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I've lost about 15lbs so far and switched up my cologne that I wear. She sent that to me after the initial discovery of the affair back in January. I have been planning dates, but she hasn't been going on them as she was busy with school. We recently went out of town as I had a business trip and took DS and WW with me. She enjoyed it as well as DD. I've been helping out more at the house. I walk the dog, clean the bathroom do the dishes and cook four times out of the week. I've been spending more time with DS as well. I set aside about two hours of my day to speak with her in regard to IC. She was very receptive of it. We made a family calendar that we put all of our appointments on. We also sat down and did a budget together. I've bought new clothes as I lose weight and my old ones are sort of baggy. Everything was going well until the second discovery of contact with OM.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by Darkguy
One of the good points of our marriage is how she and her family accept my son.
That's not really the kind of thing I meant. That is a good point to you, but I'm looking for the things about you that made her happy.

I know she was good to your son, but don't believe she married you for your son. If she were to describe it, what would she say she loved about being married to you?

Sorry SugarCane, my brain is elsewhere. She loved the fact that I had a steady income and ambition. Right now, I am retiring from the military and pursuing my RN degree. Eventually I would like to be a Nurse practitioner. We talked A LOT and held like interests and values. Our family dynamic outside our immediate family were similar as well. We both are nerds and enjoy anime and comic books. She liked the fact that we traveled and spent a lot of time outside of the city we lived in. She loves to be admired as well, when we met, she was struggling in college, and I helped her out when I could. She also loved my intelligence; it was a huge turn on for her. She stated on numerous occasions of how nice I am and the fact I give her massages. She is more of an introvert, and I am an extrovert to some extent. I was able to get her to come out of her shell in public places has she had anxiety issues. We had each other's phone passwords and were open and honest with each other. We freely spoke of our past relationships and what issues we had in them. She also liked video games and loved watching me play them. We are also both cinephiles and love movies. I also had her back and was her biggest cheerleader.

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Found out there’s another OM not the one I originally thought. She also has an affair phone. Second OM is out of town while first is in town. I’m planning on meeting with the first one after the holiday. Trying to get information on the second. Seems WS is planning on meeting him while she’s overseas. She wants to look through his phone to make sure he isn’t lying to her and isn’t cheating 😑. I’m not funding any affairs so I moved all the money to another account.

Made some burgers for National Burger day. WW didn’t want any. She’s holed up in the guest room watching videos about relationships. Trying to justify her actions I guess. Went on a bike ride with DS. Enjoyed myself and kept my cool on this discovery.

Last edited by Darkguy; 05/29/22 05:05 AM. Reason: Added more information
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I'm so sorry to hear this.

So how many affairs (that you know of) has this been since the start of the marriage? Is it 3?


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
I'm so sorry to hear this.

So how many affairs (that you know of) has this been since the start of the marriage? Is it 3?


Two, one I initially found out about and this ongoing one.

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Thanks to everyone that responded. I really appreciate your advice and support.

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How did you find out about this second affair and the affair phone?

How old is your wife, and how old are you?


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I’m sorry you found this out. How did you find out?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
I’m sorry you found this out. How did you find out?


Snooping. As any good spouse does. Don’t want to reveal methods.

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
How did you find out about this second affair and the affair phone?

How old is your wife, and how old are you?
Originally Posted by SugarCane
How did you find out about this second affair and the affair phone?

How old is your wife, and how old are you?

I’m 41 and she’s 29. I have my ways, rather not say here.

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So with such a short marriage and she’s had multiple affairs no one would blame you to divorce her. What are you going to do?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Darkguy
I’m 41 and she’s 29. I have my ways, rather not say here.
She was 24 and probably at her most desirable, and she married an older man with a kid. Within 2 years she has an affair, and then another.

I don't know that she was ever as invested in this marriage as you were. She certainly seems to have fallen out of love quickly. I don't really see what there is to keep her there now, after 2 affairs.


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I’m going to Plan A as I was told by Dr. Harley and hope for the best. Continue to snoop for information for the divorce proceedings. That’s all I can do. I meet some of her complaints that she allows. You all are probably right about her intentions. I plan on filing for divorce when she leaves.

I’m better news had a fun karaoke party with DS. We sung all our fave songs while WW sat miserable in the guest room. She came out one time to get her clothes. Looked miserable and upset. Maybe she felt left out? I invited and she said no.

Last edited by Darkguy; 05/29/22 08:35 PM. Reason: Added mor information
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Originally Posted by Darkguy
I’m going to Plan A as I was told by Dr. Harley and hope for the best.
When did Dr Harley say this? Of course, Plan A is his standard advice for a man during an affair, if he wants to save his marriage. However, Dr Harley also takes into account the broader context of the marriage, and gives his opinion of the likelihood of success. Did he give you an opinion on that?

Regular posters like to read as much as his advice as we can, so that we can advise other people in similar situations. Would you mind telling us what you wrote, and showing us his reply? We would be grateful.


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From 24APR21



ME: WS,

I am shocked and saddened by the events last night. I feel hurt and disrespected. I would like a marriage were we could both air our complaints without shouting, disrespect and demands. In order to fix this, we both need to refrain from these actions. I apologize for anything I did that contributed to this. I should not feel fear when I let you know what complaints I have with our relationship. I will no longer tolerate the disrespect, selfishness or demands. I also expect the same from you; together we can get past this and improve both our lives and mental wellbeing. Us fighting doesn't solve anything, it just leaves me sad and hurt. I attached an article (please read) that may explain what we are going through, I would like to use this program to repair the damage to our marriage. I cannot do it alone as it takes both of us.


Love,
Me


WS: I enjoy receiving random emails or love emails, even though they're not necessarily happy emails. Anyways, I read the attachment article. I have no idea what you want me to do. I feel misunderstood, confessed, lonely, and a failure right now. I have no idea who you are, and what you want out of this relationship. I feel misunderstood when I express my feeling; or not taking seriously. I'm confessed because I try to de-escalate the situation. It makes me feel like I'm failing because I'm walking away from a problem I can't fix. I'm on medicine; I go to two different therapy; I'm in a club where I can meet people. I feel like I'm doing so much change that it's not doing anything. I don't know what to do. If my personality is too much, then I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm trying, but it's not fast enough for you. Overall, I like the article, but maybe it's time for you to seek counseling for yourself. I can't help our relationship if you have a personal problem that may be affecting you. What we have is toxic; I believe nobody deserves to be in a toxic relationship.


P.S. I love you, but I'm falling out of love with you.


ME: My question is what actions should I take? I am confused and frustrated, she hasn't talked to me since and I fear we may be getting divorced. We are currently in marriage counseling. Thanks in advance for your help.



DR.: You will have a repeat of that experience again in the future, so think carefully about how you would handle it in the future. Your wife gets upset because things are getting chaotic, and she expects you to calm things (and her) down. But instead, she gets even more upset as things are not calming down through no fault of yours. At that point you have to make choices to make your situation simpler and more manageable. If you had to do it again, what would you do differently? Wait for children to arrive! Chaos will always be just around the corner. Once you have thought it through, try to explain to her how you would have handled it differently. Hopefully, she will also see how she contributed to the problem. The major take-away is to never fight with her again. Regardless of what she says to you, don't raise your voice or express any judgment toward her. But at the same time, you don't have to do everything she tells you to do.



From 24JAN22


Good Morning,


I regret what I did, and I feel like a failure to live. I know it is a mixture of feeling depressed and ashamed by my action. I wish that I could have more support from others and comfort. I feel like I'm always left behind or last to know about things. I also think that I have to fix everything, and sometimes I wish others would take control of the situation. Yes, I am terrified of your emotions; it takes me back to childhood when I was afraid to tell my mom anything because of her reaction. I feel like I am always walking on eggshells; I feel like I'm going to [censored] up or [censored] up something if I dont fix it. It's similar to surgery high stress, but you have to find a way to fix the problem while being understress. I know your hurt, and I apologize for hurting you and everyone else. When I do something wrong, everybody hates me, and I feel like the whole world knows and nobody can look past my mistake.
I dont like this relationship at all right now. I have to fix a problem that I dont know how to fix. This relationship has made me so weak and tired because of all the physical and mental work I put in. I was depressed this morning because I had a semi-free day yesterday; I knew today would be crazy. Yesterday I ended up doing everything that I wish I had help doing, like cleaning, walking the dog, taking DS to school, making appointments, grocery shopping, work, and doing school work. But I wanted to enjoy a day where I dont have to do any of that stuff. I believe that a relationship should be a bonus, not a problem. This is a problem, where not satisfied and I'm not happy. I can't keep feeling like this and waiting for you to fix the problem, I've been waiting and waiting, and I get the results. I'm tired of planning; I'm tired of feeling alone, I'm tired of pretending like deep love each other when you dont satisfy me anymore, and I dont satisfy you anymore. Why keep trying if the things I ask for you dont want to do. All I'm looking for is someone who can engage, plan, and explore with, and we dont do that without me saying something. If you can't give me what I want, how can I help you with your needs? I thought my needs were simple, but I guess I'm too adventurous for my relationship. I feel like your stopping me from my passion for being adventurous. What you said on 21st still haunt me because you can quickly feel comfortable kicking me and making me feel like a horrible person. I lost a lot of respect for you, and our home is now your home because I dont feel welcome or wanted there.
I dont have faith in this relationship simply because you're just now working on it, and I gave up months ago. Hoping that you will plan more activities with me, hoping that we will talk about our feelings more, hoping that we will find hobbies together, and hoping that we fall in love again. I kept getting nothing but anger or being called sensitive. What I learned in the relationship is that you fooled me while we were in Columbus. You dont listen to me, stop talking to me, stop comforting me, and stop sharing your feelings with me. I love you, and I want you to be happy and loved by someone who enjoys you for you.


Thanks Kindly,
WW


DR: Your wife's email reflects a person who is looking for an escape. Your anger is definitely a problem for her, but some of the other things she mentioned should be considered. "I don't have faith in this relationship simply because you're just now working on it, and I gave up months ago. Hoping that you will plan more activities with me, hoping that we will talk about our feelings more, hoping that we will find hobbies together, and hoping that we fall in love again. I kept getting nothing but anger or being called sensitive."

Her letter reflects a woman who is stuck, but isn't considering a reboot of her relationship with you. If I were to talk with her she would probably tell me that she is looking for a way out. However, that being said, I would encourage you to never bring up her affair again, avoid being judgmental of her even in small matters, try to do some fun things together (that she would find fun), and try to help her with some of the things that she feels are a burden to her. You have every right to divorce her for what she did, and she probably deserves it. But if you want her to be your wife, you must consider her to be your most valuable treasure, someone that you live for, and will turn your whole life around (especially with being angry and judgmental) to accommodate her reactions to the way you interact with her.

Dr. Harley


The question was answered on 24JAN22 on the podcast. I still want my marriage but I need to file for divorce to protect myself financially. Found out she has pictures of me and DS in the guest room where she is sleeping and a majority of anniversary, birthday, and just because cards as well.

Last edited by Darkguy; 05/30/22 11:02 AM. Reason: Added information/removed names
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New email from Dr. Harley in regards to my marriage.

Me: Good day,

This past Sunday I found out my wife has been secretly in contact with the other man after I initially found out about it in January. Since then, I have kept my anger in check and been in Plan A. Everything was going great, we went on trips, dates and spent a lot of time together. However, we haven't had sex since the discovery of the affair. We did a no contact letter and followed the checklist from the Surviving Affair book. In March I found out she had reactivated her Snapchat account without telling me. She stated she needed to use if for college and her extracurricular committees that she's in. I told her I was against it and she got angry, instead of fighting her I left and came back. Everything was calm and I explained to her how she shouldn't be on the social media app as it hurts me and the affair could start back up again. She stated she blocked the other man and everything was ok.

Two months later, I am still in Plan A. My needs weren't being met but I made a Herculean effort to meet hers. After some light snooping on her phone, I found out she was contacting him again. She went out to walk the dog and was messaging him and talking to him with video chat. When she returned, I asked her again to please delete the app and social media account because I knew she was talking to him again and how much pain it caused me. She became irate, screaming that she hates it here (our house) how I am emotionally abusive and controlling and how much I must hate women. I asked her to please calm down and lets talk this out rationally without all the emotion and she got louder.

At that time, I left the house to cool off because I was getting mad myself and didn't want to have another angry outburst. I was in the middle of cooking dinner as well. I let her know I will not engage in an argument with her and that I will be leaving and I would return when I felt it was safe. I was gone for about 20-30 minutes, when I got back I finished cooking dinner and our son (she's a stepmom but my son calls her mom as we've been together for almost six years, one dating year and five married). She refused the plate I offered and stated she wanted a divorce. I let her know that I want to work on our marriage and that I demand the affair stops. I also stated that she is more than welcome to start a divorce as I wouldn't. The next morning, I called off of work as I didn't sleep much that night. She moved into the guest room and packed all her clothes and put them in there with her.

I spoke with a lawyer about what my options were. He stated that since both our names were on the house, we would have to sell it. We don't have any kids (had four miscarriages that were less than one month) or any other joint property. He stated I should stay in the house and don't leave unless I am in fear of physical harm. He also stated I should drain the bank accounts and open a new one so she doesn't take all the money. Do I do this? I am torn as this isn't very Plan A like. My Plan A is non-existent as she will not let me meet her needs. She gives me the silent treatment and has been sitting in the guest room since Sunday. I am about to retire from the military in September and my command has allowed me to take leave until then as they are aware of my marital crisis. I exposed the affair to my father, brother and closest friends and on her side, her mom and sister. They are both allies for our marriage.

Tuesday her mother called her and let her know she should stay in our marriage and work on it. This made her livid and she sent me a long text message (please see below). I responded with I don't want her to leave, and we can work together to have a loving and respectful marriage. She stated she will be filing for divorce in two weeks. She recently graduated college and is unemployed. I am the breadwinner and I have supported her financially and mentally through her four years of college.

She is scheduled to go to France for a college study abroad program. She has to fly out of a city that's three hours away. I am supposed to take her, at least that was the original plan. Do I still take her? We have a joint account, and she was to use money from it while she was overseas, do I still allow her access? I do not know much about the other guy other than his first name and phone number. I still want my marriage and wish to work it out but right now I feel hopeless. She was denied entry into the Air Force and is now working on an exit strategy. Thanks for your time and materials regarding marriage, you all are awesome!

1. Do I continue Plan A or transition to Plan B while she's away?
2. Do I keep supporting her financially?
3. Should I take her to the airport for this trip or leave her to figure it out herself?
4. Our son is avoiding her like the plague, do I encourage him to interact with her?



My Wife's message:
I recovered from the affair you didn't recover from the affair. I can't don't anything about that. I don't want anything to do with you. I don't feel safe around you and don't make me happy. I don't know how many times I have to tell you this, you cry and text the whole world and tell everyone I cheated. Instead of talking about how you influence your son to troll your own online you decided to flip the whole issue about me cheating. That's what gaslighting is, instead of me feeling about you and you're doing. You found a way to make it about it to you. You're going down the same path you did with your ex-wife. Instead, she just straight up left, I can see why. You are controlling, a manipulator, and a vocal abuser. You may not think that but I do. If I can't tell you how I feel without you talking about me cheating then I'm done. I knew you were going to do this and you use that to control me. The crazy fact is the only reason I talk to him is to learn how to get his attention. To the point I hate you. You are everything I thought you wouldn't be. I don't want to be here and I don't want to work on our relationship. Whatever I say I will forever be labeled as a cheater. I don't want to be around a group of males who don't have any respect for females. I hope you find someone just like you.



Dr: I read your latest email to Joyce. Joyce and I would be willing to talk with your wife, but I'm not sure she would be willing, nor would it do much good. She has nothing to lose by leaving you (you paid for her education, and now she can get a job to support herself). I've counseled other men whose wives did the same thing and after divorce the husbands thrived while the wives, in spite of being educated, did not do very well for them.

Overcoming anger is a huge benefit to you and any other woman you will eventually have in your life. Anger never solves anything. It only makes the problem more difficult to solve. But telling your wife that you will never divorce her only gives her greater freedom to take advantage of your good will toward her.

To answer your questions:

Get your attorney's advice on all of these questions.

1. Do I continue Plan A or transition to Plan B while she's away?

I think that it's time for plan B.

2. Do I keep supporting her financially?

Ask your attorney how you can avoid supporting her. With her education out of the way, she should be able to support herself.

3. Should I take her to the airport for this trip or leave her to figure it out herself?

Let her figure it out for herself.

4. Our son is avoiding her like the plague, do I encourage him to interact with her?

No. She will no longer be a factor in his life.

Again, if after you go into plan B, she has second thoughts about your marriage, Joyce and I would be happy to talk with her.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley



I will start the divorce and go into Plan B after she leaves.

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Thank you for posting all these replies.

I was about to say after I read the first two that Dr Harley was giving you advice with only some of the picture. You did not appear to have told him how young your wife was, nor that you had a child and she had none - in other words, that she is young and free. You also did not know in January that she would have another affair, so he could not advise you with that knowledge.

Now I see that he is in fact advising Plan B when she leaves, and he does not hold out much hope for recovery. That's what I suspected he would say. I'm sorry.

When did he send you this last email?


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Thank you for posting all these replies.

I was about to say after I read the first two that Dr Harley was giving you advice with only some of the picture. You did not appear to have told him how young your wife was, nor that you had a child and she had none - in other words, that she is young and free. You also did not know in January that she would have another affair, so he could not advise you with that knowledge.

Now I see that he is in fact advising Plan B when she leaves, and he does not hold out much hope for recovery. That's what I suspected he would say. I'm sorry.

When did he send you this last email?


I sent it last Thursday. I appreciate your condolences. Unfortunately, the hood doctor is right. I plan on doing Plan A and then B when she leaves.

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Thank you for sharing what Dr. Harley advised. How soon is she leaving to go out of the country?

When will you be contacting a lawyer? Are you going to go no contact when you’re in Plan B? Are you going to be able to hold to that?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Already talk to the lawyer. I will see her tomorrow. She leaves in June. Coming up soon.

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