Hi everyone, this is MeTime’s Wife. Thanks for the advice you gave him.
I didn’t come back here before, because we made up (likely with ME being the only one to apologize, I am THE apologizer) and I didn’t want to stir everything up again because I can be “punished” so badly when we argue and I hate fighting so much. He also said some things that weren’t 100% the way they happened, like saying he did give me UA quality time. That started a couple of days before his post. Not like I had been having that.

But we are at it again – this time, because even though I am a smoker and COVID could really affect me, I had no doctor’s note proving that and cannot get the vaccine without it. I have no primary care in the city we moved to. When they called me for the vaccine, I got him in, since he is in the age bracket. When I left for my mama’s before, I didn’t just leave, I left because family was driving cross-country to visit other family and we had both deemed that unsafe to see them this go round. BOTH of us. We get in an argument (which again I apologized for and TRIED to make up but I was stonewalled) and he said he was going to see them. I asked him not to, that I was afraid he would bring COVID home and potentially kill me. I said I’d have to go to mama’s. He said I should. So I did. But now that is thrown in my face every argument, even though when I returned he said he understood I had no choice but to leave.

So anyway, when he was scheduled for the vaccine and I wasn’t, that worried me, since he almost took risks before. I started out with “I” and feelings just like I am supposed to (since when he yells, calls me names, etc. I am blamed for “pushing his buttons.”) I told him I had anxiety and was afraid of him being protected and me not if he were to start doing things we have not done in a year. Instead of reassurance, he told me he could not promise me that. He said he had no INTENTION of doing that, but did not want to promise something he would be held to, because if I intentionally made him miserable (so nice! I have never done that!) he may go somewhere. I cried feeling again like I may have to suddenly leave. I cried because I felt my husband would not keep the same safety precautions we had when we were both vulnerable, if he is vaccinated and not anymore. I begged for him to promise me that and he couldn’t. I teared up about that for a couple of days. We had a fight and he left to stay upstairs. Later, I tried to drop it, though I still was crying about it in the shower. He again said he had no intensions of doing that, but I know without a promise and with the caveat that if I made him miserable (he says that for any little argument, everything is HUGE and every single time (no exaggeration) it is my fault), I know an argument would equal him risking me and then saying he didn’t have any intention to do that, but I made him. I just wanted reassurances. I don’t want to feel unsafe or have to suddenly leave again and try to deal with working from my mama’s house, which is not conducive for work.
Then I managed to get the vaccine before him, thank God. I was worried I’d get lost (since I often do), but he wouldn’t go with me, saying he had to work, but he got on his video game while I was gone (was on his screen showing played when I returned). He said he just did an update. Anyway, he asked me on the phone on the way if I was nervous and I said no, that I was just so relieved (again sharing my feelings) because I was so scared what would happen since he couldn’t promise me he would keep up the precautions (that had just been said the day before and was unresolved). I did not say this with any anger whatsoever. He said he didn’t want to fight and hung up on me.

I come home and try to make chit-chat but he is obviously angry. After work, he said he was bent out of shape about how I treated him earlier. I asked him to tell me how I treated him, that I was just sharing my feelings of relief. He goes into (AGAIN) how I can take risks and do what I want and leave to go to my mama’s. That was January and every fight it is thrown into my face. Even though I apologized and explained I felt I had no choice and he agreed. I asked him not to bring up old things and discuss the current argument. He got mad and ended up leaving to go upstairs. Any argument now, he does that, stonewalls me. I even asked him to come down and just hold my hand and watch something with me. Nope, I am punished. Sometimes for days. Or until the apology he demands is sufficient for him. He also comes to bed VERY late – 1 ,2, 3 am when he does this and wakes me up putting the dog in his bed, etc., and I can’t get back to sleep (or to sleep before that really). Then he snores very loud and like last night, I got maybe 2 hours and he sleeps in. I asked that he go to the guest room if he is going to stay up like that – he says I am controlling. I am always the one who has to go to the guest room, he never has. ANYTHING I ask for that I need is controlling and abusive now. Thing he calls me just about every argument. And nothing is a spat with him, everything is a full blown WWIII. I think it is controlling to give me no sleep and expect ME to leave the bedroom when he is going to be up playing games or whatever until the wee hours on a work day. I am always the one trying to make up, but I am left. He does what he does upstairs and I am non-existent. I can’t do that anymore. I don’t seem to matter to him at all. What matters is what he does upstairs.

He even left me when my sister died because I was upset he was playing with the dogs right after I got the news and was on the phone with my mom. He left and was putting on his shoes (to do Christmas lights). The day before I found out hospice and took off work at noon and was crying and wanted to talk and he was busy putting up the Christmas village. I even asked when he was done with that would he hold me and rub my hair – he finally did, but couldn’t get the shows he wanted so he fought with the remote over my head the whole time, not in the least comforting. So seeing him put on his shoes to again seemingly worry about Christmas decorations WHEN MY SISTER JUST DIED was upsetting. When he came back out with me, I told him that hurt me when mama was saying she was so glad he was here to comfort me and he was paying with the dogs and putting on shoes and I was on the porch and he was inside, not with me. Then he said snappily – can I at least have my drink too? All he seemed to be worried about was himself, so I snapped back and said no one said you can’t have your drink – go get your drink. For THAT I was abusive and terrible to him and was IGNORED FOR DAYS WHILE I BAWLED ALONE DOWNSTAIRS about my sister. He told me he would only be with me again if I apologized for the awful way I treated him. I was so sick of being the apologizer I didn’t, so I was left. Finally, days later I did, just to make it stop.

I have an issue with his cousin because he tells him our one-sided arguments and after the first time, is when I started to be called a controlling abuser “my cousin think so too.” Also, he gets all this quality time with him I don’t get. That’s why I had the 5.5 hours of me-time and not seeing him all night one night a week while he is with him. I don’t get 5.5 hours of undivided time. With his cousin, there is no taking texts, ipad games, working, chores, etc., nothing. With me, I get the crumbs after all that. Also, he lied by omission in disclosing something to me, and he and his cousin had that behind my back. There is a triangulation against me with him.

By the way, the main things thrown into my face repeatedly for YEARS that he says makes me a controlling abuser are as follows:

1. Back then, he was on medication that would make him not finish if we had sex if he had more than 2 drinks. We had been moving and were so busy we were having no time together. I am usually the one who initiates/wants sex. I teased him that I was going outside for a smoke and then will come in and rape him (something like that). He did not object, and laughed, then he proceeded to call his friend, Sarah. Whenever he talks to Sarah it takes a long time and he was almost finished with his 2nd drink. So there goes that. I was hurt. I never had a problem with Sarah before or after that, have met her, like her, have nothing against their relationship in the slightest. But after being upset about that, I “don’t even let him talk to Sarah!”

2. Another time years ago, he was talking with his sister (we were fighting) and it was her birthday, I motioned to ask him to put her on speaker so I could wish her a happy bday real quick, he got mad and said I should call her on my own. Well that would be weird since she knew we were on a trip together. Now “I don’t even let him talk to his sister!”

3. Then there was the time I told him I had a strict lunch hour because I had a hard stop with a meeting I had to attend. That I had to go by XX time. He offered to pick up sandwiches and it took forever. He came back blaming the place for taking so long – I had to scarf down lunch and rush back to my meeting. That night, he mentioned going to Publix on the way. Why would you pick THEN to do that, when I already said I had a strict time constraint. He said he went to get me flowers, but none looked good, so I got nothing. I am controlling because I “won’t even let him go to the store to buy me flowers.” He doesn’t get this did not respect what I had going on.

4. Another grocery store time, we were prepping for company and had a TON to do. There was a very short list on the counter and he said he was running to get that stuff real quick. I asked if we should do it the next day instead, as the dogs needed to be cleaned/dried before bed and he said it would only take a minute. Not much to get. So I was waiting on him to get back to bathe the dogs with me so I could then clean the shower. The store is right up the road and the list was just a few things and it took 45 minutes. While I was scrambling to clean the house alone. I then saw on security he arrived at the house from a different way, so I thought he was even driving around since he does that on the phone sometimes. So I was upset when he got in. He said he just turned around to look at the Christmas lights. I did apologize for that and for making assumptions, but I was upset being left to do everything. I was up so late doing it all myself, because of course at that point I was stonewalled. Now he “can’t even go to the store for 45 minutes.”

5. He used to tag me on Facebook pictures, write sweet things, post publicly about me, all that stopped. Then the maybe 3 times a year I would tag him in a pic (with pre-approval), he started not accepting it on his timeline (he has to approve for it to post). Just kept it hidden. Had stopped commenting/liking before that, but at least please ACCEPT our pic! He says he doesn’t do Facebook anymore. But I would see him active a lot. Every day. Also joined a ton of local groups. It hurts he wants to read what strangers have to say but has no interest in mine. He Meanwhile, his friend tagged him and it was approved the next day. Then finally he had to approve mine. I don’t even tag him anymore or speak to him on there. No one would even know we were still married except for our status. He used to be so romantic on there with me and it was part of wooing me. Now I am non-existent. It hurts. I am controlling for wanting him to engage with me again. In fact, I was told I am not allowed to ever speak of Facebook again (had to say that to get him to make up with me about it one time). My feelings about anything don’t seem to matter. It seems if it is something I want, it is the thing he will absolutely not do for me. I did at least get a birthday post this year, but not on his timeline.

That is all over a 4 year period. I am an abusive controller because of it. It seem any time I have a grievance or my feelings are hurt by something and I try to talk about it, he will dig in his heels and I am controlling to even ask for something.

I have been physically and emotionally abused in my last marriage (25 years ago), so I have expressed how much it hurts to call me that. I build him up all the time, I don’t want any control (just to be cared about!), I try to make up every argument, I don’t stonewall, I apologize most fights (with nothing in return), sometimes just to make it stop. But he calls me that for any argument or perceived slight. I have said things I regret in response to him. Sometimes, especially when it goes on for days, I have a hard time not retaliating when insults are being thrown at me. He also brings up everything under the sun to turn any argument around on me – even things from years ago. Even things I have apologized for.

Since he blames me when he gets mad (I push his buttons), I have tried so hard to come at him with “I” and feeling statements and it has not changed a thing. I get yelling over me, or a silent wall. Not much in between. I am also told he will stay gone unless I do _____, or unless I drop it altogether. Sometimes something really hurtful or bothersome to me, but I am told I am not allowed to speak of it ever again. Most arguments I am told “I am done!” “YOU did this,” “This is YOUR fault.”

Like last night, I try to beg him to come down and talk to me. Let’s try to understand each other, be a team, work it out together. Nope, he stays gone.

He also does not keep agreements we make. That hurts my trust a lot. Finally got him to agree he would not leave all night anymore (or days) when we argue and instead try to work it out with me IF I was civil. Well I have stayed civil. And he still leaves. He said he wouldn’t go to his cousin about our arguments anymore, has many times since, said he would never run to his mom in an argument once she moved here – first argument after she had a house he was going to and only didn’t because she ended up having COVID symptoms. We had an agreement (in front of the counselor) where he stated he needed 3 hours of game time a week, then it was MY FAULT that is the time he got. I was controlling his game time for giving him exactly what he asked for! I asked him to be respectful of that timeline because a few weeks in a row he was gone longer and I would hang up on my Facetime call or whatever thinking he’d be coming down. Now it is 5 to 6 hours, but more when he leaves me to play in an argument. He said he would not leave me all night in an argument. The counselor even said you won’t leave her hanging, right? No, he said he would just need an hour to cool down and come back. He leaves all night, even when I am apologizing and trying so hard to connect with him! We agreed not to invite people to the house without talking first, he invited his mom to a 3 day weekend to stay with us when we lived apart. Right in front of me. He did dial that back later, but there are so many things – we agree to and he doesn’t do it and it is either my fault, or the agreement never happened and I am making it up! He also cancels on plans last minute with others if we have an argument. Bails on family etc. He can’t suck it up and come with me, so I have to cancel or embarrassingly say why he isn’t there. It makes me not even want to make plans with him anymore, because anything can make him bail on me, even if I am being nice and have apologized and am asking him to please go. Even almost leaving me in another city until I said what he wanted. I am walking on eggshells.

He also gets way more “me-time” than just games. He plays games on his ipad too and cooks and seemingly looks for anything he can do when we have time together other than spend undivided time with me. And he admittedly can’t multitask. So I am not heard or engaged with when he is busy with everything else. Since posting on here, he has done more in that regard and even wakes up with me now (unless I am being “punished” and stonewalled, then he is up really late, waking me when he comes to bed and sleeps longer than me). I have told him I appreciate that effort. But I still don’t get the nothing else matters undivided time his cousin gets every week.

I also can’t get intimacy. For YEARS now I have asked for real kisses, not just pecks like he gives his mom. He responds that lack of intimacy is MY fault. That I don’t deserve to be kissed. Even when we go months without an argument or anything. Then he said it was because he is not the romantic type. He USED to kiss me when we were dating! Then he started kissing me at least for sex. But sex is mechanical, no cuddles, caresses, etc. He even started touching me a few weeks ago while we were watching a movie and never once looked at me! I will give him credit that until this current argument, over the weekend he did make an effort and kissed me! That meant so much. Had been so many years of asking for that.

I feel like whatever he does upstairs is definitely the most important thing in his life. It certainly comes before me, and so does his cousin. I feel so unloved, uncared for, unsafe and unhappy. I am not sure how much longer I can stay here when I get shut out for the smallest of arguments. Things most people would blow off.

He does help around the house and I am grateful for that – my ex did nothing. I thank him for everything he ever does and any positive change he makes and I try to show him I appreciate him, etc. But I feel stifled saying ANYTHING I want or need or am sad about or anything at all. It equals a fight….every time. And that fight is always ME starting it and always “all YOUR fault.”

I fully admit I am not perfect, but I admit the fault, apologize, and try not to do it again. I don’t get that. I don’t feel he tries to put himself in my shoes at all, or even try to understand me. When I try to get him to and say, can you at least see how I might feel that way (because I will tell him I can see his point), he says no, I don’t. This is your fault, you just want to fight, etc.

I wish I could stop loving him and at this rate, it will happen soon. He has so many good qualities that I love, but I just don’t know how long I can go on feeling this way. I am not a crier and I have been crying a lot. At this point, I was truly happier living alone 20 years. I would rather be alone and on my own, than be married and FEEL alone. And the character assassinations are really killing me too. I have never ever been called the things he calls me and I know I am a good person who cares about people (maybe too much) and am not the awful person he makes me out to be. My heart is breaking. What do I do? Can every single thing be solely all my fault all the time?

Unloved, it's great that you came back.

You've come back and posted a hundred different things from the "me time" issue that brought your husband here. There is so much detail and rehashing of arguments that it's hard to know where to start, so I'm going to ask you a few establishing questions.

When you both first posted, I had no idea that you were not a young couple. Now it seems that you were married 25 years ago. How old were you when you get married, and how did that marriage end? Did you have any children? How old, and where do they live? Was your husband ever married before, and were there any children? Where do they live?

Reading this tale of furious arguments and frequent fights, I can't help but ask you how you ever came to marry each other. Did your relationship go from romance to fights almost as soon as you moved in together?

Your husband probably won't like my suggesting this, but has his extreme behaviour (including the games, but also the fighting and the freezing you out) affected his other romantic relationships?

How does he come to have a close friendship with Sarah? Why didn't he marry her, if he is so close to her?

There is so much more, but let's start there.

Thanks Sugar Cane!

Most of the arguments I posted about being hurt from are quite recent, like my sister dying mid December. And most other stuff is ongoing (leaving me every fight, bailing on plans, etc.).

I got married at 23 I think it was and I finally ended it when I found out he waa having an affair.

Neither of us have any children. He was married twice before. Both wives had affairs but he stayed with his late wife until she died (she was one of my best friends, miss her ). His first marriage did not last very long. I know his late wife had said she cheated because she felt invisible and she was a conflict avoider. He worked a lot.

We had been friends for 18 years I think. We cried on each others shoulder when his wife died and things happened. We used to have so much fun together, but have never argued constructively.

He has known her aince childhood. She is married and again, I have zero concerns about her. I even remind him to call her back! It just feels so unfair how I'm labeled and things are twisted without the reasons behind them. I got mad he called his friend! He isn't allowed to talk to his friend!

Thanks for your help!

I don't think I've been any help at all, because there are so many issues raised in that post that I feel a bit lost.

Could you simplify it for us and ask one question, please?

You did ask at the end "can every single thing be my fault all the time?" and it's obvious that you don't think everything can be. What kind of concrete help are you really looking for?

I think I just want some validation for my feelings, since I don't feel I get that at all. Even when I try so hard to use "I" and just talk about how I feel(which I have worked so hard on). Also a way to make it better! It seems like unless I say everything is wonderful and don't bring up anything bothering me, it is a huge fight. He gets so defensive and angry. And this isn't just with me. I've seen him get so angry with others too. Is there any hope?

The problem with getting validation for your feelings from us here is that it isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference in your marriage. We can validate you all you like. We can tell you that you are right and he is wrong. That won't improve your marriage one iota.

I would also suggest that getting your husband to "validate" your feelings isn't the solution, either. Validation, as I understand it, is, in a nutshell, saying "I understand that you feel this way about x and y". Validation means being able to state the other person's views without distorting what they said. It means believing and accepting that they feel the way they feel, and being accurate in your understanding of how they feel.

However, being able to see that the other person feels x or y does not mean a thing unless you are willing to do something to affect their feelings. Your husband probably knows how you feel about the wide range of things that you mentioned on here. The problem is that he does not care enough about your feelings to change his behaviour so that your unhappiness stops. He is well aware that you were upset about what he did on the day your sister died, for example, and he is well aware of your reasons for feeling that way. The problem is that he does not care about your feelings enough to say to himself, "I'm devastated that I hurt her and she is upstairs crying", followed by "I'm really worried that I keep hurting her and her love for me is running out".

When he came here, I think your husband indicated that you had come across Dr Harley's concept of the Policy of Joint Agreement, so I am assuming that you know how this should work. Dr Harley calls violations of the POJA "independent behaviour," acts of one spouse that are conceived and executed as if the other spouse doesn't exist. It's a disregard of the other spouse's feelings. You've found independent behaviour to be absolutely intolerable, as do most spouses, and you have tried to communicate that to your husband whenever it happens. If your marriage is to improve, your husband must learn to behave "interdependently," which means that acts are conceived and executed with the interests of both of you in mind.

From your description, and also from what your husband posted when he was here, your husband indulges a lot in independent behaviour. He might have always had this approach to marriage, or it might be something that has developed because he has lived alone for some years as his marriages have failed (has he?) and he has got older.

The simple answer to "a way to make it better!" is that if he wants to have a successful marriage, he needs to take your feelings into consideration in everything he does. Dr Harley takes the view that marriage should be a partnership of equals. No decision should be made without unanimous consent. But Dr Harley goes one step further when he insists on enthusiastic agreement. He takes that step because it's only with enthusiastic agreement that a couple can remain in love with each other. Importantly, the term "decisions" covers each spouse's day-to-day behaviour, and not just what seem like obvious decisions (such as whether to buy a car). You have described many instances of your husband's behaviour, but what he is really doing when he behaves in ways that upset you is taking a decision to do what he wants to do at that moment, without considering how it might affect you, or not caring if he knew it affected you when he did it before - like gaming in the way that he does.

I haven't seen much from what you have written that shows that your husband is prepared to accommodate your feelings in all areas of his life. From what he himself wrote, he was prepared to make some changes in some areas, but not in all. He actually said that if he couldn't get the "me time" that he requires, he would divorce you. If he thinks this way about any aspect of your marriage, I don't hold out any hope for its survival.

If I am wrong, or if you have misinterpreted him, and if he is prepared to try to learn to accommodate your feelings in the way he behaves, you must not let your emotions get the best of you when he fails. Let him know how disappointed you are without being demanding, showing disrespect, or losing your temper. If he can't adjust to you, end your marriage without being abusive toward him.

Demands, disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts make conflicts more difficult to resolve in marriage. So the first step for you is to learn how to stop being demanding, disrespectful, and angry when your husband does something that hurts you when you have told him countless times in the past that it does. The solution to that problem must be found some other way, and that way is described in chapter 8 of the book Lovebusters (Independent Behaviour) and the following five chapters (The Most Common Marital Conflicts).

When you have eliminated demands, disrespect, and anger, your husband may not be willing to negotiate with you or follow the Policy of Joint Agreement when it comes to his independent behaviour. If that's the case, your marriage will probably not survive. As I believe you have noticed, the POJA is essential for any marriage to be successful. However, your marriage will most certainly not survive if you keep fighting about it with no resolution in sight.

Dear Un I’m so glad you posted finally before you hit the last straw I hope. Please read this thread What to Do With An Angry Husband. Please read every article linked in there and come back and ask questions. Listen to every linked radio show. Listen to the radio show daily.

Reading this all your answer will get super clear. Nothing will change until your H addresses his AOs. My xh years later said he knew he was being an [censored]. Your H does too. You guys are in the right place to turn this around.

You have work to do too. You guys have to stop having arguments. That’s why step 1 in the link is do not negotiate when he is angry. Your health is too important. Please come back and let me know what you think.

I read your letter again I could relate to so much. I try to be thoughtful and peacemaking but have had angry hostile marriages that left me nervous unsettled anxious and depressed. I grew up with domestic violence like you described in your first marriage. So instead of negotiating for everything I needed I let myself get talked into as little as possible most of the time and it upset the apple cart when I tried to bring in some ideas that can bring win win solutions. When I have had a really hard time I have written in to Dr. Harley I think you and your H would find one letter would give you a ton of insight into how to make you marriage a love that would last.

Also I said do not negotiate when he is angry I mean not when either of you are angry. Also does your counselor follow MB principles Dr H. mentioned on the radio Friday that he has a book for counselors. Also if you have PTSD from the domestic violence I heard there are new medicines for that it may make you less anxious and sleep easier in the short term. I know long term you need better solutions but while you are working on that it’s just an idea.

Sugarcane has given you valuable information to consider. I would like to add, that the two of you are obviously and understandably out of love and from his perspective, time with you is probably not much fun and you „stand in the way“ of his need to do hat he wants when he wants it.

From your lengthy post it seems that he did consider your feelings more, when you were dating and he also kissed you etc.

There is an article in the article section „what to do with a quarrelsome and nagging wife“, that describes what happens when a man fails to consider his wife in his decisions, which describes your situation quite well.

From some of the situations you describe, it does seem, that you expect him to go along with decisions - cleaning the house and bathing the dogs, because you want thing a certain way when company is coming - for which you probably did not have his enthusiastic agreement and he escaped - for which he did not have your enthusiastic agreement.

Other situations signify an astounding lack of care - illness and death in your family - that even a non-empathic person would understand to be instances where one should omit own activities - watching television - while caring for a spouse.

You have to contemplate if all in all, this marriage is worth saving to you. I feel that if you spent enough time doing fun activities, things could improve in terms of your positive feelings toward eachother but I find it unlikely, that at his age, he will drop his independent behaviour, love busters and become a deeply empathic person.

I meant to quote AND respond, but somehow just quoted. So deleted that post

Thanks for the advice Sugar Cane. I guess when I used "validated," that wasn't the right word. I don't want to be told I'm right and he's wrong, just that my feelings are not asinine I guess lol

Well I have definitely done that first step to a big degree, most of the time I remember to use feeling words, and am not sweating the small stuff (I just put dishes in dishwasher, pick up socks, etc.). I just really want some time with him - that is where I am still having a hard time demanding, more like begging. I just want that undivided time without the other things getting in the way. Like he does on game night. But I should be able to be better at that too, because I don't like to feel unwanted and feel my wall going up. I will just do my own thing when UA time doesn't happen, instead of mentioning it. Did it 20 years living alone (even when I had boyfriends) lol I also need to never fight back - I have a hard time not responding to anger/things said sometimes, but I have gotten so much better.

So sad he would divorce me over games. That truly breaks my heart, but I knew it. I used to feel like the most important thing in the world to him. He would travel so far to see me and stay so long (we were long distance for a time).

I will say though, we talked last night and made up and he kissed me tonight before he left to play. A real kiss. Maybe he did hear something

Thank you so much, NewEveryDay! I will definitely go check that out!! Appreciate the help so very much!

happyheart, thanks for your reply! Minus the kissing/making love thing, things really do seem good when there isn't an argument. We laugh and have fun together, the time we actually do spend together.

That's the thing - I am not demanding in that way. His mom was coming and we previously went over a list and I even removed some stuff he didn't find necessary. We had agreed to do those things and even WHEN to do them. The grocery store that night was a wrench in said plans lol I will definitely check out the article though. Thanks again!

In addition to all the wonderful advice SugarCane has given you. How much UA time would you say you get a week?

Have you read The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention

Unloved,

I'm very unhappy that what I wrote was interpreted by you like this. I think it was because I put so much information into one post, but you seem to have taken the absolute opposite message from the one I intended.

Dr Harley would never advise someone trying to do his programme to "not sweat the small stuff", if that means to learn to accept that some things are objectively "small", and thus should be tolerated or ignored in the interests of harmony. In fact, the programme requires exactly the opposite, which is that each spouse should identify the annoying habits of the other, and the one with the annoying habit should rigorously work to eliminate the habit.

Dr Harley identifies the way in seemingly small annoying habits can erode the love bank over time. If what seems like "small stuff" to the spouse doing it, is experienced as irritating to the spouse on the receiving end, this slowly (and sometimes quickly) empties the love bank. If the annoying habit has been mentioned a few times and the annoying spouse does little about it, or worse still, shows their own annoyance back, or gets angry or defensive - if they ultimately refuse to make a sustained effort to unlearn the habit), this is the same as that spouse saying "I don't care how you feel", which will always have a detrimental effect on the marriage.

A Marriage Builders marriage is the total opposite of an "I don't care how you feel" marriage. When I read other marriage forums, I see people writing in saying "my wife does not like something I do...should I change this?" and posters chiming in saying "that's her problem. It's not your problem to fix how she feels. Just go about your business." Sometimes they say "it's not your job to make your wife happy. She needs to find her own happiness. She has co-dependency, and that needs to stop." A Marriage Builders marriage is dedicated to making one's spouse happy - to filling your account in their love bank and to keeping it filled. And this takes work. It does not happen by accident or coincidence. It requires actively doing things that make your spouse happy and positively rejecting doing things that make them unhappy.

Your husband's attitude (as he described it on his own thread) is that he cares about your happiness to some extent, because he knows everyone needs to make adjustments in marriage, but he does not care to the extent that he will do anything not to hurt you, and will do anything to avoid the withdrawal of love bank units.

When, after you've told him a few times, he leaves his dishes on the side of the sink instead of putting them in the dishwasher, and throws his dirty socks on the floor, he is saying "I don't care that this offends my wife. It doesn't offend me, and I will carry on doing it." Not only is this repulsive (dirty socks on the floor? WTF? Your home isn't a pigsty), but it disregards the fact that YOU find it repulsive. It says "I know that my socks are smelly and disgusting, and that stuff should not be dropped on the floors in a civilised home. My wife can pick up my crap even though I know she finds it repulsive." That's disrespectful of your feelings. Over time, you will resent the message that you are a servant who should pick up dirty things and not complain, and you will resent the fact that he does not care how you feel.

Dropping socks and leaving out dishes are simply habits. They can be unlearned by rigorous practice, and by accepting being reminded every time he forgets. He should not resent your telling him that a habit displeases you; he should be positively grateful that you care about your marriage and your feelings towards him enough to complain.

My last post was getting far too long.

Please go back through your husband's thread and read what I posted to him about UA time. I really don't want to go back and cut and paste it onto here. The summary is that Dr Harley absolutely supports your need for "undivided time without other things getting in the way". That is one of the critical things that will make you fall in love and stay in love with your husband. Of course you don't want to feel unwanted, and he should care that you feel that way, and put a stop to that. And Dr Harley would prefer you to divorce rather than "do your own thing when UA time does not happen instead of not mentioning it." As I said, I am horrified that this is what you think I was saying in my earlier post.

You accepted that UA time did not happen during 20 years of living alone - but you did not get married to feel the same loneliness within it as you felt when living alone. We don't get married to accept loneliness. We don't get married to learn to meet our own emotional needs, as other forums tell people to do, and which in fact, this makes no sense.

When Dr Harley uses the term "emotional needs" in his programme, he is talking about the needs which, when they are met well, make one person fall in love with another. He is not talking about the wide variety of "needs" that we have that, when met, make us feel contented or happy. He is not talking about the "need" for peanut butter sandwiches (his example) or even for affection or conversation - needs that our friends can meet, or even a dog can meet.

I've seen other forums in all seriousness tell a spouse to get a dog to fulfil the need for affection that a wife refuses to fill. A dog can indeed fill the need for recreation and affection. Getting a dog might help someone survive their way through an unaffectionate marriage. But having a dog to do those things can't help someone fall in love with a spouse that won't do those things - and Marriage Builders is about creating romantic love between spouses. It is not about surviving one's way through an unfulfilling marriage. It is not about meeting your own needs - finding recreational things to do on your own, treating yourself to a spa day and lunch instead of longing for a date with your husband - it is about having those needs met by your spouse, so that you will be in love with them.

From what you've said about your having talked and made up yesterday, before he kissed you and left you to game, your husband is slowly succeeding in getting you to accept his need to game without you. You want to be with him, but he is succeeding in making you accept that the price for not fighting - because he will fight you on this - and the price for peace, and the price if you want to get a "real kiss", is that you'll be a good girl and accept that he has the need to spend a critical period of time doing things that you do not want to do with him. He said specifically that he will divorce you if you don't let him do that, and you seem to be giving in to him to avoid fights and a divorce.

You should not think that anything that you wrote in your reply to me is based on anything I passed on from Dr Harley to you. It is the complete opposite of the message I was trying to convey.

I don't know whether you came to the conclusion to let things go, from the socks and dishes to the gaming, because of what I said about not fighting:

By "not fighting", I was in no way suggesting "not insisting". I was not suggesting that you stop asking for what you need, or that you should stop complaining when things are done that you do not like. You need to complain about what upsets you in your marriage, and you need to keep complaining until the behaviour changes. However, you need to do so respectfully, without fighting.

Remember I also said

I took those words from several posts made by Dr Harley on the subject of POJA and independent behaviour in the private forum, where people who have done the online course can post directly to him for advice. Dr Harley never advocates putting up with something that makes us miserable in marriage, just to stay married. Dr Harley NEVER advocates that we stop complaining, and if the complaint is not addressed and makes the complainer miserable, he advocates ending the marriage. And we know that this is easy to say, and that a woman is unlikely to walk out over socks and dishes when she has dependent children who need their father. Dr Harley talks about how hard he has found it to get a woman to leave an abusive husband, even when that abuse is terrible by anybody's standards - but he does not recommend compromising one's mental health by ignoring and tolerating abuse and neglect out of fear of separation.

I got the words that a spouse should be grateful for complaints - they help him or her to correct the upsetting behaviour - from a radio show that played this week.

The warning I gave you was about how to complain, not about complaining itself. The warning was against fighting. Fighting destroys a marriage because it destroys love bank units.

Those words are from a post by Dr Harley in the private forum, too.