Thank you Marcos,

As the affair has abruptly stopped - she barely uses her phone - I will adapt the narrative. Explain the love bank principle followed by saying she had a boyfriend which is not ok and was very hurtful for me and the kids. She met him at her old job.

Followed by your second paragraph plus ask them to support us to reconnect and bring love and harmony to our family.

No, I'm sorry, but I think this is a terrible exposure narrative.

They are kids, for heaven's sake. They are not going to understand what you mean by the "love bank", and they don't need to be taught it.

Dr Harley uses the concept of the love bank so that ADULTS can visualise the principle that everything you do, good or bad, has an effect on your spouse. This isn't an explanation that children need to explain their mother's affair - it is too obscure.

As marcos advises, you need to tell them that Mummy has found a new boyfriend and that this is wrong, because you are married. When you get married, you promise not to have boyfriends or girlfriends for life. You MUST get across to them that having a boyfriend is wrong and it hurts you, and it hurts them because Mummy wants to leave and be with her boyfriend. That would be very sad for you and for the kids.

Your account, as well as being technical and therefore baffling to them, is also trying to avoid saying that Mummy is doing something with another man that hurts the family. You are trying to avoid saying that she is doing something wrong. You are making a great error in trying to be neutral about this - that Mummy "fell out of love with Daddy" and in love with a co-worker - and what does "without knowing was in love with him" mean? How could she not know she was in love with him? Are you trying to say that she didn't realise what she was doing?

You're making this far too difficult, and I believe you are stringing it out because you don't want to do it. You don't want to expose to OMW because you don't want to upset your wife, so you are running a simple email past your counsellor hoping that she will talk you out of it. Why run it past her? How many ways can there be to say "I'm really sorry, but your husband is having an affair with my wife"?

And you don't want to expose to your children because you don't want to rock the boat at home, and I'm not convinced that you intend to do it. We have given you the "exposing to children" thread to read, and instead of using the common phrases from it that people here have used over the years, you're posting long-winded, technical gobbledegook for us to rephrase.

Stop being scared to do the exposure job that needs to be done. You need to expose to right now protect your kids and give them a chance of having a happy family.

I do get your point. I will send the email to the OMW tomorrow.

The affair seems over - my wife has indicated to work on our marriage tonight… she said that I have been a good father the last two months… she is though pretty empty and needs also time for herself. She also mentioned that if I show the love busters behaviour as before, she will leave.

We agreed to identify activities she likes and I join her. The only issue with exposing to kids is that it is now in the past… will it not upset her even more?

Please advise!

Expose to your kids.

I agree. Exposing to Children

Dear all, I will expose for sure but the recovery context is important.

Dr Harley wrote on Mon Jun 18 2012 (shared by Pepperband) the following which I find very insightful:

My position on exposure to children has been consistent over the years for a host of reasons: Tell them about the affair as soon as you discover it. The primary reason for this type of exposure is that they should know eventually anyway, even if the marriage is on the road to recovery, because it gives them accurate information about what their mom and dad are going through.

I MISSED THIS OPPORTUNITY IN JANUARY/FEBRUARY.

If the marriage is headed for recovery, the unfaithful spouse is usually willing to go along with the revelation. But if the affair is still ongoing, or if the recovery is not very solid, the unfaithful spouse will resist the exposure, and become very upset when it's made. Then, it's especially important to expose the affair to the children because it generally speeds up the death of the affair. Affairs don't always die a natural death, but exposure speeds up whatever would have happened without it.

I WILL RECEIVE TODAY THE BOOK SURVIVING AN AFFAIR. I WILL SHARE IT WITH MY WIFE AND DISCUSS THE RECOMMENDATIONS (END THE AFFAIR, CREATE TRANSPARENCY, EXPOSE TO CHILDREN). IF SHE RESISTS I WILL DO IT ANYWAY AND SEND OFF THE LETTER TO THE OMW.

From the first part that I highlighted:

"they should know about it eventually anyway, even if the marriage is on the road to recovery, because..."

They should know about it anyway, even if the marriage is on the road to recovery.

If you believe that your marriage is on the road to recovery (and I don't; not yet) the children should know about it anyway.

Dr Harley does not say, and does nor imply, that if you did not expose the affair as soon as you discovered it you "missed this opportunity".

Most people discover Dr Harley some time after the affair comes to light, and it is highly unlikely that they have already done the things he recommends. He is talking about the ideal situation, where people are in a position to use his concepts from the start. However, for the many who did not know what to do and discovered him somewhat late, he is not saying "too bad: you missed the boat". He doesn't say that with any of the steps. In fact, he takes people back through the steps so that they correctly do the things that they didn't know they should have done.

From the second part that I highlighted:

"if the affair is still ongoing, or if the recovery is not very solid, the unfaithful spouse will resist the exposure, and become very upset when it's made. Then, it's especially important to expose the affair to the children because it generally speeds up the death of the affair."

IF you are in recovery (and I'm convinced this is wishful thinking on your part), your recovery is "not very solid". Your wife has not recommitted to your marriage, and I know from the many stories I have read here, and from my own, that she will go back to OM in a heartbeat if he contacts her. She has not rejected him. She is desperately hoping that he will come around and realise that he wants her, and not his wife.

So, since this recovery is "not very solid", it is especially important to expose the affair to the children.

I will say that it's okay for you to reject Dr Harley's advice. It's your marriage, and if you belief that exposure will be harmful and thus you won't do it, that's your choice to make. Just, please, don't come here asking us to sanction your attempts to be selective with Dr Harley's words and distort what he says, and what he means.

It's tomorrow. Did you send it?

Dear all,

I very much appreciate your help and persistence. I really do!

Dr. Harley addressed yesterday my questions in his radio show… here the summary:

03/03


As the OM seems not to be an immediate threat, should I really reveal the past affair to the OMW. The letter is ready, yet I prefer to wait in case any contact takes place again.

-> Letter is optional, not essential part of the plan for recovery. It has altruistic value (especially only if own marriage is going well). It might end the marriage of the OM and OM might continue relationship with my wife again. Yet if contact occurs between your wife and OM reconsider sending letter.

I do not want to pressure my wife, yet I really want to start the process described in ’Surviving An Affair’… how long should I wait? Especially 'end the affair’ with a clear message and 'create transparency’ to build up trust.

-> You can suggest the book to her. Say that it helped you a lot to understand the situation. The book talks about what your wife is going through. In the meantime, have dates with her... do not leave her alone too much, as she might contact the OM.

Finally, the recovery is still at its infancy… I know I need to be gentle, yet I read that ‘If the marriage is headed for recovery, the unfaithful spouse is usually willing to go along with the revelation.’ Should I wait before I ask her for revealing it to the kids? What should I do if she asks for more time or objects?

-> The kids should know one way or another. Usually exposure recommended while affair is going on. Still recommend exposing it afterward. In your particular situation, you might want to wait a while and then discuss with her how important it is for you to be revealed to them.

It's great that you did as we recommended and wrote directly to Dr Harley for help. We always appreciate hearing his advice applied specifically to cases on the forum.

Dr Harley has given you his advice, and you should do exactly as he says. Nobody here will countermand him.

Dear all, I want to give you an update after 8 days.

I exposed the affair to my kids (son 13; daughter 11) last Wednesday... I must confess that I did not plan it.

I was helping my daughter for her upcoming French exams and noticed that she had a lot of knowledge gaps. I asked her why she had never asked me for help the past few weeks. She responded that she did not want to bother me with her issues, as she saw me often being sad. Her response triggered me to open up. I told her about the affair, how hurtful her mother’s actions were to me, how much I tried to keep my sanity, integrity and how much I focussed on looking after my kids during this time. How much I loved them, my wife and my family. Her initial response was to just hug me... it was so comforting and her maturity surprised me. She told me that she knows of so many unhappy marriages in her school, yet she wishes that we both find our love again. She guessed who the OM was. My wife introduced him to them during a conference call. We discussed the concept of falling in love and falling out of love… it made sense to her. She noticed that my wife and I rarely kissed and hugged each other, now flowers, no cards, not much affection. She understood that we both needed to change and praised my change. Such a mature girl. I was so proud of her. The next day I opened up to my son... well, my daughter had prepared him while they came back from school. She apologised but I was not angry. He was much more reserved.

Both wish that my wife and I find our love for each other again. They understand that mommy and daddy need time alone. My son is more introverted, he does not want to talk about it… he does not want a divorce and asked me to ‘work it out’. At first, my wife was angry about the exposure, but I told her that I want a fair, loving relationship that is based on honesty and trust… which includes the kids who love us both. She swallowed it. My wife had some chats with them, told them that what she did was not right (well she has not said this to me). My daughter let her mum know that daddy still loves her, yet she recognised that her mum is doubtful/undecided.

My wife seems not to have any contact with the OM. She sometimes says that we need counselling to work on our relationship, yet she refused to consider reading the book ‘Surviving an Affair’ when I left it on her pillow with a note last weekend. She seems sometimes hopeful and sometimes hopeless. She mentioned to the kids that I was very kind to them and to her the past two months. Yet once she told me whether she can really trust the ‘new husband’… she seems also still afraid of me and it appears that an internal fight is going on in her head to open up. I really feel good about my change. My kids are very happy and praised me. I asked them to show their love for their mother.

The past week, I have noticed that my wife’s foggy status is slowly ending. We went out twice (pub choir and gin distillery tour with dinner), yet the time is not enough to bond… we both work, the days are short and the weather is crap for recreational activities. I am nice and kind to her. I must confess I am rather impatient… I would love to read with her ‘His Needs, Her Needs’ to understand and address her emotional needs and ‘Surviving an Affair’ to kickstart a true recovery. Not sure how to get this started... how much time should pass. In the meantime, my daughter told me that she still has the phone number of the OM. She is determined to convince her to delete all info. Any advice on how to proceed is highly appreciated.

A discussion about commitment to recovery escalated to being controlling (exposure to kids.) this morning. In the heat of the argument, she admitted to have contacted the OM last Thursday. This was devastating news. We agreed to give each other space. I am now contemplating contacting the OMW and the OM’s HR division.

You need to contact the OM’s BW today. This should have been done. She is going to continue her affair with him. Contact with the OM, means the affair is still ongoing. If you expose to the OM’s BW then there will be pressure put on both sides of the affair.

When will you be exposing to the OM’s BW?

Just did!

Good job! What did his BW say?

Does your WW know?

She called me up and we had a good chat. Indeed she did not meet his emotional needs (sexual fulfilment and recreational companionship)… and was unaware of his affair until he told her about the affair at the same time like me. The OM did not really cooperate in marriage counselling - they only had two sessions. As he kept on having contact with my wife, she asked the OM to leave. He lives now at an Airbnb…and Is short of funds. His friends do not recognise him any longer. I suggested to her to try Dr Harley’s books. She also is aware that this relationship is geographically unrealistic and pure madness… she is a high earner like me and my wife cannot leave the kids. We agreed to support each other. I will suggest to her our marriage counsellor, who is pretty unconventional but proved successful in rattling my wife. Unfortunately, my wife does not trust her any longer.

My wife heard my chat with the OMW and I had a heated chat with her that got calmer tonight - mostly about the control issues like hiring a private investigator, contacting the OMW, the wish to consider recovery rather than divorce or the OM. The kids witnessed us yet were good in supporting us. The presence of the kids keeps us together. We agreed to give each other space. My wife is without hope she says, yet she will consider marriage counselling. I suggested to consider Dr Harley’s books and maybe some online counselling. We called also my mother in law… she would love to help. All is very fluid… I need to step back and I wish her recovery expression is genuine.

Has she sent a NC letter to the OM and blocked him on everything?

We all asked her to do it. We will remind her together tomorrow - primarily my son and my daughter. I might ask my kids to also call the OM to leave her alone. The OMW cannot be that helpful I guess. I will chat with her tomorrow.

My wife hates any sign of control from me. She also noticed that the marriage certificates and birth certificates are missing. I guess she checked them as I rejected her when she admitted that she still had contact to the OM over phone. I told her that she ‘lost me’. I believe she is afraid of me filing a divorce. Indeed the petition is complete in Germany, yet has not been submitted. It might take a few weeks till it arrives in the UK. I am conflicted whether I should send it to rattle her. The kids see that she is depressed… my daughter understands that divorce is only a threat and that the favourable German divorce law might safe our house, my son does not want that I initiate it. Yet my wife could file a divorce in no time in England with a worse outcome for the kids… the loss of the house and their known environment. Not sure if I should initiate it.

My wife disliked my last update to Joyce Harley for the radio show. She prefers to have a private session with Marriagebuilders rather than a publicly shared one. She sent her a email with this wish. Further, we have agreed to not share the same bed for now. My wife shares our master bedroom with my daughter tonight. It is a crazy situation.

Hello PerPan,

You are doing a good job on exposing to your kids, MIL, and the OMW. But you mentioned above OM's HR. Can you remind me, is he a colleague of your wife? Why would you hesitate to do this? It seems that could put even more pressure on this and perhaps wrap it up once and for all. Exposure should be a tsunami and done as fast as possible, and not bit by bit. That could just let her anger continue over and over again.

They both used to work at the same company. My wife changed her job beginning of the year. They saw each other only twice this year - the last time 2.5 weeks ago where I hoped for her to say goodbye… but without any meaningful outcome.

She feels now pressured and cornered as the kids know and she does not want to leave them … she mentioned that she has no hope… and I fear that she might develop longtime resentment… so we need professional help. We agreed to the following:

She will cut contact to the OM - I have asked her to read with me the 10 pages about surviving an affair in the book ‚His Needs, Her Needs‘ and the to do list for ending an affair in the book ‚Surviving an Affair‘… I expect that she will not like the way to say goodbye to him and the measures to secure no contact and build trust. But it needs to be done.

She has started professional counselling to help with her traumatic experiences (childhood and marriage). She had her first session yesterday.

I have agreed to get professional help to control stress and anger (love busters). I will meet a counsellor at my job today to discuss options.

After that, she said that she will then consider marriage counselling. Dr. Harley has offered support over email and I will try to convince her to attend professional sessions too.

I would like to start marriage counselling now (I am very impatient which does not help in this delicate situation), but I think that agreeing to the therapy sessions before marriage counselling is a compromise. I am contemplating asking this question to Dr. Harley. What do you think?