eats by about 300-500 calories a day because she , at first , didn’t believe in caloric deficit, and now believes she can listen to her hunger signals. Those signals include the meals she plans and the snacks she doesn’t. I don’t agree with the meals - lighter versions of comfort foods (which I think fuel the addiction ) and at times the comfort foods themselves. Along with too much read meat. But maybe if she just stick to the meals, it would work out. Instead we get the meals, the processed snacks, the sweet treats , and all of it every few hours (though sweets are regulated to after dinner).

So, I’ve tried language that suggests she needs to put in work, but it’s met with pushback because she arguably is working at it. It’s just not effective. The follow on point is that she gets hurt and angry if it is insinuated that it is her fault that she has not lost weight. To her the issues are miscues about the shopping list (missing items) and cooking schedule (not having food pre prepped or on time)things that fall under my responsibility. Granted, I have about a 1/30 item error rate on shopping and maybe a few meals a week are late or adjusted, but I can see now that isn’t the issue (I used to think it was).

So I would add to SunnyTime’s final Question: how can you ask someone to take responsibility for being the best spouse they can be when their response, through tears, will be “I need you to step and do more to help me”. When you know the help is assisting even more so with a plan that does not work.

PS: When she leaves I am pretty sure she drives to drive thru to get food, goes to a park, and sits in the car. I have followed her once (I just drove to KFC to find her - no lie).

Thanks for this. I am working on it.

Hello NewEveryDay. Thanks for your response and help!

I mentioned elsewhere that I’m trying to work the radio program in against other obstacles.

I have not yet read the “4 4 hour dates” , so unsure exactly what they are. I’m skipping around, reading wise, and may have jumped past it. But We spend all of our time together save for about 6 hours per week. We control our schedules.

This includes lunch everyday (most I cook in; some takeout) and a few times a week those are multi hour. Sometimes we eat in the park. “Bistro Fridays” (morning coffee out) and bistro in (breaks with our espresso maker at least twice a day) ; and evening decompression involving a nightly massage (12 years and running on the nightly massage). Before the pandemic we’d slip out to movies daytime every other week or so. So, we have a lot of time to Talk, and we do. We enjoy each other.

She is mobile enough to walk for 5 minutes or so, then sit. So we can go places, but maybe not walk the park like we used to. Instead we grab a bench. We get out of the house daily.

I’m guessing by using insurance you mean a scooter or some such. She wouldn’t have it. Would not touch it. She can’t stand to think of herself that way. She’s loves the beach, but would rather not travel at all than have to use a wheel chair. Do, no beach, no travel save by car anymore.

It sounds like you have the keys to starting a great plan. You mentioned getting someone’s help in writing Dr. H, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how quickly you go from understanding the problem to understanding how to resolve it together. You already have time together outside of the house and goodwill towards each other. A nightly massage sounds like you both are already in the habit of giving each other extraordinary care. I’m so excited for you both! You didn’t mention any issues with parenting, but I found following the basic concepts here helped me be the parent I wanted to be too.