Ok, I owe my Husband an apology (see my earlier thread - "I'm hurting so badly - I can't do this anymore"). My husband has just called me from the airport to say he was sorry about the earlier situation and that he has a taxi receipt to prove he took a cab. He said he couldn't tell me earlier because she was there but that he loves me very much and he will miss me. He said he was under a lot of pressure from her and he was sorry I had to go through that ordeal of calling him with her there. He is a good man and I do love him so much. So, honey, if and when you read this, I am sorry I doubted you but I know you understand why. That phone call to me 5 minutes ago just lifted my heart so much. I love you so much. I am feeling so much better now and I know I can get through the next 10 days. The kids and I are going to have fun, although we will miss him, when he comes home to us, he will find a happy all-together family, not a depressed no-meaning family. Thanks guys for all the support. Just teaches me (again) not to jump to conclusions. I know you already told me that Desperado, you were right.<P>[This message has been edited by loveu (edited November 13, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by loveu (edited November 14, 1999).]

loveu's H...<P>Call her again tonight... tomorrow... and for the next ten days... many times! <P>Hang onto that receiver with all the love you have... and care for a woman who loves you more than life itself...<P>Find those words of affection she has missed... (practice if you must!!!)<P>This is woman isn't a prize... she is a treasure like no other...<P>God... love her with all your physical and mental and emotional might...<P>I'm praying for you to dig a little deeper into your heart and soul... find that really deeper feeling that brought you to her an her to you...<P>OW must... must... must... exit from any and all of your thoughts... immediately replace them with thoughts of <B>loveu</B>... her name says it all!<P>I don't want to butt into your personal conversations... but... keep her <B>love</B> for <B>u</B> and <B>u</B> for her <B>love</B>... <P>Jim

loveu,<P>SOOOOO happy for you!!!!!!<P>Roll Me Away

Thanks NSR for the kind words. They mean a lot to me.<P>Rollmeaway - thanks, I appreciate it!<P>It's amazing just how one phone call can change the whole way one feels. Thanks for being there!

loveu - this is great! He's one lucky guy! and you guys are definitely heading in the right direction.<P>Keep it up! <P>Lori

Loveu: Just read your post! Why are you apologizing to your husband? He calls you from the airport proving to you that he took a taxi instead of "her" driving him...he's been with her all afternoon...talking..NOT! You call him and she is there...and you are apologizing. Sorry, sweetheart, but I don't get it. Okay, he tells you that he loves you and that he will miss you while he's gone. So? You are apologizing for what? That you were suspicious? Your suspicions were real except for the ride to the airport. Also, you are sounding like when he gets back he will be moving back home. Where does this come from? Did he tell you so? Also, is he reading this post? You are addressing him.<P>Sorry, to sound so critical, but I have just spent this evening dealing with my wife in the same manner as yourself. I called her/our place and he answered. I hung up. After we had our "date" last week, she told me she loved me and too, that she misses me. I was encouraged. Feeling like you are today. Then, he answers the phone at my house! I am so damn angry tonight. Sorry, to be a downer on your happiness, but be wary. These betrayers have a way of manipulating us. So, if you are reading this Mr. Loveu, I hope you aren't playing both sides of the coin, as I suspect you are. Kind of like..if it doesn't work with my OP, then I still have my spouse on hold and I can take up again with her/him. Just tell them the magical three little words: I love you..to keep them hanging for a while longer until I decide which one I want. Take care, loveu....D.

Desperado voiced my thoughts as I was reading your post also, loveu.<P>Hang in there! But be cautious too!

Desperado - I understand where you are coming from and I am not sitting here assuming my H is coming home to me. I have been there too many times. All I was doing was apologising for jumping to conclusions regarding his getting to the airport. I know she was not there all afternoon since he was here for part of it and I know they had an argument for part of her visit. I am not naive, I am under no illusions. I was just apologising for saying things that were not so. I don't think I am wrong. I do have my head screwed on and I have been here so long that I am well aware of lies, deceit etc. All I wanted to say is that I know my H is a good man in a bad situation. I appreciate your concern for me though.

Loveu: Please don't think that I think your head is not on straight! I guess because we are in similar situations that I want to make sure that as you go through this journey that your eyes are open. I want to be able to see clearly myself and I guess I have a protective feeling towards you. We have been hurt enough. I am tired of being manipulated. Somehow, our partners think that saying "I love you" is a patch.... like patching a flat tire. That we will be able to drive a little bit longer...until "they" decide whether to buy a new set of wheels or not. But the road is too rough to go along with just a patch. Keep in touch..D.

Desperado - thanks for replying. Hey, I know you are just trying to protect me and I appreciate it so much. I would probably be saying to you exactly what you are saying to me if the tables were turned, so I do understand. My H has always told me he loves me so it is not just because he said that, it was more of a tone that I guess you can only understand when you have been with someone long enough. I know you can understand this and no, I am not setting myself up for a fall. I have no promises from him, I have no assurances from him. It is just the person I am I guess. I doubted him so I had to apologise. Hey, we are all human and as much as I would like to think I would never have an affair, I always say to myself, "there, but for the grace of God go I". No one is infallable. All I can do is to be the best person I can be to my Husband, my children and myself. I know where you are at though and I know how this looks to everyone else but, there are times, when I do believe him. Perhaps I am crazy to, but you know, I will survive. Hey, your thoughts and protectiveness mean a lot to me and I just hope your life gets into some kind of order soon. It sucks that we are all stuck in this time warp together. At least the sun is shining today (and for this part of the world that is a big, big plus!) Thanks again. loveu

I have been reading at this sight for business-related reasons for the past few weeks. I have seen hundreds of such couples in such situations as yours. What I think is important for people here who are stuck in a cycle of hope/despair is to acquire the knowledge that these are the natural occurances in any separation and pending divorce, not just in cases of infidelity. The focus here is too often on the other person's involvement in the situation, and less on the facts about the stages of the separation process itself. It is important to understand that a partner moving out is only the first step of the death of the relationship and the birth into a new life. Unless both people want out of the relationship, and often even then, you will see these periods of doubt and renewed declarations of love and then eventually, a return to the original position of the necessity of the leave-taking. The painful part is that this often leaves one partner with renewed hope, yet it is the hallmark of the initial stages of separation. You will understand why the period after initial separation (for whatever reason it occurs) is often referred to as the "off-the-wall" stage!<P>Leaving a marriage is a frightening experience. People often long to return to the "known" , to what unrealistically and again often temporarily is remembered as an easier time. They want to return to a place that often false remembrances tell them is easier than the upheaval they are experiencing at the moment. People will often try to return home at this time, or attempt to re-commit, usually only temporarily if they have already been to the point of physically moving out. They may make wild promises and grand declarations that rpove temporary. Often they do love their partner, even if they are not able to continue the marriage. Guilt can be overwhelming for the partner who has left, especially if there are children involved. Understand that the physical moving out is again the first step to the necessary emotional separation that follows, often in a wildly fluctuating manner. For the person who is left. and hanging on to hopes that are bound to arise, it is important to get professional help and the help of friends and family to help maintain a position of strength. Statistics show that once a partner moves out, the chances for a solid reconciliation drop dramatically. If a partner has made the drastic step of moving out, they are making an important declaration about their lack of desire to stay in a marriage. This seems obvious, but a fact that can get lost in the whirlwind of emotion. A person who has left is usually someone who must go.<P>A partner who has an affair is also sending an important message. An affair does not occur in a strong, healthy marriage. This is also an obvious fact that denial encourages us to lose sight of. Unfortunately, an affair is often the signal of an eventual divorce, even if reconciliation is attempted or even successful for a time. Marriages can survive infidelity, especially if the affair was of short duration, not a serious relationship, and if the partner regrets the choice and makes a wholehearted commitment to fixing the damaged relationship. There are always exceptions to this, naturally, but I beg to differ with Dr. Harley's numbers. Consider the important questions about the affair to determine if it was a cry for help. Was it of short duration? Was it a solitary event? Is the affair over? Is the partner willing to re-commit? Have the partner's declarations been consistent and reliable and backed by action? If the answers to any of these questions is no, the marriage may be terminal. Releasing a dying marriage can bring sadness, but untold health and relief to both partners. <P>What is most damaging is when a couple, or a member of such, gets stuck at any point along the stages of divorce that preceds stability: Preseparation, Separation, Transition Phase. Denial of the reality of the situation, getting hooked on high emotions, and misinformation about the stages can cause people to get stuck. Try to see and understand the partner's fluctuations for what they are. Set limits to what you will accept. Declarations of renewed love feel good, but the pain that follows can be a damaging set-back to growth achieved. If you are stuck in a cycle of hope/despair, stop the ride and get off. A person who has left will vacillate. Read the posts in here and you will see that people take a like path through separation and divorce. See it for what it is. Encourage professional help, and get it for yourself if you haven't already done so. Somebody must break the hope/despair cycle for new life to begin. Professional help can get you there.

Holy $%#@! Wow! Where did this come from? This certainly isn't our normal MB BS. I had to read this over a couple of times. I'm even feeling a little better. Renewed faith?? There was a lot of information...good information that I hadn't heard before or thought about. Question: reading here for business purposes? Checking his bio, he is a psychologist from L.A. So, is he using this site for a study? Loveu, what is your take? All I can say is "who was that masked man"...WHEW! D.<BR>

Wow!! All I can say in reply is that I checked out "Consider This'" other posting and strangely enough it was exactly as the same one above. In my opinion, I would assume it is someone reading for research purposes and would seem to have a standard answer to everyone's problems. I don't agree with a lot of what he/she says since they are basically saying that if there is an affair in a marriage then there is practically no chance of getting the marriage back again, so just move on and let go. Fortunately, there are a lot of people on this site to disprove that theory. I do believe in the MB principles and I don't think that just because someone makes a mistake in a marriage that the whole marriage should be thrown away. If that was the theory of life, no one would ever work at anything, basically if its not working throw it away, don't even bother trying to fix it! I believe in my marriage and I always will. My Husband moved out for 2 reasons. One was to stop the hurt to me and secondly because I asked him to. His affair is not all wine and roses, he seems to have more arguments there than with me at the moment. He has said over and over that he had never ever thought of leaving our marriage or me until he got into this mess. Anyway, that is neither here nor there. I am intrigued as to who you are Consider This and what your experiences are in this department or is it all just theory?<P>PS Just wanted to add that I have been getting professional help for about 8 months now and my H has been getting professional help for around 3 months.<p>[This message has been edited by loveu (edited November 14, 1999).]

Loveu,<P>Your comments about consider this were excellent. I agree.<P>Melissa<P>

Loveu: Looks like most of the crisis is over concerning the "Consider This" post. I did find some of what he said to be valid. How do we know how many others are out there lurking and doing studies on us, but not being quite as bold as CT? Oh, well..this is the Internet after all.<P>I also am going to counseling. Not so much as to get help with getting my marriage back together, but to get me back together. I find it extremely helpful for my ups and downs and especially for parenting issues, to be able to talk with someone who is not related or a friend. I also want to be able to make sure I stay somewhat stable throughout this ordeal since there is depression in my family.<P>If I am not being too personal, is this the first time your husband has cheated on you? This is the second time...that I know of...that my wife has cheated on me. (I'm a little ashamed to admit this.) Although I wouldn't put it past her to have done it more often as she is a big flirt. I spoke with her the other night and she too is having problems with "him". Frankly, when she tries to tell me about their problems and arguments I tell her that I'm not interested. Trying out the boundry setting that I am learning from my counselor. I have enough problems right now without hearing about the problems in the "love nest". Hope you are doing well and that you are enjoying your 10 days of freedom. Take care. D.

Hi there Desperado, thanks for your input. Yes, I have to say I was pretty mad with "consider this". Maybe he/she just rubbed me up the wrong way. I'm glad you are getting help for you, I would strongly recommend it. I was counselling through Steve Harley for a while and considered him to be really good but I felt I needed someone I could sit and look at and talk to so I now have a new counsellor and she seems really nice so far. Hey, I don't consider them as 10 days of freedom!!!! I miss him so much. But, I know what you are saying! I hate to admit it too, but this is not my Husband's first affair either. Although his first one was not sexual, it was emotional though. I did not know about it until this one came to light and then he told me about the last one which was about 7 years ago (seven year itch) hopefully, this one will pass as an itch too. How come some people have itches and some don't. Is it something in our makeup? I knew the person he had the last affair with too. It ended because she met someone else. He says, when she met someone else he was happy for her and realised that he didn't really love her after all. I just hope and pray that I am never ever in that position. I would like to be honest with you here though Desperado in that when I was 17 years old I did have an affair with a married man. I had no illusions of breaking up his family and it is something I am deeply ashamed of and it was well before I was married (not that that gets me off lighter). I knew he did not love me, but I grew up in a very dysfunctional family and no one in my whole life had ever told me they loved me and I felt that perhaps this guy did. I now see it for what it was but at 17 I thought perhaps he liked me. I was very very stupid and I sometimes think that what is happening to me now is as a direct result of what I did in my past. Why am I telling you all this, I don't know! I just feel like I should be honest on here and let everyone know that I am not perfect either. I have spent my life trying to make up for my mistake and I wish it had never happened. As far as I know this guy's wife never found out. He was my boss and I was scared and vulnerable (no excuse I know). I do know though that I would never ever go through that hell again. Thanks for listening. Take care. loveu<p>[This message has been edited by loveu (edited November 21, 1999).]

It seems as though the discussion on this thread is forgiveable versus unforgiveable sins, and solid boundaries versus changing boundaries.<P>When I confirmed my husband's second affair (second in three years of marriage, and yes it kills me to admit it), I laid down my boundaries. 1. He can never cheat on me again and 2. He has to come with me to marriage counseling. These are my boundaries. It is his choice now whether or not he wants to cross, but if he does, then he will have to live with the consequences: divorce. Because what he has been doing to me is emotional abuse and I don't deserve it.<BR>It of course helps that H broke off the affair, says he loves me, recommitted to the marriage, and expresses deep regret for his infidelity. <P>I'm not exactly sure why this thread got me riled up: maybe after CT's post, which seems a little harsh. If my H expresses regret for what he's done, is willing to work on our marriage, and comply with my requests, why should I not give him another chance? I fear that if I were to go forward now with a divorce, then I'd be forever questioning if I had tried hard enough to save something that could have been wonderful.<P>Oh, I don't know... It's all so very confusing. But at this point, I'm willing to forgive him, if he's willing to change.<P>I don't know if this is really related to this topic or not, but I just felt the urge to post. <P>Loveu, I just wanted to let you know that I understand how you feel, that going back and forth thing.

Hi Marlo, thank you for posting. I am so happy that things are working out with you and your Husband. I gues it is people like you that I was talking to "Consider This" about. There are a lot of success stories on here and I want to be one of them. If my Husband is really sorry for what he has done and really wants to work at our marriage, who am I to say, I don't forgive you. I will forgive him and just pray and work at our marriage so as this doesn't happen again. I believe life gives everyone chances. I have used up some of mine and my Husband has used up some of his but who is to say when the chances run out? Me or God? I know I certainly don't have the right so I guess it would be God. Thank you again for posting. I wish you well.

Hi Loveu, How are you doing? I've been out of town with my job and thought I'd better check in to see how you are doing on your "break". It is almost over. How did you make out?<P>The last time we connected you answered my very personal question to you. I am truly taken with your honesty. I have not had an affair, emotional (I seriously doubt there is such a thing) or otherwise. I admit I have sometimes thought "What's good for the goose is good for the gander", but I have not done so. I thought I could make my wife come back to me. I know now that this is not going to happen. Two years is long enough to try to change someone's mind, I think. I think also that I am addicted to this situation! I know others on this site have said that the betrayers are the ones who are addicted to the other person, etc., but I think us "hangers on"...especially those of us who hang on for as long as we have, are the ones who are the addicts. Our partners (ex-partners, actually)are in control of the whole situation. They are the ones calling the shots. I know that I experience a "rush" with any little chunk of hope she decides to toss my way. Just when we feel "high" on that hope, they take it away again and we crash. And we continue to hang on for their next dose of the illicit drug...hope! And time passes...2 long years for me. I have been addicted long enough. I am going to move on. I would even suggest though no one will want to hear this, that we are in emotionally abusive relationships. If you have ever read any books on the topic, we fit most of the criteria.<P>Sorry, to get on my soap box. Especially since I had a great weekend with my kids. We spent most of the weekend out with our cameras taking pictures. The next time they come over we are going to develop them in my darkroom. This is something we enjoy very much. What will you be doing on Thanksgiving? I said before that I am looking forward to having four days off. The children will be going to their mother's family. I am going to order in...do a little reading, relax and try to forget about things for awhile. You take care, loveu. D.

Hi Desperado<P>Thanks for getting in touch. Yep, my 10 days are almost up. My H comes home again tomorrow! (Well not exactly home, but home to his apartment). Wish he was coming home, but ah well! Maybe someday. I know what you are saying about the addiction thing and I did go through a time when I wondered about it. I read a book on love and addiction and in all honesty I did not see myself as being addicted to him. Glad to hear you had a good time with your kids over the weekend. I am considering taking a college course on photography as I have always had an interest in it but never did anything about it. Now that I am "finding myself" I would love to take a course and find a little more about it. The only problem being that the local college has its courses in the evening which is not good when you have 2 kids to take care of. Some day I will. I think the best job in the world is to be a photographer for National Geographic. I have had no contact with H while he has been gone which has been extremely hard. This is the man whom I have talked daily with for 18 years. We very rarely ever went through a day without one of us calling the other just to say I love you! Anyway, Thanksgiving! We (H, kids and myself) are going to spend it with two of the nicest people in the world. Our friends have invited us to spend Thanksgiving with them and H was happy to join us. The kids are happy he is coming as I am too! We are supposed to be going overseas for Christmas but it depends on what H is doing (and I know you are going to say that it doesn't matter what he is doing, I can still go overseas), but it is not as simple as that. Firstly, we are going to visit his family. Secondly, it is not right that the kids spend Christmas without their Father and thirdly, it is also my son's birthday on Christmas day so it would mean my H would miss his birthday too. My kids don't want to go without him so I don't yet know what we are doing. We do have the tickets but I guess I'll find out sometime as to whether we are going or not. I know, you'll say I'm a wimp and maybe I am but I have to do what I have to do. You know that only too well since you have been there so long too. Anyway, have a great Thanksgiving with your books and your take-out. Just going to play a game with the kids before bedtime. Take care.