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Originally Posted by Darkguy
Read through my old thread. I’m currently re reading Surviving Affair. I encouraged my WW to as well. The affair is over, been snooping and installed the spyware. Haven’t seen anything yet. Thanks for your advice, I will post anything that happens from here on.
Did she write a no contact letter?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Can you tell us what you’ve done from this list?

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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All those are complete, we are currently working on spending more time together. She filled out a emotional needs questionnaire as well. I put her response below any input would be appreciated.

1a. 6 Great need for affection
- Three times a week
- Neither happy nor unhappy
- Neither happy nor unhappy
1b. 0
- No
- No
- Help with problems, courtesies, planning
I need a lot of help around the house and planning events that work around my schedule. Be understanding of my time and space.
2a. 5
- 1-2 times a week
- Unhappy to engage in sexual fulfillment
2b. -1
- No
- No
- A Understand each other sexual response
Planning and communication turn me on; unfortunately, you don't do either. You lack foreplay. Foreplay for me is being adventurous and hanging out with me or trying new things.
3a. 5
- Three times a week
- Somewhat Happy
- Neither happy nor unhappy
3b. -3
- No
- Use conversation to get to know, develop an interest in favorite topics, avoid angry outbursts, avoid dwelling on mistakes, time of day for discussion, give undivided attention.
I need conversation because that's the number one thing that attracted me to you. Knowing that I can't have a pleasant or detailed discussion about our values and needs makes me feel that you don't have my attention. I enjoy talking about how I can please you or sending you freaky messages, but I don't know. I enjoy having someone on the same level of sexual desires as me and hope to discuss them in person.
4a. 6
- 2 – 3 a week
- D Unhappy
- D Happy not to engage in reactional companionship

4b. -3
- No
- No
- A & B
I would like us to have mutual hobbies to feel like friends hanging out. Also, they helped and engaged in planning activities with me and trying new hobbies.
5a. 6
- C
- A
5b. -3
- A, C, D
I need you to share plans even if it works; knowing your schedule can help plan activities. I hated when you pressured me to hang out with you, and you didn't see how tired I was. When you don't understand my schedule, I feel left out. I also hate when you get mad about not hanging out places, and then the next day you want to do something not know I have a crazy schedule (it's beyond frustrating)
6a. 4
- B
- C
6b. 0
- Physical hygiene, Fragrance, physical fitness, and weight
I'm happy when I know you are physically working out or trying to improve your physical appearance. I hate to say the past few years, but it seems like you don't care anymore; there's the time when you smell terrible, and I feel like you can care less. I love Fragrance and don't have any fragrances that remind me of you. Your appearance can be embarrassing sometimes because it seems as if you let yourself go. I'm always trying to impress a person who sometimes doesn't care about his appearance.
7a. 6
- C
- A
- C
7b. 0
- Family budget, work travel, choice of career
I feel like I have to rely on you for financial support. Sometimes I feel trapped when I know that I'm financially relying on someone who can cut me off at any minute. I want us to understand how to budget together, I feel that you spend money how you want to, and I'm the accountant managing the money. It is tough when you don't have support and large purchases.
8a. 6
- A
- A
- B
8b. -1
- Household maintenance, housing cleaning, household shopping, childcare, family calendar.
I need all the support, just having the time when I come from a 12-hour day at school, the last thing I want to do is clean. It warms my heart when I can go home to clean the house. Family calendars help feel involved and know what is happening next. I love our home; most of the damage is from you, and nobody ever cleans it up but me. I hate screaming and telling grow people to clean up. But look at me, that's what I'm doing now smh
9a. 6
- A
- D
9b. -1
- Family Time 2 – 5 hours weekly
- B
- C
- Family Outing 2 month
- E
Having family commitment is very important for me to stay organized and happy. It makes us form a connection with our family. It also brings us closer as family,
10a. 6
- Everyday
- A
- C
10b. 2
- No
- Yes
- A, B, C, n D (going on planned dates)
I believe that you admire me more than anyone I know. I will love that if you put want you to admire by into physical actions.

Admiration
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Affection
Family Commitment
Domestic Support
Sexual Fulfillment
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support

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She has told you a number of very valuable things. Some of them are rather shocking to me, because it appears that you don't have a problem doing things that are repulsive to her (" there's the time when you smell terrible, and I feel like you can care less"). If that's true (that you can care less about personal hygiene or anything else on her list), what kind of message do you think that has been sending to her all these years? Do you think it's a message of love? But isn't love the message that you want to send?

Do you want her just to stay with you and not break up the marriage, or do you want her to be in love with you? If the latter, what are you going to do to achieve that state?

Rather than asking for us to walk you through her answers, why don't you work them through and tell us what you intend to do, today, about her desires. You have long struck me as being a bit lazy, coming here to be told what to do (and in fact not coming here nearly often enough) when you have the same access to materials, including your old thread, that we do, and should have read enough, and listened to the radio show enough by now, to know what actions produce positive results.

Start with the first thing on the list.

"- Help with problems, courtesies, planning
I need a lot of help around the house and planning events that work around my schedule. Be understanding of my time and space."

What specifically can you do here?

I note that she mentions help round the house both here and when talking about household maintenance. It's obviously very important to her and she feels let down by your lack of care about how exhausted she is. I'm sure that this questionnaire isn't the first time that you've heard this from her. Why has this been going on so long during your marriage, and what can you do about it today?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I fixed this problems prior to the affair. She wants a divorce. I told her I don’t and I won’t initiate it that she can. She’s probably having another affair.

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Originally Posted by Darkguy
I fixed this problems prior to the affair. She wants a divorce. I told her I don’t and I won’t initiate it that she can. She’s probably having another affair.
Are you going to confirm if she’s having an affair? If she is having an affair, will you divorce her?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I haven’t found anything other than she back on the app she used before and won’t let me see her phone. Yea I think I’m done, at least that’s what I feel about it right now. She’s packing her stuff and moving out. Think I may need to see a lawyer. She was spouting all this talk about me being controlling and gaslighting her.

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Originally Posted by Darkguy
I haven’t found anything other than she back on the app she used before and won’t let me see her phone. Yea I think I’m done, at least that’s what I feel about it right now. She’s packing her stuff and moving out. Think I may need to see a lawyer. She was spouting all this talk about me being controlling and gaslighting her.
Make sure you protect yourself. Have a recorder running when you are communicating with her and document EVERYTHING.

Where is she moving to?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,650
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Darkguy Offline OP
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Recorder is on me. I’m not sure, she blew up on me via text message. Her mom called her and expressed support for our marriage. She claims she’s filing for divorce in two weeks. Which makes no sense has she will be going to France for a study abroad program. I spoke with a lawyer and will pay the retainer next week. She is now in the guest room while I’m in the marital bed. Today I’m working with our son to clean the house and get some tacos.

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Tacos were good, my and I had a talk about the current events. Sad day in Texas. I exposed WW affair to our family and friends, she got mad and texted me a long fog filled message. She stated she hates me and that she had the affair and in the same paragraph stated it was over, blah blah blah. Usual WW stuff. I spoke with a lawyer today, he stated I can get her out of the house because I have a son and we do not share any children together. After reading the newly betrayed spouse thread on the forum, I've decided against this. I want to attempt to save my marriage. I've decided to Plan A until she actually leaves. I had very limited interaction with her today. She has been shut in the guest room stating she wants a divorce and will file in two weeks. My gut says she is bluffing, and I will call her on it. Unless you fine folks say otherwise, so I am in Plan A. Every time she brings up the idea of divorce, I either change the topic or state that I want a loving marriage between us where all our needs are met. I've been working on myself and started back exercising and lifting weights as the weather is warmer now. I have some questions:

1. She is scheduled to go outside the country for five weeks for college. Do I take her to the airport as we agreed prior to this mess? For what I know OM won't be there.

2. Do I file for divorce, while in Plan A? Should I separate our finances as well? I know the general consensus is to not kick her out of the house.

The initial shock and anger over my situation have subsided. I am ready to fight for my marriage without fail. Thanks for your advice.

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Who is the OM? Is he married or have a GF? How did she carry on the affair? Do they work together?

You need to expose the affair on the OM's side. Do you know his parents and/or siblings?

Did any of your family and friends contact her and put pressure on her to end the affair?

Also, have you thought about contacting Dr. Harley?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Joined: Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Who is the OM? Is he married or have a GF? How did she carry on the affair? Do they work together?

She’s not employed at moment. She just graduated college. OM is a younger college student. I don’t have enough information on him. I know he had a GF but now. He still in college. She used Snapchat and lies about studying at the university to meet up with him. She claims it wasn’t physical and she just wanted to see if she could get him to like her. We all know that’s a lie.

You need to expose the affair on the OM's side. Do you know his parents and/or siblings? Still digging for this. I just have a first name and phone number.

Did any of your family and friends contact her and put pressure on her to end the affair?

Yes. She was very angry and sent this long message.

I recover from the affair you didn't recover from the affair. I can't don't anything about that. I don't want anything to do with you. I don't feel safe around you and don't make me happy. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this, you cry and text the whole world and tell everyone I cheated. Instead of talking about how you influence Seifer to troll your own online you decided to flip the whole issue about me cheating. That's what gaslighting is, instead of me feeling about you and your doing. You found a way to make it about it to you. You're going down the same path you did with your ex-wife. Instead she just straight up left, I can't see why. You are controlling, a manipulator, and a vocal abuser. You may not think that but I do. If I can't tell you how I feel without you talking about me cheating then I'm done. I knew you were going to do this and you use that to control me. The crazy fact is the only reason I talk to him is to learn how to get his attention. To the point I hate you. You are everything I thought you wouldn't be. I don't want to be here and I don't want to work on our relationship. Whatever I say I will forever be labeled as a cheater. I don't want to be around a group of males who don't have any respect for females. I hope you find someone just like you.

Also, have you thought about contacting Dr. Harley?

I thought about this. Will get on it ASAP.

Last edited by Darkguy; 05/25/22 08:57 AM. Reason: Quotes
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WW is talking about joking the military. We talked about it before I discovered the affair. I am set to retire this fall from the military myself. Typing an email to Dr. Harley now. I don’t think my odds of saving my marriage are in my favor at this point. Worked out at the local gym with some friends of mind. Was a good diversion. Any ideas on how to engage her for a Plan A? She’s given me the silent treatment.

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And what is your plan to be able to do Plan A while she is away for 5 weeks?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Darkguy, usually there is a history of good points in the marriage, not least of which might be that the BH is the father of the kids. A WW can be compelled to think about the best interests of her children before breaking up their family.

You're not in that position with your very sad history of loss, about which I am very sorry. This must have been devastating for you both.

What good points about your marriage can you build upon to win your wife back?


BW
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Plan on talking to her via email, text and phone calls. If she accepts them, right now she's cut me off emotionally. I cook dinner she won't eat it; I try to engage in small talk, and she tells me to leave her alone. I feel really hopeless about the whole thing. I want her to be in love with me again but it's not looking too good.

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One of the good points of our marriage is how she and her family accept my son. She is a really good mother to him before all this. We have the same values and were meeting each other needs. We would spend about 30 hours a week together. When we had the miscarriages, we helped and healed each other through the pain of loss as well. She is my best friend and I never thought this would be the state of our marriage. I learned from my past marriage and corrected those issues. After reading Surviving the Affair (for the 6th time) again I see the reason for this is her horrible boundaries. I am constantly hit on by women at my job, I would tell her about it and how I shut it down. This wasn't reciprocated and led to this. This feels like my last marriage all over again but worse.

She is in a deep fog and looking for a way out of the marriage despite my efforts and those around us. I know my WW and if she wants something she will move hell and high water to get it. It's one of the qualities that attracted me to her to begin with. Unfortunately, it might be the downfall of our marriage. I am Plan Aing my butt off and doing what she will allow me to do. As you may have read in the message, she sent me and what she spouted out to me on Sunday was that she doesn't believe I care for her. She also hit me with the I love you, but I am not in love with you line. I know it's an affair and I know how it will end for her. In the end all I can do is Plan A and control me. Any advice on saving our union is and will be greatly appreciated.

On another note, she is medically unfit to join the Air Force due to some medical issues she has. I have a VAR on me and another in the car she drives. I have also retained a lawyer for my sanity and protection. DS is upset with her and isn't interacting with her at all. Should I push him to talk to her and interact? Or leave it be. She stated that we (son and I) don't want her here and it would be better if she left. More fog talk, I haven't emailed Dr. Harley yet. I plan on doing that after this post.

Last edited by Darkguy; 05/26/22 05:50 PM. Reason: Added more information
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I emailed Dr. Harley. Interacted with her for a little. We talked about current events, it was short. Asked her if she would like a sandwich as I am making some for dinner she said no. I asked her what she would be eating for dinner and she said I don’t know. She always forgets to eat when she’s stressed. She chuckled at one of my jokes and quickly hid it. This is the worse, feeling really hopeless about my marriage right now.

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Originally Posted by Darkguy
I emailed Dr. Harley. Interacted with her for a little. We talked about current events, it was short. Asked her if she would like a sandwich as I am making some for dinner she said no. I asked her what she would be eating for dinner and she said I don’t know. She always forgets to eat when she’s stressed. She chuckled at one of my jokes and quickly hid it. This is the worse, feeling really hopeless about my marriage right now.
That's good that you emailed Dr. Harley. Please let us know what he says.

I was reading back through your thread. What have you done to change the things that she complained about? How are you making progress on that? When does she leave?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Darkguy
One of the good points of our marriage is how she and her family accept my son.
That's not really the kind of thing I meant. That is a good point to you, but I'm looking for the things about you that made her happy.

I know she was good to your son, but don't believe she married you for your son. If she were to describe it, what would she say she loved about being married to you?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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